possible plumbing fail on new build

Noname · Feb 01, 2022 10:02 am

StructuralBIMGuy

Noname

The problem is not the slab/footings, it's the plumbing. Underground. Which a slab/footings inspection doesn't pick up nor is it the engineers remit.

LOL, Of course not it's always someone else's problem even when they overlap
most on site never look past their noses, until someone points out a problem.
Builders are great at instructing their certifiers to look at only what I'm paying you to do... so look the other way...and don't trip over (humour)

i dont know what you expect. The order of operations and the industry doesn't support good outcomes for drainage from the get go, engineer or not. If you rock up to a site to to a footing inspection, you simply cant view the drainage works, nor would you be called out to view the drainage works before hand when someone who specializes in that field, has the qualifications and the absolute right to certify the work themselves is already there. The problem is self-regulation of what is arguably one of the most critical steps of the process (at least in reactive soil), not the builders or the trades.

SaveH2O · Feb 01, 2022 10:06 am

Noname

Familiar with clay plugs, though with how much gravel there is either side of the pipes its hard to say they've installed them either. Plumber recons he has. Short of pulling up the formwork and digging, won't be able to tell for sure.

Correct.

I mentioned the 'box' type of clay plug because they are so apparent. As per 'normal' installs, if there is gravel and sand under the pipe and not compacted clay, you have no way of knowing.

This thread has convinced me that manufacturers should make swivel joints etc in a distinct colour.

Noname · Feb 01, 2022 10:20 am

SaveH2O

Noname

Familiar with clay plugs, though with how much gravel there is either side of the pipes its hard to say they've installed them either. Plumber recons he has. Short of pulling up the formwork and digging, won't be able to tell for sure.

Correct.

I mentioned the 'box' type of clay plug because they are so apparent. As per 'normal' installs, if there is gravel and sand under the pipe and not compacted clay, you have no way of knowing.

This thread has convinced me that manufacturers should make swivel joints etc in a distinct colour.

That would be a great idea. That could potentially answer the question with a camera inspection after the fact.

Why cant we just have expectations written into the rules/standards that stipulate that all connections and plugs HAVE to have photos taken in the event they are required? These days that's not a tough ask. Everyone has a camera in their pocket, apps exist which facilitate proper record keeping for people who have to take pictures of their receipts, work product etc. I think ithats the ticket to play if you want to continue self-regulating. Small inconvenience for not having someone looking over your shoulder all the time.

In the finance industry where we ARE regulated heavily, regs say we must have X,Y,Z and must be able to produce X, Y and Z in the event of an investigation or enquiry from whatever the relevant party is. Most businesses may never have to produce X,Y, and Z, but its mandated. Currently working through something like that as we speak.

SaveH2O · Feb 01, 2022 10:38 am

We need to move the layers of complexity and engage first principles thinking.

Noname · Feb 01, 2022 11:11 am

update - pics of the swivel/expansion joins exist. ive seen them with the site super a moment ago. The site is identifiable as mine as i have a bazzilion silt pits. SO thats positive news. No pics of clay plugs as they didnt take any. Will have to trust that theyve done it. They probably havent, but given the swivel joins exist i'll have to give them the benefit of the doubt at this point. Pick your battles.

In the end the whole perimeter will be concreted and paved except for raised beds following the fence perimeter with gold standard surface drainage installed withapprox 100m of spoon drains draining across 15 silt pits.

moving on...

SaveH2O · Feb 01, 2022 11:21 am

Brilliant.

Mauromario · Feb 16, 2022 1:52 pm

I just wanted to through a spaner in the works here. Does anyone on here know how much does a builder pay for soil test classification, bare in mind the majority of so called geotechnical engineers use the Ys estimate to test the soil which I remember correctly that's only good if you have knowledge of local area, which is tactile test only if we had normal weather conditions or normal seasonal weather , but what happens when you build a house during the worse drought in Victoria history according to experts and professors in geotechnical engineering teaching at university.
I'd like to know how much does a builder pay or any builder big or small feedback will be appreacited. I will reply after I read anyone answers because the soil test is the biggest base on a building a new home, it's like a tree growing if the root base is week the tree will eventually fall over or suffer and fall or brachens braking off. So now I'll wait to hear from anyone that knows 100% what a builder pays for a new home soil test for classification . Waiting for anyone.

