Browse Forums Building Standards; Getting It Right! 1 Apr 02, 2014 10:24 pm Please help with advice on the construction of a landing at the top of a flight of stairs before my partner possibly makes a serious mistake in construction. Reno situation is this: They (partner and builder/handyman) are about to install steps to the rear door of the second story of the house (2nd level approx 2.4+m high). The steps will run along the exterior wall until they get to the doorway and where there will be a landing facilitating a right hand turn to the doorway. However, they intend to have the landing below the height of the doorway, so there will be the equivalent of one step up to the doorway. Don't know the exact height but I believe it will be about one 'standard' step. I am very concerned that this isn't allowable with a landing outside a doorway and at the top of a set of steps. Can someone advise on this? (it will be a relief if I am wrong) I've searched as much as I can to find building codes and came up with the necessity of having a landing of at least 750mm. However, it isn't clear to me whether a step up to the doorway would be permitted, or whether the landing and doorway must be on the same level, or with a minimum drop between the doorway and the landing. (Door opens inwards) Would appreciate any advice on this matter before they install it. Re: Advice needed about landings at the top of steps 2Apr 03, 2014 7:38 am Having a step down from the door to the landing is fine ( 190mm max ) as long as you also have a minimum distance from the door to the first tread of the stairs of 750mm ( BCA rules ). Stewie Re: Advice needed about landings at the top of steps 3Apr 03, 2014 9:54 am Peter Clarkson - AusDesign Australia www.ausdesign.com.au This information is intended to provide general information only. It does not purport to be a comprehensive advice. Re: Advice needed about landings at the top of steps 4Apr 03, 2014 1:58 pm Thanks very much for replying so promptly with those details Stewie. Sounds very encouraging that they will be doing it right. I wonder if you, or someone else might be able to clarify the interpretation of this rule and satisfy me fully that my concerns are unjustified? 'as long as you have a minimum distance from the door to the first tread of stairs of 750mm'. With the stairs as they are planned at the moment, you would exit the door onto the landing, do a 90degree left turn and there is the set of stairs. (so strictly speaking the first tread of the stairs would be closer to the door than 750mm ). However, with a landing of 750mm square or greater directly in front of the door with a max of 190mm drop onto the landing from the door, does this still fit within the code rules as it is commonly interpreted? Call me a 'nervous nellie' but I tend to see myself as the counterbalance to my (at times) cowboy renovators! Re: Advice needed about landings at the top of steps 5Apr 03, 2014 2:24 pm Sagasu Thanks very much for replying so promptly with those details Stewie. Sounds very encouraging that they will be doing it right. I wonder if you, or someone else might be able to clarify the interpretation of this rule and satisfy me fully that my concerns are unjustified? 'as long as you have a minimum distance from the door to the first tread of stairs of 750mm'. With the stairs as they are planned at the moment, you would exit the door onto the landing, do a 90degree left turn and there is the set of stairs. (so strictly speaking the first tread of the stairs would be closer to the door than 750mm ). However, with a landing of 750mm square or greater directly in front of the door with a max of 190mm drop onto the landing from the door, does this still fit within the code rules as it is commonly interpreted? Call me a 'nervous nellie' but I tend to see myself as the counterbalance to my (at times) cowboy renovators! That's an interesting question Sagasu & a situation that I haven't given much thought to in the past. My interpretation of the BCA would be that a 750 deep landing by the width of the doorway would meet the requirements. I would put the question to the building inspector who will be 'signing off' for his interpretation or failing that the Building Commission may provide a clarification. Peter Clarkson - AusDesign Australia www.ausdesign.com.au This information is intended to provide general information only. It does not purport to be a comprehensive advice. Re: Advice needed about landings at the top of steps 6Apr 03, 2014 9:18 pm Your description sounds similar to the stairs outside my laundry. I checked the size on the plan and it says the landing is 1580 x 900. I don't think my first step would be 750mm from the door, maybe that rule applies to when you come out the door and walk straight ahead? http://i1055.photobucket.com/albums/s507/grumblebum54/Landing_zpsd3bafed1.jpg Regards, Grumbles Re: Advice needed about landings at the top of steps 7Apr 03, 2014 9:25 pm It doesn't matter how big the landing is - it could be 15m x 5m but if your door is closer than 750mm to the first tread and there are three or more risers then it won't comply with BCA 3.9.1.5 Landings.
