Browse Forums Windows & Doors 1 Jun 10, 2014 7:15 pm All, Need some advice please. Restore We have wood windows (~ 50 awning sashes = 4bed house) currently in a 1955 double brick house. Some of the wood is in bad condition (water damage = swollen, wet rot), the paint is flaking (probably lead based paint), some of the 3mm glaze is chipped, and some of the stays (hinges) are broken. Am in the process of getting more quotes for restoration, but suspect it would be costly. E.g. Joiner is asking ~$350 per sash (with 4mil glaze, and primed) if new. That is $17.5k right there! Not all of them needs repacing (carpenter will need to count but suspect ~60%). Then need to add cost of stays (~$50 for a pair stainless steel ones or $22 for zink galvanized) Add cost of new glaze for glass (not the sashes) - need some quotes (see below) Add cost of installing this glass (not the sashes) - carpenter can do this. Strip the old flaking lead based paint of window frames/sills = cost is unknown Paint window frames and sashes (I can do the painting self, except where scaffolding is needed). Carpenter Labour for above (remove and install new sashes, etc.) Am still getting more quotes for the glaze (can someone help me with approx material cost not install?): 4mil Clear glaze ~ $60/m2 Viridian Smart Glass SP10 clear (Hardcoat Low-E in single sheet) ~ $105/m2 Viridian Smart Glass SP10 clear Toughened (Hardcoat Low-E in single sheet) ~ $xxx/m2 Viridian Comfort Plus 6.38mm (laminated, Hardcoat Low-E) ~ $130/m2 Double Glazing 3/10/3 (not sure of gaps and thickness or even if I can fit this in my sashes) ~ $225/m2 Double Glazing (Softcoat Low-E in one sheet) ~ $yyyyy/m2 (Seems like I can not buy directly from Viridian. And seems like their customers (vendors selling to the public) has ridiculous markup - I was just quoted $330/m2 for Comfort Plus 6.38mm.) Considering all the above, it's looking at 20k probably closer to 30k to restore our wood windows. Or we could buy new windows. Have read a bit and am not into the narrow frame AL windows. It will not fit with the house. We need at least the thick AL frames and thermally broken or Plastic (uPVC). I think uPVC is actually much better than any AL because of U-Values and no more painting ever (powder coated AL is not for life, the paint does not last!). We probably would need Double Glazing (Softcoat Low-E in one sheet) for our Western Windows. The rest can be just double glaze. We will also get the joiner to quote me for all new wood windows, and incl. the carpenter cost to remove the old and install the new ones. My questions: 1) Is this a realistic way of looking at things, have I missed things? 2) What is the cost of glass/glaze (as mentioned above)? WHo is the best vendor to use in Sydney (not companies that quote ~ $330/m2 for Comf+)? 3) How do we deal with the flaking lead paint (some spots are exposing the pink lead primer...)? 4) Can someone suggest a uPVC vendor for supply and install for Sydney? (I saw some posts by www.windowfactory.com.au in this forum). 5) Any reasons why Al would be better than uPVC, besides cost? Any idea of the cost difference (is that some 20% or is it 50% between AL and uPVC windows). We are at a roadblock now. Our Wood Windows are lovely, but the cost/effort to restore them may not be justified. We can settle (with some convincing) for AL / uPVC windows. Any help/ideas/suggestions, please? Re: Buy new or Restore 2Jun 11, 2014 12:10 pm Google some replacement window companies... get some quotes. Some of your info is way off. Aluminium, estimate say $500 to remove & replace each window, say $400/m2 for the double glazed window incl, arcs and rubbish removal. Add $120/m2 for low-E. PVC is dear in Australia, so add 50%... This is just a guide. Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Buy new or Restore 3Jun 12, 2014 2:30 pm ed @ ecoclassic Google some replacement window companies... get some quotes. Some of your info is way off. Aluminium, estimate say $500 to remove & replace each window, say $400/m2 for the double glazed window incl, arcs and rubbish removal. Add $120/m2 for low-E. PVC is dear in Australia, so add 50%... This is just a guide. Ed Hi Ed, Think you tried to answer some of my question 1. The rest (other 4 questions) you may have missed. I have already received many quotes for replacement windows. Donalco, Manly Windows, Vision 3 - looking at 50k --- AL Commercial (100mm frame size) Windows, expensive IMO, but it does incl some bi-folds, sliding doors, etc. which we do not have at present. Without these it came to some 35k but using combination of ComfortPlus (Low-E) 6.38 and normal 6.38 mm Glass Trend and Stegbar - looking at 30k, or ~ 20k no bi-fold/sliding. --- I would not consider them, small AL frames, questionable fittings, IMO. So, I am not sure how you can say my information is way off when I have not supplied this information. In fact, you are asking me to get this information, so how can it be way off? You may have meant that my other (supplied information as per opening post) is way off. But what information is way off? More details on my info as per opening post: - PLEASE point out what is way off? A joiner quoted me ~$350 per wood sash (with 4mil glaze, and primed). He quoted, I did not guess. I counted my sahes at 50, I did not guess. My carpenter will count but my count says 60% needs to be replaced with new. What is wrong with this? Whitco stays cost ~$50 for a pair stainless steel ones or $22 for zink galvanized (Google it http://www.whitco.com.au/en/site/whitco ... tId=974435 and http://www.scllocks.com.au/whitco-windo ... steel.html). What is wrong with this? Northside Glass & Glazing quoted me via phone ~$330/m2 + gst for Confort Plus 6.38mm and $130/m + gst for 4mm glass. I suspect this is expensive and I can get cheaper. But this was his quote, not my guess. So, tell me, what is wrong with this? Carpenters do not quote for JOBS of these magnitude because there are too many windows and hidden unknowns. Carpenters work by the hour (~$60-$80/hr), same thing for joiners. So what did I guess here? Are you saying that the $20k-30k is way off? Why, and what do you base that on? The cost of the different glazing options were obtained from reading some of the posts on this forum. It was not a WILD guess, and I did indictae where I do not have information. Since it seems like you KNOW the prices (as you clearly say mine is way off), can you give me the prices and the source vendor? 4mil Clear glaze ~ $60/m2 ???? Viridian Smart Glass SP10 clear (Hardcoat Low-E in single sheet) ~ $105/m2 ???? Viridian Smart Glass SP10 clear Toughened (Hardcoat Low-E in single sheet) ~ $xxx/m2 ??/? Viridian Comfort Plus 6.38mm (laminated, Hardcoat Low-E) ~ $130/m2 ???? Double Glazing 3/10/3 (not sure of gaps and thickness or even if I can fit this in my sashes) ~ $225/m2 ???? Double Glazing (Softcoat Low-E in one sheet) ~ $yyyyy/m2 ??? (Seems like I can not buy directly from Viridian. And seems like their customers (vendors selling to the public) has ridiculous markup - I was just quoted $330/m2 for Comfort Plus 6.38mm.) The problem with your suggestion is that it makes a lot of assumptions. And then you add to your assumptions which will result in a bigger variances and estimation errors. ed @ ecoclassic Aluminium, estimate say $500 to remove & replace each window, say $400/m2 for the double glazed window incl, arcs and rubbish removal. Add $120/m2 for low-E. Let me see if I understand you: AL windows - $500 x number of windows = labour cost to remove old & replace with new $400/m2 x m2 of DG (no low-e) windows = material double glazed window incl, arcs and rubbish removal $520/m2 x m2 of DG (with low-e) windows = material double glazed window incl, arcs and rubbish removal My windows: Total = 34.70m2, 12 Windows DG = 11.82m2, 6 Windows DG Low-E: 22.89m2, 6 Windows That is for AL: 500 x 12 = $6000 400 x 11.82 = $4726 520 x 22.89 = $11902 TOTAL = $22627.50 (if this is what you can offer, then send me a private message so we can chat) (seems cheaper than Donalco, Manly Windows, Vision 3) That is for uPVC: = 1.5 x $22627.5 = $33.9k If repairing my existing wood windows is 20-30k (but you say my calc is way off?), and new ones are either 23k or 34k, why not go for this? Remember, I am asking for Restore vs Buy new. Please be