Browse Forums Building Standards; Getting It Right! 1 Jul 16, 2014 12:26 pm Hi all, I apologize if this is yet another "frame overhang" thread but i thought that instead of continuing other people's thread with my problem, i could create another one which isolates my issue itself. Anyways... I'm currently building with at small volume builder and we are at the framing stage. At the moment, i see quite a few areas where the slab does not match the framing and thus has created some overhang issues. One of the main issues i saw was the front porch: As you can see from the first 2 pics, there is a large discrepancy between the framing and the edge of the slab rebate. The builder said that this will be filled will concrete. I'm fine with that. However, if you follow the border around the framing, you can see that there is more overhang and this extends to the left side of the porch quite a bit. The builder didn't see this as a problem and sounded like there would be nothing done about it. What do experts here think? Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ At the back of the house, the frame overhang is shown below... Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ This is at least 30mm overhang for a 90mm base plate. I brought this up with the builder. I told them that anything over 10mm overhang was a defect and not according to standards. I even provided them an excerpt from the "Guide to Standards and Tolerances 2007" document showing the following: Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ They told me that they follow the timber framing code of the Building Commission (BCA) and that there is nothing in there that specifically says anything about 10mm max overhangs. So from this, i figured they were telling me that they don't use the "Guide to Standards and Tolerances 2007" document and just thought that because it doesn't say 10mm in the timber framing code then the above overhang shown in my pics should be fine. They also told me that they spoke to a Housing Industry Technical advisor who said that a safe overhang is up to a third of the width of the base plate, i.e. 30mm. I have no idea where this 30mm value comes from! The builder further tells me that the diagram from the guide does not specify that the max 10mm overhang is "as per BCA". Is that enough to justify an overhang of at least 30mm? I would have thought that these guidelines were written for a reason and the fact that nothing is specifically mentioned in the timber framing codes suggests that the guidelines should at least be followed. Should i be concerned about this? I realize not all builds are perfect. But will frame overhangs like this be a problem in the future? I want my house to last at least a lifetime! I want it to be standing in 100 years time! If i can get things fixed early, it will avoid the greater cost of fixing it in, say, 10 years time. What do others think? Re: Frame overhang 2Jul 16, 2014 1:05 pm I cannot comment on the frame as it is not my area of expertise plus there are experts on this forum who can give the advice you need but I want to draw your attention to the "Guide to Standards and Tolerances 2007" being just that...a guide. It has no legal standing. The BCA is updated annually (May 1st) and Australian Standards are also updated. If you take your case to a builder and rely solely on the "Guide to Standards and Tolerances 2007" as your reference, you are at a disadvantage. There are some H1 threads that discuss the Standards and Tolerances guide booklet. You need current copies of the BCA and Australian Standards (expensive to buy plus they cross reference other Standards) to best argue your case or better still an expert inspector with a building background who is up to date with the regulations. Call up the cavalry! 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Frame overhang 3Jul 16, 2014 1:46 pm Thanks SaveH2O. Yeah i kinda figured those guidelines would hold no argument with the builder. It's just that i've seen so many instances here on H1 that says any overhang of greater than 10mm is considered defective. That word "defective" alone suggests something needs to be done, be it described in a guidelines document or an official standard. I didn't know the BCA was not freely available which is a bit of a pain. If the builder doesn't take any action, i'll definitely seek the services of an expert inspector. Re: Frame overhang 5Jul 16, 2014 2:12 pm The link below will interest you. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=71439 A lot of builders (and others in the industry) are not up to date with the regs due to the costs mentioned in the above link. The 12,000 annual sales of the BCA is a pittance when more than 200,000 building industry professionals need to know the latest regulations. What is the chance of your builder being fully conversant? The "Guide to Standards and Tolerances 2007" was produced by Standards Australia, a private company. As such, many people believe it to have a legal standing but it is nevertheless a good initial reference point. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Frame overhang 6Jul 16, 2014 2:33 pm Thanks for the link SaveH2O. It's quite disconcerting to discover the number of building professionals that don't have official copies of the NCC. Although $400 is a rather steep fee for such a document, you'd think that it would be a critical part of business and the cost would be greatly justified (as well as tax deductible!). The chances of my builder not being fully conversant is obviously something i cannot assume, but it is also something I can consider possible. It is unfortunate that the NCC is only going to be available for the 2015 version which will be all too late for me! Re: Frame overhang 7Jul 16, 2014 2:40 pm emjay68 If the builder doesn't take any action, i'll definitely seek the services of an expert inspector. There are few issues here 1 Frame overhang will also mean brick wall overhang (because brick cavity must be maintained) 2 How do you know it will be fixed correctly? 