Browse Forums Building Standards; Getting It Right! 1 Apr 27, 2011 11:23 pm What are peoples opinions of plastic water pipes in new houses ? Being an old f@rt myself, I'm probably a bit too much of a traditionalist for these there new-fangled things, heck I had enuff trouble when they went from lead to copper for water pipes* !! Be that as it may, I'm wondering about the long-term installations of these pipes from a couple of different points. Firstly, there's the issue of failures of the actual pipe or compression fittings. Will the chance of failure be increased by heat (ambient in the walls or from the water, see other threads about people cranking their instant HWS to 70°) or high (utility supplied) water pressure or from shock waves caused by water-hammer ? Then there's the issue of poor work-person-ship (nah..I'm sticking with workmanship from now on ). In my experience a copper weld doesn't "fail". Sure, if it's not done correctly it'll leak, but at least it has the decency to leak then-and-there, whereas I fear a poor job on plastic pipe could leak at a later date, months down the track. And just as worrying is the trend to steel-framed homes with plastic pipe. On the weekend we were looking at display houses and saw a house under construction by one of the builders we are thinking about maybe considering for our "short-list"....... I wandered over for a sticky-beak, as you do and saw it was steel-framed. Being concerned about the plastic pipes I carefully "eye-balled" the workmanship. (Trust me, in my day job I do a lot of critical inspections, critical as in there's a chance 200 people could die in one hit if I miss something). Where the pipes went through the lightning holes in the (ummm...err....noggins, are they still "noggins" in a steel-frame ??) the plumber had installed a "clip" that kept the pipe from chaffing on the steel. OK, so the installation of these clips was pretty **, not good enuff for my day job, but I'll admit they would probably do the job they were intended to do. BUT, I noticed in one place, (and being a two-story house I couldn't inspect the whole installation) an issue where the pipe came through the top-plate. Where the pipe was passing through the noggins it was basically running vertically, however, the plumber had needed to put a bend in the pipe where it came through the top-plate. While I have no idea as to the allowable bend-radius of this pipe, the bend itself certainly seemed to be "within limits" and did not cause me any concern. However, the plumber had done a really half-@ssed job with the clip, with the result that at the curve the plastic pipe was actually chaffing on the edge of the hole in the steel !! There may be only a millimetre of movement at this point each time the taps are turned on, the pipe expands or water-hammer flexes the pipe, but I couldn't help but wonder how long it would be before the pipe actually chaffs through ?? I'd be interested in hearing others views, both from a consumer and any plumbers here. P_D *OK, I'm not really old enuff to remember the Roman days of lead pipework, but I do remember lead "stink-pipes" on the toilets that had the cistern over-head and operated by a pull-chain !! . Block settled 07 June 2011 Our little piece of the Interwebs on HomeOne....... viewtopic.php?f=31&t=48577&start=0 Re: Plastic Mains Water Pipes 2Apr 28, 2011 1:22 am As far as plastic goes its been used for water mains for a long time now and doesn't have any problems related to pressure. One think I don't like about copper is that there is a risk of copper corrosion unless your water board keeps the alkalinity of the water fairly high. This is something that the copper industry keeps quiet about but certain area can really suffer. The Harder You Try - the Luckier You Get ! Web site http://www.anewhouse.com.au Informative, Amusing, and Opinionated Blog - Over 600 posts on all aspects of building a new house. Re: Plastic Mains Water Pipes 3Apr 28, 2011 1:36 am bashworth As far as plastic goes its been used for water mains for a long time now and doesn't have any problems related to pressure..... Arr....I did not know that, I've seen it used in newer building developments but I thought it was a reasonably new thing !! Only thing I'd say to that though, is that I've seen the way governments build things, and they're generally "over-engineered" by a significant (cost too ) factor. I'd assume that the mains pipe is significantly heaver duty then the domestic pipe-work, that is, not only a larger diameter but also heavier wall-thickness ? Given that the pressure in a (closed) hydraulic