Paint Peeling - Plaster too soft?

Liney · Aug 14, 2015 7:31 pm

Hey dexx what was the timeframe from white set plaster going on your walls to when you applied the PSU to the walks and then paint?

dexx · Aug 17, 2015 12:55 pm

It would have been about 10 weeks.

StructuralBIMGuy · Aug 17, 2015 1:43 pm

Hi Dexx
See if you can find out whose set plaster was used on your walls..
It could be either Bradys or lime industries here in WA.
You are better off contacting & ask for a technical rep to call around

mike100jobstodo · Aug 18, 2015 10:43 am

If your paint is peeling and there are bubbles on it, this is probably the walls were not properly dried before it was painted. This could be because the house was painted just before a storm or without taking into consideration the dampness of the wall.

Lewie_7 · Aug 22, 2015 12:06 am

Hi lathiat,

A few things to consider when assessing plaster damage:
The condition of the plaster prior to painting – Was there are evidence that defective work had been undertaken prior to painting, such as cracking? The type of cracking may help determine the problem.

Powdery surface – Powdery surfaces require treating with a solution of phosphoric acid & water, then washing down prior to painting. Testing of paint films over these surfaces are covered by means of pressure sensitive adhesive cellulose tape.

Weak surfaces – To test strength before painting, the following test can be carried out:
1. Attach a strip of adhesive cellulose tape firmly to the surface.
2. Quickly pull it off.
3. If the tape removes a significant quantity of plaster, the plaster has an
unsatisfactory surface layer.

Record your findings and contact the builder in writing.

It may also be worth noting that a maximum depth of 3mm should be applied on the gypsum coating, if this is exceeded then perhaps the moisture rising to the surface during hydration has caused the surface to weaken.

Although StructuralBIMGuy is correct in saying that plastering & painting are both issues that fall outside of the BCA, in the event of a complaint lodgement with the building commission they will assess all relevant evidence. In other words, in the absence of code specific clauses (in the BCA) other documentation may be considered. Much of the above points that I have mentioned come from the Guide to Plastering produced by Standards Australia.

If the above points are not applicable then you may want to consider the ‘guide to paintings of buildings’ produced by Standards Australia. I would be surprised if the builder included the painting in the building contract, and things can become difficult if there is no sub-contract agreement in place if you engaged a sub-contractor, although painters are licensed trades so the building commission may be your best avenue again. I recently attended a seminar on the dispute resolution process at the building commission, and in the absence of code specific clauses they will consider clauses from documents such as the guide to standards and tolerances, which may be worth a look.

http://www.vba.vic.gov.au/__data/assets ... s-2015.pdf

Do you mind me asking who did the painting (you / builder / subbie)?

Bunty67 · Mar 16, 2016 9:54 am

I have the same issue in my house - addition finished Dec 2013 and and paint peeling away easily from walls.
I painted the house myself - 14 weeks after the plaster was finished with Taubmans prep right and Dulux Wash n Wear. Due to numerous other issues with the building work (involving a 15month dispute that resulted in a 70m2 travertine floor being pulled up and replaced) I only got around to dealing with the walls a couple of months ago. Taubmans have tested the wall coating and agreed that the correct product was used and that there is a failure in the plaster.
I've since discovered that the Building Commission in WA has set up a working party to deal with the problems of white set plaster in WA - this was initiated by the Master Painters assoc after numerous complaints in WA with peeling paint.
Since my builder has now ignored my requests to discuss the issue - he's trying to say that I applied the paint incorrectly then I'm assuming that I will have to go through the building commission and also get the plaster tested myself.

I'd appreciate if any other Perth members could recommend the name of a company to test the plaster

Thanks

wood bang · Mar 30, 2016 9:21 pm

Have you tested for moisture content?

