Hi Everyone from a Geotech

Hi Everyone,

New member, purely here to share my experience and knowledge

Happy to answer any questions regarding borehole reports/site classifications/geotechnical reports.

There is a lot of mis-information going around about Site Class's and what it means to construction costs and therefore I am happy to give a professional opinion on such instances.

I am NOT a structrual engineer and cannot answer questions about structural matters, but I do have many years of experience with a monthly soil test turn over of 600+ sites across the east coast of Australian and a firm understanding of AS2870.

Knowledge helps us all understand and "most" builders struggle with giving the right information. Lets change the industry and share the facts that way the industry and improve through honesty.

Regards

Geo1

Welcome to the forum. You are a valuable addition to the ranks.

Your advice and information already posted has been +A1 and I recommend to all who read this to follow Geo1 and read his posts.

Thanks SaveH20, really just here to gain some traction to make the consumer aware of the requirements of the code and increase education. My frustration at the moment with the industry is the fact that consumers are sold something they may or may not require. There is a big difference between builders doing the right thing and adding a mark up and builders just trying to add a mark up.

Since my business started (many many years ago, still without a holiday) we have built a business of well known major builders who are "trying" to do the right thing and of course competing with builders of which don't. Its actually tough for them because a consumer sees $$$$ and is not given the facts and explanation. I always say, the consumer will go for a $3000 tap before they go and put $3000 into their slab.

I spend most of my time talking to "good" builders and educating their staff (estimators, tender presenters/ drafties/engineers) and I actually find the consumer is not silly, when presented with a reasonable reply and a educated tender, then actually understand and will side with them.

I am fortunate enough to have a mentor who is on the committee governing AS2870 and therefore its like my daily read. Sections 1-3 anyway being a geo.

Any questions I am happy to answer and I am not here to give out my company name, rather increase the education and knowledge of the consumer so THEY can ask the relevant questions with confidence.

Regards

Geo1

Good to have you aboard Geo 1

I think there needs to be just as much information and education for the builders and thier duties to comply with the standards as much as the consumers needs to be informed.
It needs to flow down the line to their supervisors, contractors and tradies which unfortunately is not happening.

insider,

Thanks for the reply.

I actually spent the day yesterday (early flight/late home to the kids interstate trip), talking to one of my main builders (major builder 2500+ homes a year), educating their following (of which I have been invited generally every 6 months depending on staff turn over), for the last 10 years;

1. Construction team
2. Sales team
3. Estimating team
4. drafting team
5. Tender team
6. Management team

This particular company fully understands the importance of what "I"/"the industry" requires and its importance. They are at the forefront of "complying", however the aspects of my 4 hours (yes 4 hours) of presentation/questions/answers/concerns was still governed by the "Sales" staff and the fact, that their competitors were selling a lot more houses because their competitors were not in compliance.

As much as "management" and "middle management" staff tried to interrupt, it was the sales guys/girls causing the most stirr.

As much as I can try and change the industry, i have realized "never try and take a dollar from someone who thinks they are owed it".

Regards

Geo1

The tail wagging the dog?

Hi Geo1,
I hope it's ok to reply to this thread from a few months ago.
I'm about to start planning then building a 'tiny' home, then larger home (same land, 1 acre block lucky me) in a few years.
I understand I need a geotech investigation and report for recommendations on the type of foundations to use on my site ('site classification AS2870-2011') and also need this for the plumber installing water and septic tanks ('effluent disposal assessment').
I spoke with my local council who recommended a company and their quote came back at $3,300.
Everything I can find online gives a guide price of $1-2k, however there are so few companies that are able to provide this in my area (near Cessnock NSW) I suspect that would be why it is a higher cost. Is over $3k be a reasonable price? I want to go ahead with it but essentially don't want to get ripped off!
Thank you in advance,
Faye.

Hi Faye,

We do not do effluent disposal assessments so cannot comment on that part of it. However in terms of an AS2870-2011 Site Classification, my standard clients are on $800+(for a normal house etc) for Cessnock/Hunter. So basically unless you are paying $2,500+ for the effluent disposal assesment, it seems you are getting taken advantage of.

Try Hoolihan and Partners at Gosford (from memory), see if they do the lot. I do know they are reasonable on prices and have a good reputation. They are structural engineers however they might offer a one stop shop etc or at least point you in the right direction to a reasonable geotech and effluent designer.

Regards
Geo1

Try Geoenvironmental Solutions Tasmania, they design wastewater systems and have designed septic system upgrade for me for $900. My old septic was retained but I had to relocate my effluent disposal because it was too close to the beach. Now we pump up hill away from the house and the beach to a new patch into "Eljen" bed.The upgrade cost me 10K but all good now
I am not sure they will do interstate but try.