Also it doesn't matter which way the door is facing the stairs whether directly in front, to the left or the right, it is the distance from the door opening to the first riser that must be 750mm. Edited to put the diagram b logo in the picture. Yours doesn't either Grumblebum54 by the look of it. Stewie Re: Advice needed about landings at the top of steps 8Apr 04, 2014 9:49 am Just been reading this thread with interest, and wonder why so many houses that require a landing, are getting away with doing similar to the photo in grumblebum54's . Not being fully aware of the BCA requirements, I would read that council or private certifiers are accepting such situations as 'okay' because they aren't straight out from the doorway and/or they accepting that distance as being from the hinge side of the doorway (in the previous photo I'm assuming the hinges are on the far side of the door as we view it). Stewie, your image appears to indicate a landing where you walk forwards from the doorway straight down the stairs without changing direction. Not saying you are wrong, but that's how the diagram shows it. Just guessing here, perhaps the intention is to prevent someone walking straight out and stumbling down the stairs, but with a 'turn hard left/right', the landing area is still that standard width anyway. warning to others, I am not a builder/certifier, but just an average joe sticking his nose in. take what I say with a rather large grain of salt ! Owner Building at Jimboomba Woods in Logan City Qld. Blog : http://bandlnewhomebuild.blogspot.com H1 thread : viewtopic.php?f=38&t=68283 . Re: Advice needed about landings at the top of steps 9Apr 04, 2014 11:10 am Stewie D Also it doesn't matter which way the door is facing the stairs whether directly in front, to the left or the right, it is the distance from the door opening to the first riser that must be 750mm. Stewie IT doesnt say that. That's just your interpretation. BCA 3.9.1.3 states (h) Landings must - (i) be not less than 750mm long and where this involves a change in direction, the length is measured 500mm from the inside edge of the landing ; (shown in Diag 3.1.9.1.3 (a)) Thus i believe grumblebum54's landing is compliant. As Bpratt implies, a landing is an area where you land, ie step down onto and compose yourself for the next leg of the journey. (applicable to an infirm person, thats why we have this section if you think about it). Once you've stepped on to the landing, thats it. Having it longer then 750mm, especially in another direction, achieves nothing. Re: Advice needed about landings at the top of steps 10Apr 04, 2014 11:36 am That might be the strict ruling qebtel but apart from good building practice to have as big a transition zone as practical I have seen several stairs knocked back from certifiers when the distance has been less than 750mm which is why I usually reference the diagram I did. Quote: Having it longer then 750mm, especially in another direction, achieves nothing. Goodness me. That is just to illustrate the point that it is the distance from the door to the first riser that is important not how big the landing is. Also with internal stairs having no step down to a landing ( usually) the certifiers will definitely enforce the 750mm rule. Stewie Re: Advice needed about landings at the top of steps 13Apr 04, 2014 2:07 pm That's a new one on me although I did remember reading something about possible changes to the BCA a few years ago regarding handrails. A quick Google search found this http://www.arden.net.au/resources/artic ... rails.aspx " Let's review the key requirements of stairway handrails as specified by the AS-1428 Access and mobility code: Handrails must be installed on both sides of the stairs" Stewie Re: Advice needed about landings at the top of steps 14Apr 04, 2014 7:12 pm Hmmm... Bottom of that page has published date of 25-March 2011. Lots of photos with the same builder as mine (even the same design) last year that didn't have it. So I just happen to miss the cut off? http://seaview36atgeorgesfair.blogspot. ... gress.html http://myseaviewbuild.blogspot.com.au/2 ... ed-up.html I assume if I removing it after handover then the house won't qualify for occupancy certificate? What if I remove it after getting certified? Edit: found this PDF http://www.abcb.gov.au/~/media/Files/Do ... %20RIS.pdf 2 Provision, design for optimal height of handrails and balustrades • Background: - Handrails: The BCA does not currently require handrails in private stairways (i.e. stairways in Class 1 buildings and in dwelling units of Class 2, 3 & 4 buildings). The Monash Report noted the potential for injury if the anchoring function provided by a handrail is absent. In public stairways, handrails must be provided to both sides where the stairway is two or more metres wide. If the stairway is less than two metres wide, handrails (a balustrade with a top rail would be sufficient) are required for at least one side. The Monash Report noted the potential for injury if the anchoring function provided by a handrail is absent. The potential for Re: Advice needed about landings at the top of steps 15Apr 04, 2014 8:00 pm Handrail requirements were introduced in 2012. Peter Clarkson - AusDesign Australia www.ausdesign.com.au This information is intended to provide general information only. It does not purport to be a comprehensive advice. Re: Advice needed about landings at the top of steps 16Apr 05, 2014 11:05 am