Hampstead · Aug 16, 2016 6:06 pm

We are in this position too!!! we have spent thousands on scientific reports. Been through Building Commission and then to State Administrative Tribunal... Hearing coming up in Oct/Nov. We know that when we remove anything from the wall (blu tac, even post it notes) it takes off the paint and a very very thin layer of lime rich plaster the rest of the plaster appears to have the right lime/plaster ratio. I am desperate to find out why/how the lime has risen to the surface? It's that lime rich layer that is failing and coming off the wall and taking paint with it. But how does a layer of lime rich plaster (as thin as a coat of paint) get to the surface, set and appear to be a good plaster job and then after painting the plaster fractures and comes off under any type of impact. As mentioned above, even a laundry basket resting agains the wall will take paint and plaster off. If anyone can shed any new light on the subject we would be very grateful. This has cost us a fortune and 2 years of stress and worry and the only thing getting our house fixed is the lack of guidelines for plasterers and because its so hard to prove why the lime rich surface was there. HELP!!!!

magicbee · Nov 15, 2016 10:32 pm

Hampstead

We are in this position too!!! we have spent thousands on scientific reports. Been through Building Commission and then to State Administrative Tribunal... Hearing coming up in Oct/Nov. We know that when we remove anything from the wall (blu tac, even post it notes) it takes off the paint and a very very thin layer of lime rich plaster the rest of the plaster appears to have the right lime/plaster ratio. I am desperate to find out why/how the lime has risen to the surface? It's that lime rich layer that is failing and coming off the wall and taking paint with it. But how does a layer of lime rich plaster (as thin as a coat of paint) get to the surface, set and appear to be a good plaster job and then after painting the plaster fractures and comes off under any type of impact. As mentioned above, even a laundry basket resting agains the wall will take paint and plaster off. If anyone can shed any new light on the subject we would be very grateful. This has cost us a fortune and 2 years of stress and worry and the only thing getting our house fixed is the lack of guidelines for plasterers and because its so hard to prove why the lime rich surface was there. HELP!!!!

Wow... I am having this problem too! My house was completed in mid 2014 and has been having this problem of paint peeling off easily from the plaster. Initially I thought it could be due to the moisture, but its been over 2 years and the problem remains. Any folks going through this problem too? And whats your remedial action with your builder?

Samhome · Jul 12, 2017 3:09 pm

Hi Amilelka

It's now 2017 and I'm also experiencing the same issues as you. I've been in contact with the builder for over 3 years and he still won't accept there is a problem.

I had a plaster tester recommended to me to use (expensive but this is now what I need to do to "prove" with scientific evidence that there is indeed a problem) but when I tried to make an appointment wth him he said he couldn't do it as it would be a conflict of interest as he sits on the Board that looks at cases such as mine!

I would be most appreciative if you could let me know who you got to do your testing (and any other advice you have I would also be most grateful for).

Thanks so much

Dilbert_Perth · Jul 19, 2017 3:50 pm

Hi everyone,
I'm in WA and I have also had this problem in my house build a few years ago. The builder has been no help and denied anything was wrong as well. I contacted the Painters Registration Board as I thought it was a priming problem but they were extremely unhelpful and almost aggressive in the conversation, saying I couldn't report issues to them and had to go through my builder (who was terrible). I would think that the number of problem houses is much more than they have estimated.
The Building Commission was also no help saying I would be wasting my time and money to lodge a complaint.
I also got no joy from Taubmans when I called, but by the way they spoke it sounded like a common problem here in WA.
I would also be interested in how to test to determine the problem, I am more interested in finding a solution. At the moment even the removable 3M hooks just peel off the wall with a trail of paint stuck to them exposing plaster, it is so disappointing that you can spend upwards of $650,000 on a product with no real warranty or any ability to fix obvious poor workmanship.

lathiat · Apr 25, 2018 2:33 am

Follow-up 3 years later; the builder has brushed the issue off as normal from impacts despite the fact it has gotten much worse and there is damage to pretty much every wall in the house from all sorts of different causes.

I accept that some damage wear and tear would be normal but the scale this is happening on is entirely not fit for purpose in my view even if it was "normal". And very much sounds similar to what is mentioned in the below report and also matches bad behavior described in AS/NZS 2311:2009. Now looking to find someone qualified to evaluate the situation and whether they agree with my thoughts.

In my specific case, the paint was done through the building contract, which probably simplifies things for me to some extent compared to others. Although my primary issue is largely not peeling but simply the surface is too soft, it takes very low impact damage to deform the surface.

For the information of others reading this thread, I would refer you to read the following reports that were semi-recently released (2016, since I first started looking into this). The full report PDF is here:
https://www.masterpainters.asn.au/documents/item/44

A couple of summaries:
https://www.masterpainters.asn.au/news- ... ter-report
https://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/announce ... e-painters

If anyone wants to share with me the specific testing they did / companies they used / the outcome of their complaints I would love to hear from you, you can e-mail to trent@lloyd.id.au - I would really appreciate it.

