Browse Forums Windows & Doors 1 Sep 02, 2014 10:19 am Can anyone please enlighten me is it worth upgrading from standard to 6mm and or E glass/low E? Due to finances double glazing is not an option so we are looking at the alternatives. We are not worried about summer heat only combating winter cool with overnight temps down to 0 regularly but day time of 18 ish. We have considered an increase to 6mm and also the E coating. The WERS tells us the U value drops by about 2. Logically, that has to be better than standard but is that the thickness or the coating doing that? Is a drop of 2 worth it? Do we go ahead with the upgrade to 6mm and or coating or are we just throwing money away doing either/or both? Re: E Glass/Low E on 6mm v's standard - is it worth it? 2Sep 02, 2014 2:48 pm nectar Can anyone please enlighten me is it worth upgrading from standard to 6mm and or E glass/low E? Due to finances double glazing is not an option so we are looking at the alternatives. We are not worried about summer heat only combating winter cool with overnight temps down to 0 regularly but day time of 18 ish. We have considered an increase to 6mm and also the E coating. The WERS tells us the U value drops by about 2. Logically, that has to be better than standard but is that the thickness or the coating doing that? Is a drop of 2 worth it? Do we go ahead with the upgrade to 6mm and or coating or are we just throwing money away doing either/or both? IMO, you will not notice the difference, and you will struggle to clean low-E - and whether you use 6mm or 4mm thick glass will make no difference... I am surprised that double glazing is so much more expensive than low-E for you... Double glazing is like a doona, and low-E is just a reflective blanket. Get the doona... or find a window you can upgrade from single to double (is ours the only one?)... Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: E Glass/Low E on 6mm v's standard - is it worth it? 3Sep 02, 2014 3:19 pm Thanks Ed, finance and also lead time was our consideration. I did try to get a quote for yours through Bunnings Bankstown Airport ( no reply) and also emailed your email address advising of this. It was our first choice (DG) but had trouble sorting one from another and UPVC V's thermally broken etc. Some of the suppliers were very prompt in their response but the sales tactics were pretty much all the same among the ones we spoke to ...which was 'Ours is better than theirs and their warranty is based on ****** and BS blah blah....in the end it was all too hard ad tme was slipping away unfortunately and as I say lead time is a major factor - our fault/problem not anyone else's. Thanks for that info, I appreciate it very much. It is the conclusion we sort of arrived at but why then has the U value dropped? Re: E Glass/Low E on 6mm v's standard - is it worth it? 4Sep 02, 2014 3:36 pm The U value drops as measured using radiant heat... fine for incoming solar heat gain, but all exiting heat is via conduction, and only your doona windows can fix that. Sorry we could not help... is it too late? Thanks Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: E Glass/Low E on 6mm v's standard - is it worth it? 6Sep 08, 2014 6:09 pm nectar Can anyone please enlighten me is it worth upgrading from standard to 6mm and or E glass/low E? Your energy assessor should be able to tell you this, but I would say it will definitely be worth it. Windows are pretty much the first place to look for improving thermal comfort (assuming you have moderate levels of insulation elsewhere). nectar Due to finances double glazing is not an option so we are looking at the alternatives. We are not worried about summer heat only combating winter cool with overnight temps down to 0 regularly but day time of 18 ish. Wow, sounds like you are in a pretty cold place. All the more reason to increase the efficiency of your windows. nectar We have considered an increase to 6mm and also the E coating. The WERS tells us the U value drops by about 2. Logically, that has to be better than standard but is that the thickness or the coating doing that? It is the coating doing it. Going from 4mm to 6mm has very little impact on thermal resistance. A drop of '2' is proportionate to the original figure. Going from 8 to 6 (25%) is less impact than dropping 4 to 2 (50%). The U-Value is the inverse of an R-Value, so take your figure for the standard glass (lets say 6.0 as an approximation - and divide 1 by the U-Value. 