Browse Forums Building Standards; Getting It Right! A plumber notched out my ceiling joist!!! 4Mar 14, 2012 9:59 pm Can you clarify what has been notched out? Is it a truss where several parts have been notched or is it a horizontal piece spanning several truss assemblies? And I would never get a plumber to carry out carpentry work, any more than I would get the chippy to do the plumbing work. Your plumber is responsible for it, sure, but that doesn't mean he should be allowed anywhere near the repairs. This is something you say that you don't want problems with in the future so don't risk it, particularly when this is an area that might well have to comply with some fairly strict engineering tolerances. Getting the plumber to fix this is like getting your tyre fitter to replace the main seals in your cars engine. Even if it is just a joist between two trusses. Ray HD Re: A plumber notched out my ceiling joist!!! 5Mar 15, 2012 6:48 am Ray153, thanks for your advice. I'm afraid I have next to no idea about roofing structures and I haven't actually been up in the roof space to check it out up close. From the ceiling cut out I can see that it is a horizontal ceiling joist (that is flush with the ceiling plaster) and I assume it is a chord between trusses. Here's a picture from a fairly unhelpful angle: Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Perhaps I'll get a carpenter in to reinforce it? Re: A plumber notched out my ceiling joist!!! 6Mar 15, 2012 7:57 am By the look of your photo it definitely needs reinforcing as it now has less than half the strength of the original timber. The Harder You Try - the Luckier You Get ! Web site http://www.anewhouse.com.au Informative, Amusing, and Opinionated Blog - Over 600 posts on all aspects of building a new house. Re: A plumber notched out my ceiling joist!!! 8Mar 15, 2012 4:15 pm MrZebra Ray153, thanks for your advice. I'm afraid I have next to no idea about roofing structures and I haven't actually been up in the roof space to check it out up close. From the ceiling cut out I can see that it is a horizontal ceiling joist (that is flush with the ceiling plaster) and I assume it is a chord between trusses. Here's a picture from a fairly unhelpful angle: Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Perhaps I'll get a carpenter in to reinforce it? The truss appears to be sitting on blockwork, if thats the case don't go wasteing money paying a chippie, as ugly as it looks I dont see it as a major problem. Just ask the plumber to shoot something on the other side for piece of mind. And yes plumbers are smart enough to do that, i've even seen some of them cut and nail in the nogs for there tap combo's. For the record, I've spent 34yrs in the building industry, 1/3 of that has been in maintenance. I've seen just about every problem you can have with a house and what causes it. Cheers Mick Re: A plumber notched out my ceiling joist!!! 9Mar 15, 2012 8:58 pm Hi Mick (mgilla), I wish the truss was sitting on blockwork! Unfortunately what you can see on that photo is gray, blow-in insulation (I hate the stuff) impersonating a breeze block. The truss (joist?) is running along the top of an internal wall, however, so it is probably being supported to some extent by the vertical wall studs. I think I'm going to go with your idea of reinforcing with a cleat. My sparky friend is doing some work for me on the weekend (in the roof space as it happens) so I reckon he can reinforce it while he's up there (proving once and for all that tradies can do cross-discipline work!). Would you recommend screwing the cleat on from the damaged joist side or the cleat side?? Or both?? Re: A plumber notched out my ceiling joist!!! 10Mar 15, 2012 9:02 pm rojak1 vent piping should be flexible and with a turn if possible, so the oily stuff does not get drip down directly to rangehood over longer period. Hi Rojak, thanks for your input. I read somewhere that rigid, straight vent ducts result in a more efficient and quieter rangehood - which makes sense, since it would provide a laminar air flow. But I see your point about the grease build up - yuck! Re: A plumber notched out my ceiling joist!!! 11Mar 16, 2012 4:38 pm MrZebra Hi Mick (mgilla), I wish the truss was sitting on blockwork! Unfortunately what you can see on that photo is gray, blow-in insulation (I hate the stuff) impersonating a breeze block. The truss (joist?) is running along the top of an internal wall, however, so it is probably being supported to some extent by the vertical wall studs. I think I'm going to go with your idea of reinforcing with a cleat. My sparky friend is doing some work for me on the weekend (in the roof space as it happens) so I reckon he can reinforce it while he's up there (proving once and for all that tradies can do cross-discipline work!). Would you recommend screwing the cleat on from the damaged joist side or the cleat side?? Or both?? I even saved the image and zoomed in, I would have swore that was a bessa block. Anyway. Knowing that, it is unlikely the truss will be supported on the internal wall, it will span from one external wall to another, or a girder truss to an external wall. Depending on the roof type i.e. tiles or tin will slightly change the length of the timber cleat. If it's tin a peice about 1200 long nailed to the truss will do. Theres very little weight in a tin roof and what there is, is spread far and wide. If it's tiles try to get a piece about 2000 in there, longer if you can and ideally as close to where the web intersects the bottom cord each side of the notch. Nail the cleat to the truss, and few back the other way won't hurt. Re: A plumber notched out my ceiling joist!!! 