Cheers

StructuralBIMGuy · Apr 25, 2018 9:38 am

LOL...The painters report was a whitewash...get it
Meanwhile thousands are left to consider gyprocking over their walls
yet another consumer protection/ Building Commission agency failing

Dilbert_Perth · May 12, 2018 3:12 am

I have had a representative from the Plasters Association and one from the Painters and Decorators inspect my walls a few weeks ago. No solution was offered to fix the problem.
The inspector from the plaster's association did a visual inspection and said it looked fine, it was a paint issue. The painting inspector thought it was both a plaster and a painting issue, the only real solution is to live with it and patch up when you can't put up with the scratches and peels.
My paint peels off whenever anything touches the wall (e.g. leather couch), and the paint that comes off has a powdery covering on the back. It is also soft, I have my computer monitor on a swivel stand and turned it too far one day. It dug through the paint and plaster down to the grey render with no damage to my monitor. The paint inspector said he had seen a lot worse jobs than mine, the worst was plaster and paint falling off the wall spontaneously, where as mine needs a minor touch or bump to cause damage.
When I have time I was going to try different binder / sealers and paints to see if anything works better.
Not feeling great about this whole process...

Doughboy · Aug 05, 2018 1:17 pm

There is a multitude of variables that can impact.
It was always recommended that walls were left 3 months, preferably 12 months so that the whiteset could reabsorb carbondioxide and truly harden.
Painters never used to 'seal' walls, instead they would put a fat white coat of white on.
The problem with 'sealing' too early or even worse, while walls are wet is the whiteset is denied carbon dioxide to 'harden' the white.
Other variables are watering down paint, spray misting paìnt to walls and 'laying off' paint as a laughable two coats.
Spraying paint is a new variable of only getting traction the past two decades.

Doughboy · Aug 05, 2018 1:21 pm

If you put sticky tape on plasterboard, it will peel the paint off the plasterboard.

The key to good solid plaster whiteset walls are leaving the walls before sealing as long as possible so they may absorb carbon dioxide and harden and dry releasing all moisture.

2 good coats of seal.

Then paint.

Doughboy · Aug 05, 2018 1:26 pm

If your walls are soft they may be treated with a 'special formulated ratio' phosphoric acid treatment to harden them.

The other option is you drywall your house instead of solid hardwall plaster.

Do note however that stickytape will peel paint of plasterboard gypsum sheet.

Doughboy · Aug 05, 2018 1:39 pm

There has been a noteable fall in quality supervision and organisation of housing construction.

Houses are slow to start then supervisors try to resolve poor organisation trying to make up their poor time management by painting on wet walls and sometimes the sealer diluted along with poor coverage, sometimes no sealer at all.

Worse still, if the paint is diluted with water the paint becomes weak; combined with spray paint poor adhesion can occur.

If supervision is abominable and walls are painted fast and wet, diluted with water and other cheap paint, you get a perfect storm of soft plaster and whispy poorly adhered paint sitting on the surface. The whiteset no time to release water, absorb CO2 and harden

Doughboy · Aug 05, 2018 1:54 pm

The reason wet areas have to be waterproofed is moisture ingress via capillary action through the walls destroys the plaster on the back eg. the shower.

You all know a leaky pipe destroys plaster so why would a supervisor make a decision to send in the white setters before the walls are dry?

Why would a supervisor make the decision to send in the painters to seal freshly whiteset walls or send painters to seal wet walls destroying the plaster whiteset?

Whats worse, painters not applying sealer and or watering down paint to save paint. And misting paint via a spray gun onto walls, worse, wet walls.

Builder supervisors are called supervisors because they are wholly responsible for the building quality directive process.

Builder supervisors are responsible for the outcomes.

You dont go back to Holden and blame the paint guy because the paint is peeling. Just like the car maker, the builder is responsible.

If the builder starts deflecting. Walk away and contact the Building Commision about a trbunal dispute.

Don't waste your time with phones. All communication should be in writing.

dexx · Aug 18, 2018 4:48 pm

3 years later, the paint still peels away from a well sealed (dulux oil based sealer) section of wall. As most others in this thread have concluded, the issue is because the plasterer added things to the render which have leached through the plaster and weakened it. An expensive solution is to plasterboard the whole house. Much better, if you can stomach it, is just to repaint regularly. Wallpaper is another option.