Noname · Feb 16, 2022 3:29 pm

Mauromario

I just wanted to through a spaner in the works here. Does anyone on here know how much does a builder pay for soil test classification, bare in mind the majority of so called geotechnical engineers use the Ys estimate to test the soil which I remember correctly that's only good if you have knowledge of local area, which is tactile test only if we had normal weather conditions or normal seasonal weather , but what happens when you build a house during the worse drought in Victoria history according to experts and professors in geotechnical engineering teaching at university.
I'd like to know how much does a builder pay or any builder big or small feedback will be appreacited. I will reply after I read anyone answers because the soil test is the biggest base on a building a new home, it's like a tree growing if the root base is week the tree will eventually fall over or suffer and fall or brachens braking off. So now I'll wait to hear from anyone that knows 100% what a builder pays for a new home soil test for classification . Waiting for anyone.

im not sure i understand the correlation you're trying to make. How does the COST of a soil test have anything to do with the performance of the slab?

While i dont know what a builder pays, I know most recently they charged me 1k to get it done and when I've called other firms independently in the past, I've been quoted prices of 900 all the way to 1500.

What the builder pays is sort of irrelevant.

The result of the report informs the engineer of considerations to make when designing the slab. They use software to do the design which holds all the relevant calcs/metrics for it to perform based on data they input. They then provide the engineering to the builder, usually with caveats around what else needs to be maintained for the slab to perform as per design. Eg, site drainage throughout build, appropriate compaction etc. Its the ignoring of the engineers notes that often leads to the failure, not the results or the cost of the soil test. Geo tech engineers are not stupid people and neither are engineers (well most of them).

Then there is the client variable. I live in Melbournes west where we have highly reactive soils, and I know that all the volume builders give their clients information on foundation protection, yet every second house on every street has a garden bed or three right against the house and no paving around the house. I've seen people leave sprinklers on for 8 hours in their front yard saturation the entire area worse than any 1 in 100 storm. its crazy.

also, no idea why you've put it in this thread. Its kind of not relevant and most likely wont get the attention (clicks) you want for answering the question you have.

Oakland Projects · Feb 16, 2022 3:37 pm

In VIC, between $450 - $600 depending on the consultant used.

Mauromario · Feb 17, 2022 12:42 pm

Ok now I'll answer this I had a soil test done by 2 independent geotechnical engineers to reclassify the soil and to make sure the builder did actually do a soil test, it cost me $5800 each soil test since we have not had normal soil condition for a very long time the soil test was done by using the D1 Apendix testing of soil that means to have a accurate spilt classification it must be tested in a labratory for shrink and swell test and check the soil in a labratory. Now I know this for a fact as it came out in discovery documents during vcat, do you really think builders will pay to do a proper soil test with the price they pay I won't disclose how much because we are still in litigation but most people on this forum know my story they helped me a lot to understand how things work had not been for the help of these experts I may not have won our case i know builders pay under $1000 by using the Ys estimate which is only good if you have normal soil conditions. Since we have not had normal soil condition to seasonal weather changes they use tactile testing . which is done by hand also if there is trees or with the vicinity of the the land or if trees or dams have been removed the D1 Apendix must be used. So I ask again do you think builders big or small will pay $5800 for a proper soil test to determine what kind of slab should be designed for your site. This is why so many home fail and the chairman of the AS2870 knew about it.

