Browse Forums Building Standards; Getting It Right! Re: Damp proof course 61Feb 27, 2014 3:03 pm The plumbers have not followed (and probably not queried) the plan's garbled instructions and have used much cheaper pipe plus not checked compliance. Using cheap pipe is common on new homes and storm water non compliance is rife. EDIT: Given that 100 mm is stated on the plans, that is what you have most probably paid for. I would be demanding that they use 100 mm PVC SN6 DWV pipe. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Damp proof course 62Feb 28, 2014 12:04 pm Hi Save H20, I've spoken to the inspector who has talked to the plumbers. The plumbers intend to use 90mm pvc pipe because it is not part of the charged system. I've questioned the inspector about it but he doesn't seem to see a problem. What about the tank overflow pipe? Should I insist they use 100mm pipe there? Re: Damp proof course 63Feb 28, 2014 1:57 pm If you have paid for 100 mm PVC SN6, then that is what you should get. The fact that the plumbers originally did a non compliant installation using cheaper pipe doesn't justify them using the same pipe again. I believe that SN6 DWV uPVC pipe was the intended specification as the plans state class 6 which surely the designer could have only confused with SN6. 100 mm and uPVC were also stated. But...maybe the builder told them to use 90 mm storm water pipe and paid them accordingly...but that possible scenario is not your fault. Who knows? But then again, the install wasn't compliant with AS2200 and so 90 mm storm water pipe should never have been used in the first instance. It is compliant to use 90 mm storm water pipe subject to maximum flow rates as per AS2200 but what have you paid for and what were the plumbers paid for? There are standards regarding laying uPVC pipes in reactive soil and I believe that your soil is reactive. Is it? You can also discuss this with the inspector, particularly if they use the 90 mm storm water pipe. The tank is fitted with a 90 mm overflow outlet and for practical purposes, it is best to keep to this. The overflow capacity will be more than adequate for the roof area drained (but this isn't regulated anyway). 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Damp proof course 64Feb 28, 2014 2:14 pm Hi SaveH20, Yes we are on reactive soil so I will question the inspector about whether it is appropriate. Unfortunately, because the designer made a mistake with the specification of the pipes, I think I'm going to face the same argument we did when the builder substituted a Reece brand pump and autocontroller for the Rainbank and Davey pump. The designer had written "Rainbank pump" and the builder argued that he didn't need to supply it because it didn't exist. And he even sent us a letter from Reece justifying the substitution. I found that extraordinary. Why would Reece be bothered to provide the builder with a letter to justify not giving you what is in your contract? I've found this: http://www.pic.vic.gov.au/__data/assets ... round2.pdf but it doesn't say anything about the size of the pipe. To convince the inspector I'm going to have to find a regulation. Re: Damp proof course 65Feb 28, 2014 2:36 pm Liliana I think I'm going to face the same argument we did when the builder substituted a Reece brand pump and autocontroller for the Rainbank and Davey pump. The designer had written "Rainbank pump" and the builder argued that he didn't need to supply it because it didn't exist. People are often told by builders and plumbers that the RainBank is a pump whereas it is an automatic mains water switching device. It is a con. I could name a few well known builders who perpetuate this as the plumbing/water tank companies they contract are Davey agents. People are also told that they have to have an automatic mains water switching device when connecting a water tank to sanitary plumbing. Another con as above...unless you live somewhere like South Australia where they are mandatory because the Plumbing Code of Australia has been overruled by idiots. Unfortunately, I have to agree with you regarding your assessment re the impact of the designer's mistake in jumbling up the terms applicable to 3 different types of uPVC pipe. For what it's worth, a lot of plumbers either don't know or choose to ignore the regulations applicable to laying uPVC pipe in reactive soil but the inspector has to know. If not, then he needs to reference the regulations. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Damp proof course 66Feb 28, 2014 2:44 pm Liliana I've found this: http://www.pic.vic.gov.au/__data/assets ... round2.pdf but it doesn't say anything about the size of the pipe. To convince the inspector I'm going to have to find a regulation. You need to take precautions when laying pipe in reactive soil, it is ok to still use 90 mm uPVC storm water pipe but most self respecting plumbers wouldn't in reactive soils. Your pipes will also be buried deeper in relation to the original soil level because of the site scrape. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Damp proof course 68Feb 28, 2014 7:10 pm Liliana Lex, I could talk "plumbing" talk with you all day long! You're the only one who speaks in language I understand - "basic descriptease". I have to say that I've given up - now I just use "thingy" and similar highly specific and professional words to describe anything from slab to roof tiles ... I think I've forgotten almost everything I've learned about building My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Damp proof course 70Feb 28, 2014 7:15 pm SaveH2O You need to take precautions when laying pipe in reactive soil, it is ok to still use 90 mm uPVC storm water pipe but most self respecting plumbers wouldn't in reactive soils. Your pipes will also be buried deeper in relation to the original soil level because of the site scrape. I posted my last comment to you without seeing this. I don't think we have self-respecting plumbers. I'll have to try and convince the inspector. Re: Damp proof course 72Feb 28, 2014 7:41 pm Liliana We seem to be writing at the same time - we are in parallel universes. The universe is a vortex and the answer will always be 42. Liliana I don't think we have self-respecting plumbers. I'll have to try and convince the inspector. He might not appreciate you trying to convince him that there are no self respecting plumbers. I actually know some excellent plumbers but they are hard to find, don't advertise and are always busy. My adage is to never use a plumber that advertises. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Damp proof course 73Feb 28, 2014 9:05 pm No, I didn't mean I would have to try and convince the inspector there are no self-respecting plumbers! I was actually saying two things - the plumbers who worked on this house are not self-respecting and I will try and convince the inspector that I should have 100mm pipes. Sorry for the way it came out. Re: Damp proof course 74Feb 28, 2014 9:10 pm Liliana No, I didn't mean..... I know. Just kidding. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Damp proof course 75Mar 01, 2014 3:01 am Hi Liliana, I have linked some websites that show the various uPVC pipes. uPVC pressure pipe, DWV pipe and storm water pipe are made from the same material but the pressure pipe uses virgin material whereas DWV pipe uses uses some regrind additive. Storm water pipe has a lot more regrind added. You will notice the different classes of uPVC pressure pipe. The class ratings for pressure pipe signify their pressure rating, for example, class 12 is 1,200 kPa. The SN rating signifies the stiffness strength. Neither DWV or uPVC storm water pipe is pressure rated although DWV is much stronger than storm water pipe. 90 mm uPVC comes in different wall thicknesses but the one that plumbers commonly use has a wall thickness of 1.8 or 1.9 mm , giving it a SN2 rating. It is flimsy and cheap. You will notice that Vinidex also lists a 100 mm storm water pipe. You can get the 90 mm uPVC storm water pipe with a 2.5 mm thick wall (rating SN4). http://www.plasticoat.com.au/pvc-pipe.shtml http://www.iplex.com.au/iplex.php?page= ... =13&sec=86 http://www.vinidex.com.au/products/pvc-stormwater/ 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Damp proof course 76Mar 01, 2014 7:07 am SaveH2O uPVC pressure pipe, DWV pipe and storm water pipe are made from the same material but the pressure pipe uses virgin material whereas DWV pipe uses uses some regrind additive. Storm water pipe has a lot more regrind added. So it's the amount of regrind that determines its strength or lack of. I've had a look at 2.4 of the Stormwater drainage requirements of the BCA you sent so I can at least insist on Class 6 UPVC. Re: Damp proof course 77Mar 01, 2014 11:46 am Liliana So it's the amount of regrind that determines its strength or lack of. To a degree. Using regrind (same material) makes the manufacturing cheaper. Storm water pipe is cheap because it uses less material (thinner walls) and more regrind. The three pipes are different otherwise. The different classes (pressure rating) of uPVC pressure pipe depends on the wall thickness. uPVC DWV and storm water pipe is not pressure rated. Sorry for the confusion. Liliana I've had a look at 2.4 of the Stormwater drainage requirements of the BCA you sent so I can at least insist on Class 6 UPVC. The document I sent you is not a BCA document, it is an old (June 2006) document from a building consultancy group and it claims to present: STORM WATER DRAINAGE REQUIREMENTS– DOMESTIC PROJECTS (BCA Parts 3.1.2 and 3.5.2) Some of the clauses are now redundant or have been changed, I don't have the BCA regulations and so I can't comment further on the document's current accuracy. I am sure that one of the forum's building inspectors or builders will have a current copy and can comment further. http://www.agbc.com.au/forms/STORMWATER ... EMENTS.pdf I drew attention to 2.4 because it states: 2.4 Storm water drains shall be minimum 90mm Class 6 UPVC and have a minimum fall of 1:100 and 100 mm cover under soil and paved areas; The notable thing is that it states 90mm Class 6 UPVC. Class 6 is uPVC pressure pipe. If for some reason there is another 'Class 6' reference floating around somewhere in our parallel universes in relation to storm water pipe, I have never seen it. If there are two (or three) different 'Class 6' ratings to two (or three) different uPVC pipes, it would be an incredulous situation. uPVC pressure pipe is not made in 90 mm. Either the building consultancy group has wrongly copied the BCA text when preparing the document I sent or the BCA wrongly referred to 90 mm storm water pipe as class 6 at the time the building consultancy group's document was prepared. If so, it may still do so. If the latter is the case, then this is most probably where your building designer has copied it from. Whatever the situation, it shows either a woeful lack of industry knowledge by more than one party or an incredibly incompetent situation where there are references to at least two different class sixes pertaining to different uPVC pipes but such a situation existing is unfathomable. Unfortunately, I don't think that it will help your situation, it is more for 'added interest'. EDIT: Linked the document discussed. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Damp proof course 78Mar 01, 2014 1:26 pm Well if even building consultancies get it wrong, what hope do I have? I've scraped some more dirt away but still can't see any writing. This is the one they used near the rainwater tank though:
Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ I notice it does only have a thickness of 1.9. So can I stipulate the wall thickness I want? Re: Damp proof course 79Mar 01, 2014 1:38 pm It has to be in the contract. The plumbers are highly unlikely to pay extra for stronger pipe as already indicated. The designer botched it. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Damp proof course 80Mar 01, 2014 1:41 pm I've just looked back through my correspondence with the builder and I have found this: The main pipe (discharge pipe) that runs to the front is 100mm. Me: I understand that the discharge pipe is 100mm but what about the pipe feeding the rainwater tank underground? The plumber advised it's 100 mm as well. So that is clearly not true as far as this particular pipe is concerned anyway. Have look at your house plans and you will probably find that brick articulation joint has been missed. Maximum allowable spacing is 6M or 5.5M for a wall with window… 17 20559 Hi all Am new to this forum. I want to get some ideas/info about how to manage an 80 year old factory restoration to convert to a residence. The factory floor is concrete… 0 6338 Hi We have a road close to our place and only an old flimsy wooden fence between us and the Neighbour closest to the road. Any ideas on a sound proof modular fence. Like… 0 7458 |