1/6 = 1.66.) These windows have an R-Value of R0.17. If the Low-E has a u-value of 4.0, the R-Value would be R0.25 (1/4). This doesn't sound like a lot, but when the R-Values of windows are so low, any minor improvement can help - a lot. nectar Is a drop of 2 worth it? Do we go ahead with the upgrade to 6mm and or coating or are we just throwing money away doing either/or both? Your energy assessor has the figures for predicted energy usage for your home. These are not really supposed to be used to estimate your energy bills, but they can be used as a guide. If your home is using xx MJs to stay warm with the clear glass, and yy MJs to stay warm with the Low-E, you can convert this difference in MJs to Kilowatt hours and multiply it by your energy cost (elec or gas - depending on how you plan to heat). This might give you an approximate payback period if the financial side is important. I have upgraded my glazing to Low-E even given an expect a payback period of ~70 years. This is a long time if you are thinking running costs, but I am banking on not requiring installing AC/heating in the first place and the saving on these appliances has already saved me the cost of the upgrade. Time will tell whether the thermal simulation is correct and the home is relatively comfortable...but its a risk I am willing to take. Small footprint in Eliza Ponds, Spearwood WA Re: E Glass/Low E on 6mm v's standard - is it worth it? 7Sep 08, 2014 6:12 pm The cleaning issue with low-e is debatable. There are different styles, the cheaper versions are a film on the internal face. These come in thicknesses like 4mm, 6mm etc. The manufacturer has information on correct cleaning procedure, but yes - these films can be damaged with harsh cleaning chemicals or scratching. I wouldnt say you cant clean them, just need to be gentle. There are other options where they laminate the film between two sheets of glass. These are 6.38mm, 8.38mm etc. These are slightly more expensive, but the film is protected by the glass so have no special cleaning requirements over any other glass. Small footprint in Eliza Ponds, Spearwood WA Re: E Glass/Low E on 6mm v's standard - is it worth it? 8Sep 09, 2014 1:07 pm Tristanium The cleaning issue with low-e is debatable. There are different styles, the cheaper versions are a film on the internal face. These come in thicknesses like 4mm, 6mm etc. The manufacturer has information on correct cleaning procedure, but yes - these films can be damaged with harsh cleaning chemicals or scratching. I wouldnt say you cant clean them, just need to be gentle. There are other options where they laminate the film between two sheets of glass. These are 6.38mm, 8.38mm etc. These are slightly more expensive, but the film is protected by the glass so have no special cleaning requirements over any other glass. It's not a film with low-E glass, it's a metallic coating, hardly debatable re damage/cleaning, since everyone acknowledges it, but the glass suppliers play it down. The PVB interlayer in laminate is not a low-Emissivity layer. Laminated low-E like ComfortPlus has the coating on the OUTSIDE (which faces to the exterior). There are low-E films, but be careful what you apply any film to, ask the supplier if it is guaranteed when used with double glazing, as it can cause the double glazed unit to break. Low-E glass used in double glazing does not have the problems that exist in single glazing, plus it is much more effective as it is soft coated, and soft coating is more efficient in reducing solar heat gain (lower U value). Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: E Glass/Low E on 6mm v's standard - is it worth it? 9Sep 09, 2014 5:56 pm ed @ ecoclassic Laminated low-E like ComfortPlus has the coating on the OUTSIDE (which faces to the exterior) Sorry, my mistake, I had assumed it was laminated into the centre and not applied to the surface. The manufacturer website does confirm this - so thanks for clearing that up for me. Small footprint in Eliza Ponds, Spearwood WA Re: E Glass/Low E on 6mm v's standard - is it worth it? 10Sep 10, 2014 2:09 pm Tristanium ed @ ecoclassic Laminated low-E like ComfortPlus has the coating on the OUTSIDE (which faces to the exterior) Sorry, my mistake, I had assumed it was laminated into the centre and not applied to the surface. The manufacturer website does confirm this - so thanks for clearing that up for me. Welcome... Common mistake, even people in the industry... Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 4 6201 If you can calculate the reasonable charged head from let's say 100mm below the gutter to the top of where the vertical riser's horizontal discharge pipe will be, that… 11 17530 Those span tables can be pushed a little for a low deck if you dont mind a little flex. Last deck I did, I pushed it a little and it was still rock solid - no noticeable… 6 13757 |