Noname · Feb 17, 2022 1:29 pm

Mauromario

Ok now I'll answer this I had a soil test done by 2 independent geotechnical engineers to reclassify the soil and to make sure the builder did actually do a soil test, it cost me $5800 each soil test since we have not had normal soil condition for a very long time the soil test was done by using the D1 Apendix testing of soil that means to have a accurate spilt classification it must be tested in a labratory for shrink and swell test and check the soil in a labratory. Now I know this for a fact as it came out in discovery documents during vcat, do you really think builders will pay to do a proper soil test with the price they pay I won't disclose how much because we are still in litigation but most people on this forum know my story they helped me a lot to understand how things work had not been for the help of these experts I may not have won our case i know builders pay under $1000 by using the Ys estimate which is only good if you have normal soil conditions. Since we have not had normal soil condition to seasonal weather changes they use tactile testing . which is done by hand also if there is trees or with the vicinity of the the land or if trees or dams have been removed the D1 Apendix must be used. So I ask again do you think builders big or small will pay $5800 for a proper soil test to determine what kind of slab should be designed for your site. This is why so many home fail and the chairman of the AS2870 knew about it.

you don't need a $5800 soil test to engineer a slab. Good luck proving that you do though.

Also this thread is not about your soil testing. Consider making one to keep the topics separate.

Noname · Feb 17, 2022 1:30 pm

also please consider formatting your posts before posting them. They are hard to read.

Mauromario · Feb 17, 2022 1:53 pm

Noname let's keep it simple we won our case at vcat, so I don't need to prove anything. And I write how I'd like to write if you don't get it well I cannot help that. I don't need good luck in proving soil test was done wrong because I already have. Good luck

Mauromario · Feb 17, 2022 1:54 pm

Noname let's keep it simple we won our case at vcat, so I don't need to prove anything. And I write how I'd like to write if you don't get it well I cannot help that. I don't need good luck in proving soil test was done wrong because I already have. Good luck I wonder who you really are your name. Humm

Noname · Feb 17, 2022 2:24 pm

Mauromario

Noname let's keep it simple we won our case at vcat, so I don't need to prove anything. And I write how I'd like to write if you don't get it well I cannot help that. I don't need good luck in proving soil test was done wrong because I already have. Good luck I wonder who you really are your name. Humm

you won, what's the result, again? that's right, not much. Less money, more heartache. You still don't need a 6k soil test to complete slab engineering. Thats like getting a blood test to verify you have covid when a PCR tells you what you need to know.

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Noname · Feb 17, 2022 2:25 pm

* dont need 6k soil test to engineer a slab for a standard residential block. Perhaps if you were in a high erosion area, you might.

Mauromario · Feb 17, 2022 6:37 pm

Thats the problem, read the AS2870 and understand the differance between the Ys estimate soil test and D1 Apendix testing than you get a accurate soil classification. Ive beenthrough this won our case on it and still builder breaches the agreed orders.
Dont tell me i dont need it, if they did a proper soil test my crapy waffle pod slab would not have split in half, you know 2 pieces. Thats it no morefrom me.

StructuralBIMGuy · Feb 17, 2022 6:44 pm

Noname

* dont need 6k soil test to engineer a slab for a standard residential block. Perhaps if you were in a high erosion area, you might.

Go gets some engineering qualifications #NonameNoQualificationsNoCompliance
You have no Friggin idea of what battlers are having to go thru...
Go and repair some slabs you fool

Noname · Feb 17, 2022 7:37 pm

Mate you can't even do the most basic of maths. From now, I'm going to post the below to EVERY single thread I see you in. We can let the battlers see what a fruitloop you are

Noname · Feb 17, 2022 7:43 pm

Hi All, here are some classic bimboy posts. Please enjoy the read. Complete fruit loop that cant do basic maths. Enjoy the read

Literal fruit loop territory

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=103796&p=1899089&hilit=Metaverse%2C+Metahomes%2C+FB+banks+on+VR+Homes#p1899089

Here's the one where i prove he cant do simple maths after he tells ME to "brush up" on MY maths .He literally gets destroyed because he doesn't know when to stop. Worst comprehension of a human being I've seen to date.
"The investment return on a dilapidated house in an expensive area is <50c m2/week ..lol, thats probably why they are selling it"
BAHAHAHAHA
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=102752

Maybe this one where He cant even cant get his own story straight?
viewtopic.php?p=1899743#p1899743

Or this one rofl
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=103773&p=1898949#p1898949

Another comprehension one lol
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=103588&p=1897997#p1897997

I have more. Who would like to see more?

HTH