12Mar 19, 2012 2:59 pm [quote="MrZebra"I read somewhere that rigid, straight vent ducts result in a more efficient and quieter rangehood - which makes sense, since it would provide a laminar air flow. But I see your point about the grease build up - yuck! [/quote] Depends on the type of range. My Schweigen REQUIRES bends for it to work at is most efficient and quietest. I has to do with the turbulence generated from the motor and how it passes through the ducting. It looks like the reason they used the rigid pipe is no-one thought how it was to be installed before hand. I had the same problem even though my builder had the model # and specs for 4 months prior. I'd get them back to do it properly. In terms of workmanship that is not acceptable IMO. You'll probably have to pay for a ducting kit but I'd say it'll be a little quieter and you won't get grease dripping down it either. Re: A plumber notched out my ceiling joist!!! 14May 02, 2012 11:48 pm I just want to tell you I went through the same thing...but our building inspector picked it up. It is quite serious and ours was just that they put a flange in the joist - not cut out a whole chunk! They had to remove the whole bulkhead to fix and cut holes from the floor above to replace the joist. It was difficult to do properly. They had to call the company that calculated the joists required for the structure. Their fix was along the lines of : Reinforcing LVL to be 45x35mm with min length of 740mm / Pre=drill 8 x 6.5mm diametre in side of top flange, staggered. (They provided pictures/diagrams etc)/ Then use 8 x14 guage type 17 screws minimum 90 mm length, any sign of splitting, stop immediately and call xxxx. Design is for structural purposes and is for rectification of HJ300 90 and only relevant for the issue at our place... they even further state in their report that any floor squeaking or any other issue that may occur , caused by this beam will be the responsibility of the builder. So - ours is a double story place , so maybe more strict. In our case you can see, it is quite serious . Maybe not so much if a single storey? Not sure, but I thought I would post because I think you should get a professional company to inspect. Your plumber should have the insurance to cover this. Why run the risk of potential problems down the track? Re: A plumber notched out my ceiling joist!!! 15May 04, 2012 7:00 am tracey em I just want to tell you I went through the same thing...but our building inspector picked it up. It is quite serious and ours was just that they put a flange in the joist - not cut out a whole chunk! They had to remove the whole bulkhead to fix and cut holes from the floor above to replace the joist. It was difficult to do properly. They had to call the company that calculated the joists required for the structure. Their fix was along the lines of : Reinforcing LVL to be 45x35mm with min length of 740mm / Pre=drill 8 x 6.5mm diametre in side of top flange, staggered. (They provided pictures/diagrams etc)/ Then use 8 x14 guage type 17 screws minimum 90 mm length, any sign of splitting, stop immediately and call xxxx. Design is for structural purposes and is for rectification of HJ300 90 and only relevant for the issue at our place... they even further state in their report that any floor squeaking or any other issue that may occur , caused by this beam will be the responsibility of the builder. So - ours is a double story place , so maybe more strict. In our case you can see, it is quite serious . Maybe not so much if a single storey? Not sure, but I thought I would post because I think you should get a professional company to inspect. Your plumber should have the insurance to cover this. Why run the risk of potential problems down the track? Hi tracey em, I'm not quite sure what you mean by they put a flange in the joist, was the joist altered in some way? I would be interested to see a pic of what was done to warrant the repair. Cheers mgilla Re: A plumber notched out my ceiling joist!!! 16Aug 12, 2012 10:19 am I realise this might be a bit late, but if you have a gas cook top the range hood ducting should be made of non combustable materials. PVC is not. Re: A plumber notched out my ceiling joist!!! 17Aug 12, 2012 8:30 pm cabinetmate I realise this might be a bit late, but if you have a gas cook top the range hood ducting should be made of non combustable materials. PVC is not. Where is this rule written? Cannot see what difference the cooktop would make that far up. Re: A plumber notched out my ceiling joist!!! 18Aug 15, 2012 8:01 am AJW cabinetmate I realise this might be a bit late, but if you have a gas cook top the range hood ducting should be made of non combustable materials. PVC is not. Where is this rule written? Cannot see what difference the cooktop would make that far up. Any range hood manufacturer will advise of non combustible materials for the ducting over a gas cooktop. The reason is that some range hoods have an extremely strong motor and in rare cases it has drawn the flame up into the range hood. It is for this reason you should duct a range hood over a gas cooktop externally and not into the ceiling cavity. Re: A plumber notched out my ceiling joist!!! 19Aug 15, 2012 8:19 am I would put the chances of the gas flame getting near the range hood at around zero! I would however think that gas or electric it is possible for saucepan's to catch fire, sometimes on purpose, that would warrant non combustible material being used I would think! 2 It's MGP 10 which means every length has been machine graded to it's specified engineered strength. It may not look pretty and if you where hand picking your timbers you… 1 543 Assuming you've modelled the TB8, TB10, TB12, TB2 & J1 joists/LVLs there, it appears as per drawing to me. There maybe should be an additional J1 between TB10 and T12 if… 3 32298 Seconded; we just used these last weekend to build a small deck. They worked perfectly as we have bluestone in the area where we wanted to build so digging down was not… 8 9372 |