Great replies. Many thanks. Satisfied that having the step down (no more than 190mm) after exiting the door is fine and acceptable, which was the main concern. Looking at the diagram BCA 3.9.1.5 landings, it would seem to support the 90degree left turn on a 750mm square landing followed by steps as being within guidelines, as does quebtel's extract from the rules below. qebtel IT doesnt say that. That's just your interpretation. BCA 3.9.1.3 states (h) Landings must - (i) be not less than 750mm long and where this involves a change in direction, the length is measured 500mm from the inside edge of the landing ; (shown in Diag 3.1.9.1.3 (a)) Thus i believe grumblebum54's landing is compliant. Thanks too for the photo grumblebum54. A 'real life' example like that has further helped to clarify. Re: Advice needed about landings at the top of steps 17Apr 05, 2014 11:54 am Stewie D That might be the strict ruling qebtel but apart from good building practice to have as big a transition zone as practical I have seen several stairs knocked back from certifiers when the distance has been less than 750mm which is why I usually reference the diagram I did. I agree , but we arent talking about whats most practical, we are talking about minimum requirements of the BCA. The first diagram you posted (b) shows the cross section of a door, so it implies the 750mm is straight out from the door in the direction of forward motion. Note the wording used is "750mm long", this implies in one direction, not multiple directions. If you wish to imply that it also has to be 750mm from the door sill in any other direction, then in the absence of any directive or diagram showing that, you cannot make that assumption. For the OP, to extrapolate on this point, using my own experience, it is very beneficial to have as large a landing as you can build for the purposes of moving furniture in/out of a building. 750 x 750 landings really do not cut it from a house movers perspective. Stewie D Goodness me. That is just to illustrate the point that it is the distance from the door to the first riser that is important not how big the landing is. You misunderstand, I made this comment in view of the photo of grumblebum54's landing, and why the landing is not required to extend much beyond the door line. The 2nd Diagram (a) you posted explains this. Stewie D Also with internal stairs having no step down to a landing ( usually) the certifiers will definitely enforce the 750mm rule.Stewie Im sure they ALWAYS enforce it, but we arent discussing whether they enforce it, we are discussing the interpretation of the 750mm rule. See OP's original post. Re: Advice needed about landings at the top of steps 18Apr 05, 2014 8:24 pm qebtel For the OP, to extrapolate on this point, using my own experience, it is very beneficial to have as large a landing as you can build for the purposes of moving furniture in/out of a building. 750 x 750 landings really do not cut it from a house movers perspective. . Good point to consider. Thanks. Re: Advice needed about landings at the top of steps 19Apr 07, 2014 4:48 pm Over the weekend and today I have talked with a friend who is a town planner in the ACT, a local builder who I have drawn plans for who has Cert IV in building and a few other qualifications and a certifier that I have had a bit to do with over the last few years. I asked them all about their interpretations of the BCA laws re landings and they all said that under the strict definition that qebtel and others are correct. This was my interpretation below - 750mm in all directions from the doorway no matter whether you stepped straight ahead, left or right. Nice and safe. However according to the certifier he would have a lot of problems with this doorway and landing below ( despite it complying with the BCA ) and would strongly recommend changing the layout to move the first tread further to the right - the more the better. The TP friend and the builder said that the accepted wisdom in these circumstances varied from having the first tread two tread depths ( 600mm) away from the door to the width of the landing away ( an architect has suggested to him anywhere from 900mm up ). The TP's words were to the effect that the BCA is concerned with numbers and figures at the expense of common sense. This is what I would consider minimum - two tread depths away and it is starting to get close to my interpretation of 750mm all round. The second picture up is BCA compliant despite that it appears to be quite unsafe. Ironically the rules governing this are in the BCA under Part 3.9 Safe Movement And Access , Part 3.9.1.3 Stair Construction. If you want to build a set of stairs that comply with the BCA then do it as per the second drawing up. Just keep the First Aid box handy and your insurance policy up to date. Stewie Following these simple steps will help you mitigate unwanted costs, have your expectations met and give… 0 4542 Hi All, I engaged a tradie to install concrete retaining wall 600-800mm high over 32 meters in Victoria. Sleepers are 200*75*2000 mm installed over 17 steel posts. I… 0 6917 Building Standards; Getting It Right! Don't think they are designed for double brick. WA has a particular way of building and unfortunately that's the way a large amount of sills are finished. 3 7011 |