Browse Forums Building Standards; Getting It Right! Re: Render & tiling defects in owner builders inspection rep 21Jul 13, 2012 5:20 pm Hi B Star It was a simple example and no comparison. My degree in building was 5years(4 years full time and a year part time) and I am no doctor but I will stand up to any engineer you care to nominate (within my area of expertise) Your experience with builder registration is similar to my experience with pest control management course. Some technicians could not work out simple areas and yet they were expected to mix chemicals by volume in the right concentrations, it's frightening (there are hundreds of thousands of homes in Melbourne treated with poisons) Yes it does not give you a lot of confidence in builder registration and I certainly have met some that looked if they stepped off the last boat. So you have to do full diligence before you commit . Yes I do have a beef with the fact that many building companies are run by lawyers and accountants and it's all about the money. Whilst they do have a registered practitioner it's for compliance (because the law requires it) and not quality control. If you mean by actual building, working on the tools then yes. However project management is management of : technology, legislation and production. Production management includes:planning and control including contract control. There is nothing wrong with owner building, it's a great way to learn, progress and make money however getting it wrong can mean loss, disappointment and waking up to second rate job for which you paid good money. Not everything can be fixed, nor is economically feasible. If your house looks like it is built in a third world country, how are you going to fix that? Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Render & tiling defects in owner builders inspection rep 22Aug 01, 2012 10:24 pm building-expert Not everything can be fixed, nor is economically feasible. If your house looks like it is built in a third world country, how are you going to fix that? And that is the problem in every developed country I've been to: It may look good from the outside if build by tradies, but often they saved money/cut corners (or at least built to the very lowest common denominator) where you can't see it right from the start. Personally, I'll be building my own house down there. I will build it to passivhaus standards (or better, where applicable) and will only involve tradies when they are needed (and I will oversee their work - especially when it comes to plumbing and electricity. If you take a look at the thread with the prefab house and the slab that doesn't fit, I couldn't help but notice that even if it was a prefab frame, they bodged it together with bent assembly plates. Seriously, I can do better than that. I have build boats (as a hobby, that is), so I'm betting I can build a house which is up to scratch if I design and plan it properly. In all honesty, I don't see why you need to bash owner builders. The owner builder may not know everything there is to know, but compared to "professional" builders who may know (big maybe) the rules and whatnot, but choose to ignore them as a cost cutting measure, I know who I'd bet on. Of course, a thorough report from someone in the know might help a bit, but I'm willing to bet that I'll spot things the inspector would never spot or even think about (as I've done here in Denmark). Edit: Picture: http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii5 ... 151330.jpg From this thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=58178 Re: Render & tiling defects in owner builders inspection rep 23Aug 02, 2012 11:36 am Hi Danois No I am not bashing owner builders, this is what I said: There is nothing wrong with owner building, it's a great way to learn, progress and make money however getting it wrong can mean loss, disappointment and waking up to second rate job for which you paid good money. All I am saying, you are tackling something unfamiliar and you could get it wrong, so either get education in building or buy knowledge from someone who knows. You talk about the bodged prefab frame (your photo link) but it's not the frame that is a problem, it's the oversize slab. You got the wrong conclusion before you started. I disagree with your own supervision aspirations. I am building expert but I don't know everything, I am not a licensed plumber or a licensed electrician. How am I supposed to know more than the licensed people but you do? I have no doubt that you can intelligently pick up obvious building defects but if you don't know building regulations and standards you won't know what to look for and items may get missed, perhaps serious items. (Missing smoke alarm as an example is a serious issue because it is potentially deadly.) This is what I regularly find (builders and owner builders alike) and that's why I have put it on my blogs. By all means go and do your owner build but do your homework and take care and get some right advice. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Render & tiling defects in owner builders inspection rep 24Aug 02, 2012 12:16 pm building-expert Hi Danois No I am not bashing owner builders, this is what I said: There is nothing wrong with owner building, it's a great way to learn, progress and make money however getting it wrong can mean loss, disappointment and waking up to second rate job for which you paid good money. Yes, you said that, but you also mentioned third world looks and whatnot. Don't be that dishonest. Quote: All I am saying, you are tackling something unfamiliar and you could get it wrong, so either get education in building or buy knowledge from someone who knows. You talk about the bodged prefab frame (your photo link) but it's not the frame that is a problem, it's the oversize slab. You got the wrong conclusion before you started. No I didn't. We all know the slab is out of shape. But if you look at those metal plates holding the frame, one of them is actually cut (poorly) to bend to two angled surfaces, and it's gaping at one of them. Things like that would be noticed around here, as it can surface as an uninsulated spot further down the line, resulting in black mould/dry rot later on. It seems you're the one missing the blatantly obvious, drawing on your vast experience as a building expert to draw the wrong conclusion even before you begin. Seriously, if that's the standard self-proclaimed "building experts" is doing, I can do a better job myself. Quote: I disagree with your own supervision aspirations. I am building expert but I don't know everything, I am not a licensed plumber or a licensed electrician. How am I supposed to know more than the licensed people but you do? You can disagree all you want. I know enough about electrics and plumbing to know where it matters. Drainage canals having the right gradient, plumbing to the right zones in the right order, no sharp bends of cable, and no loose cable all around are things I can control and supervise if they choose to do it incorrectly. In fact, I'll make sure that any and all wiring and plumbing are specified both what they should be and where exactly I want it. I'm appalled at some of the threads here where the experts deem a bodged job "a-okay". Quote: I have no doubt that you can intelligently pick up obvious building defects but if you don't know building regulations and standards you won't know what to look for and items may get missed, perhaps serious items. (Missing smoke alarm as an example is a serious issue because it is potentially deadly.) This is what I regularly find (builders and owner builders alike) and that's why I have put it on my blogs. Here in Denmark I have the latest building code on my bookshelve as well as electronically. I will use the available building codes of Australia when I get to build there. However, building regulations are the bare minimum to be met. I will build my house to passivhaus standards or better. With a nod to termite protection and other Aus-related needs (rain water capture etc.). And, yes, it will be blower door tested (gaps around the windows as I saw in another thread, and which was deemed "fine" and "normal"! Sheesh!). Quote: By all means go and do your owner build but do your homework and take care and get some right advice. Don't worry, I am doing my own build and I am doing my homework. There's a reason I'm here, and that I have tons of reading about regulations and whatnot about building in Oz. Instead of asking concreter how to do my slab, I will do it to passivhaus standards and get it done accordingly. I won't be asking an Aus tradie how to do it, because they will draw on their experience and choose the lowest common denominator (as they would here in Denmark). I don't need that. I need someone to work according to spec, and everything I need a tradie for will be specced. That's the only way I can control the build properly if I want to build something to a standard as high as the Passivhaus standard. Re: Render & tiling defects in owner builders inspection rep 25Aug 02, 2012 12:23 pm Hi Building expert i agree with what your are saying. However one of the issues I find is that people (tradespeople) dont know how to accommodate for changes or things that are not correct. The example above is a good example. The slab is a little bigger than it should be. But it will still work given the tolerances of the cavity. What I dont like is that the trades person failed to understand the forces and how the braces works. In this case he shaped the tie down bracing so that in reality it is not taut. A better way was to attach the bracing without the step so that in cant move. This still might be small compared to other things. However I always come across these type of issues where when the circustance change many of the new tradespeople today can not adapt as it is out of process. Re: Render & tiling defects in owner builders inspection rep 26Aug 02, 2012 12:43 pm Hi Danois I wish you the best with your build and please do share your experience. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Render & tiling defects in owner builders inspection rep 27Aug 02, 2012 1:09 pm Hi B Star Yes we do have serious issues with the quantity and the quality of training of our trades and the fact that because shortage of skilled trades and because many have left for mining states we have a smaller pool to work with. If the trades are not trained properly then they have no chance of doing a good job or knowing how to solve problems. It takes a good tradesman to do a good job but it takes a master to fix a bad job. However, my experience is not so much that tradies do not know how to do a good job, its the lack of care that mostly is the problem. I have plenty of examples on my blog: butchered braces, and insulation, poor set out, not bothering to straighten walls, smashed drains etc. Builders too are the problem( not all). They promote tradies to supervision but don't train them properly for the job and to top it off they don't invest in QA because it costs too much. That's my two bob. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Render & tiling defects in owner builders inspection rep 28Jan 28, 2013 5:57 pm i also have a friend with the same issue, and its ok have a budget for repairing those things, The significant date is when receive final payment invoice Check that section of contract Bit of fluff by builders prior to that 1 15951 There are a lot of private inspectors should have stayed working as tradies!! 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