Browse Forums Building Standards; Getting It Right! 1 Jan 19, 2011 2:09 pm I have been having fun with a completely useless flooring company who has installed a hardwood T&G floor in my place over an existing particle board sub floor. Problem is, they haven't installed it to Australian Building Standards, along with a long list of other issues. I've had the BSA inspect one issue that the boards are separating and glue has pushed up through the joins. The BSA and Installer both blamed "defectively machined boards" for this happening. Of course the supplier stands by his products and says even if they were defective, they should never have been installed. So I have the installer blaming the product, and the suppliers blaming the installer, and the BSA being as useful as ........ So by the looks of it, I'm caught between a rock and a hard place and will have to go to court. In the mean time, I have had another builder look at the floor and point out that they are not installed to Australian Building Standards as they have not left a 10mm expansion gap on the perimeter. Some places are as little as 2mm. Also I was the one who made them put in an expansion gap for a section greater than 6m as they had me convinced it wasn't needed. So my question is, what are my options? Can I get someone to certify a floor install to say if it meets Australian Building Standards? The company is threatening legal action because I haven't paid the bill, and they have been less than helpful from day one. Any suggestions? Re: Floor installation not to Australia Building Standards 2Jan 19, 2011 8:59 pm Hi P, so sorry to hear of this. Have you tried to obtain some advice/info/report from timber and/or timber flooring associations such as Forests NSW or ATFA or NWFAA. I think ATFA is national. Try calling them, or try Gerry Swindale from NWFA (he's the president and has actually been in flooring for ages) http://www.nwfaa.org.au/committee.html. However, not sure how much help they would really be (other than you'd have to pay them for the report). BTW, we also have some glue protruding between a few boards, but nothing major. At least the glue is elastic, and it's been sanded down (to a degree), plus there is a tiny gap between the boards anyway and glue has sort of filled it. I think that's OK. Worse is when they didn't put enough glue, so the butt ends are going up and down and that breaks the rigid coating. And, we have exp. joins in one area, but we totally forgot to ask for them in another area (which is 6.5 m wide). So, it's touch and go for the next few years. What species do you have? Has the timber moved a bit? How does it look? Are the splits very bad? How complicated is to create side gaps? I think the easiest way is to cut the plaster out just above the boards - if the floor was installed with skirting off and if the house is brick veneer. Sorry, not much help. My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Floor installation not to Australia Building Standards 3Jan 20, 2011 10:46 am Thanks for the reply Lex. I have contacted the ATFA and they have confirmed that if the the expansion gaps aren't 10mm than the floor isn't up to standard and I can pay for a report to be done which can be used in court. My problem is, the licensee who gave me the quote for this floor (but then sent 4 young guys to install it) is actually involved with the ATFA. I believe he is an instructor, and possibly even an inspector. This is why I used the company in the first place. oh what a mistake that was. So I don't want to go wasting my $650 to have it inspected by them, only for him to get in the inspectors ear. After the BSA inspection, I have very little faith that these reports are in fact independent. Below are some photos. Expansion gaps not big enough http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Mq ... directlink http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/XQ ... directlink http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Lu ... directlink http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/4r ... directlink http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/v4 ... directlink http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Xv ... directlink http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Bs ... directlink Expansion gaps that are wider than the skirting and needed to be filled with putty. http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/SO ... directlink http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/gG ... directlink Cork expansion gaps installed after the floor was installed. I insisted on them being added after the licensee told be they weren't. The cork was installed lower than the boards, so needed filling. Even after boards sanded. http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/U6 ... directlink Including chipped granite bench. http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/iL ... directlink This is the worst part where the glue pushes up through the boards. It's 1.2m long, both sides of the boards, and so much is pushed up it is raised above the level of the floor. This is after sanding and polishing. http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/8e ... directlink So as you can see, it's a very poor job. How the company and BSA let this go amazes me. As for the gaps in the floor. They range up to 3mm. Keeping in mind this is in the middle of summer and with amount of humidity and rain we have had in Brisbane, I have no idea what the boards will do come winter. Re: Floor installation not to Australia Building Standards 4Jan 20, 2011 11:02 am i know the gaps are 10mm but i wouldn't worry too much about that. 10mm is just an indication in my eyes. smaller rooms can do with less. I don't like the way the have left the timber short by more than the skirting width and filled with putty. Putty will come loose in the future. Re: Floor installation not to Australia Building Standards 5Jan 20, 2011 2:37 pm Yeah I understand the 10mm expansion gaps may not cause an issue, but my problem is paying for this job when it's clearly against Australian Building Standards. If it is an issue in 2,4 or 7 years time, I'm going to have a lot more trouble dealing with it then. There are Australian Building Standards for a reason. I can't understand why they aren't followed, and when they aren't the BSA turns a blind eye. It's very frustrating from a clients point of view that has no experience in the building industry. As for the putty to fill the skirting. This is just poor workmanship. It's not illegal, it's just poor. There's probably nothing I can do about that one. Re: Floor installation not to Australia Building Standards 6Jan 20, 2011 2:54 pm Did you supply the timber and they only did the installation? If so, maybe you could let them take you to court. If that happens, you can then engage some org to do a report for you - not before. You can then put the argument that they placed a great amount of risk on your house (expansion of floor but no gaps - floor affects the walls) as well as glueing boards together so they can split. I think the court would view other issues as only cosmetic, unfortunately - but this is not to say that you have not suffered loss of expectation and enjoyment etc., not to mention value, and that the court would not rule in your favour. If they also supplied the timber, they would probably be more likely to take you to court because their cost is greater. Were they expensive? I don't think they are in any easier position than yourself - going the court would cost them too and they may very well lose, regardless of how "expert" reports paint the picture - facts are facts and it's not likely they would be swiped aside by courts. My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Floor installation not to Australia Building Standards 7Jan 20, 2011 4:04 pm Thanks for the input. I did supply the wood myself, and then the supplier recommended these guys to install. I couldn't find any bad press about them so thought why not. As it turns out, the supplier no longer recommends these guys for different reasons. They were the most expensive quote I got to do the job, but we are only talking a bit over $2K. The issue is, if they are found to be at fault I would assume they would be up for the cost to fix the lot. ie, materials and all. The main reason I want this sorted now is that I have been told the gluing of the boards together, and the lack of expansion gaps increases the likelihood of the boards popping up and causing trip hazard. I have a young family and with an internal stair case involved I don't want anyone going down the stairs. The cost of fixing the floor now will be a non-topic if anyone is seriously injured because of this. Adam Baines Grad Cert Bldg Surv / Grad Dip Bldg Surv / MSAAPA Accredited Building Professional APB20210035 Builders Lic 183023 Pest Control Lic 84868 Ph 0412202336 PO… 3 46846 Building Standards; Getting It Right! Don't think they are designed for double brick. WA has a particular way of building and unfortunately that's the way a large amount of sills are finished. 3 7014 I believe this is correct. From the picture you can see the power was put in last so the electrician knew where the water was. Really it's a common sense issue more… 4 5162 |