Thank you Geo1! I have contacted Hoolihan Partners. The part of the quote for the site classification was about $1600 so definitely not value for money!

Thanks building-expert I will have a look at their water tanks.

Really appreciate your help.

FayeA
Apart from getting competitive quotes also
1. Check on the software & file translation formats used Eg Dwg, Rvt, Ifc,etc
2. Try to Link the building data throughout to all Stages ie Contour, geotech, Sketch, Design, Engineering Estimating, Quoting, Construction & Compliance & Inspection
3.You can only do 2 above if you take control, otherwise you may be passed around to expensive consultant services, that may duplicate data and charge accordingly
4. Start your own thread, Break down your project into trade Element Components..ideally link it to google sheets & Reach out for help. Goodluck

[quote="Geo1"]insider,

Thanks for the reply.

I actually spent the day yesterday (early flight/late home to the kids interstate trip), talking to one of my main builders (major builder 2500+ homes a year), educating their following (of which I have been invited generally every 6 months depending on staff turn over), for the last 10 years;

1. Construction team
2. Sales team
3. Estimating team
4. drafting team
5. Tender team
6. Management team

This particular company fully understands the importance of what "I"/"the industry" requires and its importance. They are at the forefront of "complying", however the aspects of my 4 hours (yes 4 hours) of presentation/questions/answers/concerns was still governed by the "Sales" staff and the fact, that their competitors were selling a lot more houses because their competitors were not in compliance.

As much as "management" and "middle management" staff tried to interrupt, it was the sales guys/girls causing the most stirr.

As much as I can try and change the industry, i have realized "never try and take a dollar from someone who thinks they are owed it".

Regards

At a guess maybe simonds as not many doing 2500 or more.

Joker

The forefront of "complying" meaning they are not the worst but don't comply with the Australian Standards?

I believe that overall approach of having one company building 2500+ individual residential homes a year is a bit off the way, barely manageable and, considering, huge turnover of labour, is far from being optimal when it gets to the quality and consistency.

They should be rather becoming experts in providing process and technology and then use a wide network of smaller "franchise-type" builders targeting 3-4 houses/year max with HQ trained and certified experienced trader teams and supervisors to build their homes using materials supplied to them. Bigger volume or more universal jobs like earthworks, concreting, framing pre-fab, roof tiling, scaffolding etc. can be handled and co-ordinated from HQ level.

And then HQ should be providing mechanisms for the quality control (having an in-house team of professional building inspectors as well as independent building inspectors reviewing and documenting builds on ongoing basis and then confirming how and how quickly the defects are getting rectified).

Each small builder "franchise" will have internal ranking system which will be comprised of a number of KPIs including the number of defects found, average time to rectify, custom feedback, post build feedback etc., their margins and "franchise license" will be directly tied to this system.

They can also invest into IT systems which will allow daily progress reports, photos etc. to be sent from sites on daily basis as well as available to the customers.

With that system they can scale up and, at the same time, deliver much more quality builds.

I am quite sure that instead of 2500 non-compliant houses a year Australian customers would rather prefer smaller amount of houses.

Metricon are around 4500 builds a year, staggering amount of new builds, trouble is sales people whom once they get their commission don't care as nothing comes back on them,we even had a couple of new builds in Armstrong creek Geelong collapse,removal of debree all done at night.

It is actually up to the management, not to the sales. Management can always say "sorry guys, we can't scale up further at that point, not taking any more new homes for a while until we free up the resources". Selling more and more and then ending up thousands of non-compliant low quality homes asking for trouble is definitely not what Australia requires.

My point is that multi-billion dollar company, if they want to keep up their market share, should be able to manage things better and look out for synergies where possible.

Fully agree with your view points, so much so wrong with the building industry, unfortunately there are people out there that only care about how many and how much they get out of the industry,no integrity,and in Australia seemingly led by most the big boys.

It's actually up to the regulators to get their act together and the politicians to give them the resources needed to provide enforcement and consumer protection.

It’s also up to customers to understand what Companies like Metricon really deliver after the sales pitch and vote with their wallets!

Yes problem is clients are voting with their wallets!!

Volume builders deliver what a typical client wants.

How else an average Joe get a 40 to 50 sq house mansion.

Aussies refuse to accept a 25-33sq house is more than suffice for typcial family of 4.

Just imagine if we accept 25-33sq that's looks "ugly" but it's a 8 - 10 stars home with a slab that is super reliable.

We all will be living more comfortably.

But No we want our 40sq++house with 600x600 tiles than basically freeze u off during winter..

And typical volume builders house builded corner to corner doesn't follow passive design..

Probably above is an extreme example but u get what I mean.