3 If your builder has no quality control over slab setout it is likely there will be other defects, perhaps serious and some you won't even know about. 4 It will be lot more difficult and expensive to fix your defects found later once they are built in. 5 Your build without expert independent monitoring has already hit the rocks. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Frame overhang 8Jul 16, 2014 3:42 pm I had a quick look for you in the BCA 2007, which is freely available as a pdf on the BCA website, since it is out of date. I couldn't see anything regarding your problem, but take a closer look for yourself. You can get the current BCA at public libraries. Good luck! Re: Frame overhang 9Jul 16, 2014 3:46 pm building-expert emjay68 If the builder doesn't take any action, i'll definitely seek the services of an expert inspector. There are few issues here 1 Frame overhang will also mean brick wall overhang (because brick cavity must be maintained) 2 How do you know it will be fixed correctly? 3 If your builder has no quality control over slab setout it is likely there will be other defects, perhaps serious and some you won't even know about. 4 It will be lot more difficult and expensive to fix your defects found later once they are built in. 5 Your build without expert independent monitoring has already hit the rocks. Thanks for the reply building-expert. Yes i was also inclined to believe that frame overhang will possibly lead to brick wall overhang. That is something i definitely want to avoid. You have made extremely valid points and i will definitely seek the services of an expert independent inspector. Re: Frame overhang 10Jul 16, 2014 3:46 pm akapacker I had a quick look for you in the BCA 2007, which is freely available as a pdf on the BCA website, since it is out of date. I couldn't see anything regarding your problem, but take a closer look for yourself. You can get the current BCA at public libraries. Good luck! Thanks akapacker. I'll see if i can find the pdf. Re: Frame overhang 11Jul 16, 2014 3:49 pm emjay68, what State are you in. I'm guessing Victoria. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Frame overhang 13Jul 16, 2014 4:14 pm akapacker I had a quick look for you in the BCA 2007, which is freely available as a pdf on the BCA website, since it is out of date. I couldn't see anything regarding your problem, but take a closer look for yourself. You can get the current BCA at public libraries. Good luck! Had a look at the 2008 documents and i couldn't find anything about frame overhang tolerances. I did however find that "Exterior masonry must not overhang more than 15 mm past the edge of the slab". So if the frame overhang leads to brick overhang then it should probably fixed to ensure the brick wall doesn't overhang past 15mm. Re: Frame overhang 14Jul 16, 2014 6:38 pm It ends up like this, very poor
http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/y342/jmfieldwork1/RECENT013_zps19a40c9b.jpg http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/y342/jmfieldwork1/RECENT013_zps21522b74.jpg Re: Frame overhang 15Jul 16, 2014 9:06 pm insider It ends up like this, very poor http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/y342/jmfieldwork1/RECENT013_zps19a40c9b.jpg +1 Yes very poor, how are you supposed to do your paving? Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Frame overhang 16Jul 17, 2014 11:03 am insider It ends up like this, very poor http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/y342/jmfieldwork1/RECENT013_zps19a40c9b.jpg Hi insider, can you please elaborate on the picture? I'm not very well versed in this industry and just cannot tell what's happening there, my apologies If i were to guess, the picture if trying to show a d0dgy job of patching up brick overhang? Re: Frame overhang 17Jul 17, 2014 4:19 pm emjay68
This is a bad case of brickwork overhang.They have tried to put extra mortar and used a piece of angle steel that is dyna bolted to the slab to try and support the brickwork. http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/y342/jmfieldwork1/RECENT012_zps392a8972.jpg http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/y342/jmfieldwork1/RECENT014_zps6723b629.jpg http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/y342/jmfieldwork1/RECENT014_zpsf0d75015.jpg http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/y342/jmfieldwork1/RECENT012_zps78527f0f.jpg Re: Frame overhang 18Jul 17, 2014 4:30 pm Photos also indicate bad site drainage. How bad was it? 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Frame overhang 19Jul 17, 2014 4:50 pm SaveH2O Photos also indicate bad site drainage. How bad was it? Everything about the site was pretty bad including drainge no temporary downpipes as well.Lucky it wasn't a h type clay but I would expect some movement in the future. http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/y342/jmfieldwork1/RECENT009_zps2505715d.jpg Re: Frame overhang 20Jul 17, 2014 4:57 pm insider emjay68 This is a bad case of brickwork overhang.They have tried to put extra mortar and used a piece of angle steel that is dyna bolted to the slab to try and support the brickwork. Geezus. This is extremely worrying to see. It seems the workmanship shows lack of time and care to fix the problem properly. That drainage issue is ridiculous. Out of curiosity, how is a build site supposed to be drained though with no paving? In the end, two pieces of treated timber (20mm thick) were bolted onto the joists and planed when there was too much sticking out. Passed inspection. 13 7823 Thanks Ardo, they are sort of semi concealed. I think it is only a few millimetres. I see if they can adjust the hinges. 4 3806 This is 100% true. You can not hang anything on steel frames. very frustrating 8 8052 |