system is constant, do they have pressure-reducing valves at the water-meter, or is the house pressure the same as the mains feed ? I ask this as if there is no PRV, then the mains pipe wall-thickness must surely be 3 or 4 times the domestic pipe wall thickness for the same pressure....That being the case, either the mains is severely over-engineered or the domestic is equally as severely under-engineered !!! bashworth .......One think I don't like about copper is that there is a risk of copper corrosion unless your water board keeps the alkalinity of the water fairly high. This is something that the copper industry keeps quiet about but certain area can really suffer. Hadn't heard of that....Maybe living in South Australia with our infamous "Adelaide water" it's not an issue here ?? (Every time Mrs P_S or Miss P_D goes interstate that gush about how much the soap and shampoo lathers up and how good their hair looks !!!) Thanks, P_D . Block settled 07 June 2011 Our little piece of the Interwebs on HomeOne....... viewtopic.php?f=31&t=48577&start=0 Re: Plastic Mains Water Pipes 4Apr 28, 2011 2:52 am If you are in a hard water area like Adelaide copper corrosion shouldn't be a problem. With regards to pressure it's not constant as it does vary in closed systems due to flow changes. The pipes are thicker but one of the reasons is that the worst loading condition for a pipe under the road is when the pipe is empty and being backfilled. Normally the water authority should maintain the pressures in the distribution system within a range that is suitable for domestic pipework. The Harder You Try - the Luckier You Get ! Web site http://www.anewhouse.com.au Informative, Amusing, and Opinionated Blog - Over 600 posts on all aspects of building a new house. Re: Plastic Mains Water Pipes 5Apr 29, 2011 4:32 pm We had plastic all through our last place before we knocked it down. It was about 20 years old and had full plastic in the house. The only copper pipe was to the house and up through the wall where it came in. Re: Plastic Mains Water Pipes 6May 10, 2011 3:35 pm jamsuji .....I think you are referring to PEX pipe. It can hold any pressure you can produce from your well pump. Thanks jamsuji, But what well ?? Do wells need extra high pressure pumps ? How long has the PEX pipe been in use for ? Thanks, P_D . Block settled 07 June 2011 Our little piece of the Interwebs on HomeOne....... viewtopic.php?f=31&t=48577&start=0 Re: Plastic Mains Water Pipes 7May 23, 2011 3:13 pm Just to answer your question re the wall thickness of mains pipe versus the domestic pipe. The required wall thickness is a function diameter. ie a larger pipe will require a thicker wall to contain a given preasure than a smaller pipe. Its to do with surface area. Basically the same preasure over a larger area results in a higher overall force. So concludes our physics lesson for today. Hope its clear Re: Plastic Mains Water Pipes 8Aug 31, 2011 9:57 am Just for interest sake.................. I got a quote from a "Project Builder" (who we probably won't be using. To upgrade all piping to copper they wanted an extra $2,300. Didn't seem all that unreasonable to me ?? P_D . Block settled 07 June 2011 Our little piece of the Interwebs on HomeOne....... viewtopic.php?f=31&t=48577&start=0 Re: Plastic Mains Water Pipes 9Sep 01, 2011 10:05 am 'Plastic' pipe is rated for 95 degrees. Re chafing, a lot of plumbers are as rough as guts but the requirement for full insulation on hot water pipes, regardless of the material type of pipe, would give additional protection. 'Plastic' pipe also absorbs shock waves (hammer) to a large degree. If using rainwater, it is best not to use copper pipe. Rainwater is naturally acidic and it can cause copper corrosion. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Plastic Mains Water Pipes 10Sep 01, 2011 10:15 am Plastic in our last 3 homes and no problems at all. Faulty workmanship is evident in ALL types of material and should be addressed at every available opportunity. As an owner, I would inspect my site every day and if not happy with the quality of instillation I would bring it up with the builder till I was satisfied. if it's the look that you're not happy with, the easiest option would probably be to spray paint it all into the same color as the walls so it blends in. there might not… 3 4205 Building Standards; Getting It Right! Thank you for the generous offer. I need to get the plumber out to give me an explanation. As mentioned I haven't seen any rain water discharge from pipes 1& 3. 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