kind and help me. Re: Buy new or Restore 4Jun 12, 2014 4:54 pm JohnWindows ed @ ecoclassic Google some replacement window companies... get some quotes. Some of your info is way off. Aluminium, estimate say $500 to remove & replace each window, say $400/m2 for the double glazed window incl, arcs and rubbish removal. Add $120/m2 for low-E. PVC is dear in Australia, so add 50%... This is just a guide. Ed Hi Ed, Think you tried to answer some of my question 1. The rest (other 4 questions) you may have missed. I have already received many quotes for replacement windows. Donalco, Manly Windows, Vision 3 - looking at 50k --- AL Commercial (100mm frame size) Windows, expensive IMO, but it does incl some bi-folds, sliding doors, etc. which we do not have at present. Without these it came to some 35k but using combination of ComfortPlus (Low-E) 6.38 and normal 6.38 mm Glass Trend and Stegbar - looking at 30k, or ~ 20k no bi-fold/sliding. --- I would not consider them, small AL frames, questionable fittings, IMO. So, I am not sure how you can say my information is way off when I have not supplied this information. In fact, you are asking me to get this information, so how can it be way off? You may have meant that my other (supplied information as per opening post) is way off. But what information is way off? More details on my info as per opening post: - PLEASE point out what is way off? A joiner quoted me ~$350 per wood sash (with 4mil glaze, and primed). He quoted, I did not guess. I counted my sahes at 50, I did not guess. My carpenter will count but my count says 60% needs to be replaced with new. What is wrong with this? Whitco stays cost ~$50 for a pair stainless steel ones or $22 for zink galvanized (Google it http://www.whitco.com.au/en/site/whitco ... tId=974435 and http://www.scllocks.com.au/whitco-windo ... steel.html). What is wrong with this? Northside Glass & Glazing quoted me via phone ~$330/m2 + gst for Confort Plus 6.38mm and $130/m + gst for 4mm glass. I suspect this is expensive and I can get cheaper. But this was his quote, not my guess. So, tell me, what is wrong with this? Carpenters do not quote for JOBS of these magnitude because there are too many windows and hidden unknowns. Carpenters work by the hour (~$60-$80/hr), same thing for joiners. So what did I guess here? Are you saying that the $20k-30k is way off? Why, and what do you base that on? The cost of the different glazing options were obtained from reading some of the posts on this forum. It was not a WILD guess, and I did indictae where I do not have information. Since it seems like you KNOW the prices (as you clearly say mine is way off), can you give me the prices and the source vendor? 4mil Clear glaze ~ $60/m2 ???? Viridian Smart Glass SP10 clear (Hardcoat Low-E in single sheet) ~ $105/m2 ???? Viridian Smart Glass SP10 clear Toughened (Hardcoat Low-E in single sheet) ~ $xxx/m2 ??/? Viridian Comfort Plus 6.38mm (laminated, Hardcoat Low-E) ~ $130/m2 ???? Double Glazing 3/10/3 (not sure of gaps and thickness or even if I can fit this in my sashes) ~ $225/m2 ???? Double Glazing (Softcoat Low-E in one sheet) ~ $yyyyy/m2 ??? (Seems like I can not buy directly from Viridian. And seems like their customers (vendors selling to the public) has ridiculous markup - I was just quoted $330/m2 for Comfort Plus 6.38mm.) The problem with your suggestion is that it makes a lot of assumptions. And then you add to your assumptions which will result in a bigger variances and estimation errors. ed @ ecoclassic Aluminium, estimate say $500 to remove & replace each window, say $400/m2 for the double glazed window incl, arcs and rubbish removal. Add $120/m2 for low-E. Let me see if I understand you: AL windows - $500 x number of windows = labour cost to remove old & replace with new $400/m2 x m2 of DG (no low-e) windows = material double glazed window incl, arcs and rubbish removal $520/m2 x m2 of DG (with low-e) windows = material double glazed window incl, arcs and rubbish removal My windows: Total = 34.70m2, 12 Windows DG = 11.82m2, 6 Windows DG Low-E: 22.89m2, 6 Windows That is for AL: 500 x 12 = $6000 400 x 11.82 = $4726 520 x 22.89 = $11902 TOTAL = $22627.50 (if this is what you can offer, then send me a private message so we can chat) (seems cheaper than Donalco, Manly Windows, Vision 3) That is for uPVC: = 1.5 x $22627.5 = $33.9k If repairing my existing wood windows is 20-30k (but you say my calc is way off?), and new ones are either 23k or 34k, why not go for this? Remember, I am asking for Restore vs Buy new. Please be kind and help me. Hello John, I was not trying to answer every question, just reply to you with a little help, bearing in mind your comment Quote: Any help/ideas/suggestions, please? Yes, that would be my price, but I can't offer to install in NSW, and you really need an installer to measure and order, so he takes responsibility for the order. Which way you go is an economic decision, based on how much you can pay to have new replacements versus repairing the old. We supply replacement here in Vic, I am sure there will be similar in NSW, but none I know personally. Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Buy new or Restore 5Jun 12, 2014 5:07 pm I replaced the windows (many years ago) in my mother's 1960 house. I replaced existing Aluminium windows with Cedar windows and I also changed the size on the windows by lowering the sills (down to floor level) on the northern elevation and used larger panes of glass but less of them. Not a cheap exercise but the effect was a complete transformation of the appearance of the house. Something to consider. Re: Buy new or Restore 6Jun 12, 2014 6:00 pm ed @ ecoclassic JohnWindows ed @ ecoclassic Google some replacement window companies... get some quotes. Some of your info is way off. Aluminium, estimate say $500 to remove & replace each window, say $400/m2 for the double glazed window incl, arcs and rubbish removal. Add $120/m2 for low-E. PVC is dear in Australia, so add 50%... This is just a guide. Ed Hi Ed, Think you tried to answer some of my question 1. The rest (other 4 questions) you may have missed. I have already received many quotes for replacement windows. Donalco, Manly Windows, Vision 3 - looking at 50k --- AL Commercial (100mm frame size) Windows, expensive IMO, but it does incl some bi-folds, sliding doors, etc. which we do not have at present. Without these it came to some 35k but using combination of ComfortPlus (Low-E) 6.38 and normal 6.38 mm Glass Trend and Stegbar - looking at 30k, or ~ 20k no bi-fold/sliding. --- I would not consider them, small AL frames, questionable fittings, IMO. So, I am not sure how you can say my information is way off when I have not supplied this information. In fact, you are asking me to get this information, so how can it be way off? You may have meant that my other (supplied information as per opening post) is way off. But what information is way off? More details on my info as per opening post: - PLEASE point out what is way off? A joiner quoted me ~$350 per wood sash (with 4mil glaze, and primed). He quoted, I did not guess. I counted my sahes at 50, I did not guess. My carpenter will count but my count says 60% needs to be replaced with new. What is wrong with this? Whitco stays cost ~$50 for a pair stainless steel ones or $22 for zink galvanized (Google it http://www.whitco.com.au/en/site/whitco ... tId=974435 and http://www.scllocks.com.au/whitco-windo ... steel.html). What is wrong with this? Northside Glass & Glazing quoted me via phone ~$330/m2 + gst for Confort Plus 6.38mm and $130/m + gst for 4mm glass. I suspect this is expensive and I can get cheaper. But this was his quote, not my guess. So, tell me, what is wrong with this? Carpenters do not quote for JOBS of these magnitude because there are too many windows and hidden unknowns. Carpenters work by the hour (~$60-$80/hr), same thing for joiners. So what did I guess here? Are you saying that the $20k-30k is way off? Why, and what do you base that on? The cost of the different glazing options were obtained from reading some of the posts on this forum. It was not a WILD guess, and I did indictae where I do not have information. Since it seems like you KNOW the prices (as you clearly say mine is way off), can you give me the prices and the source vendor? 4mil Clear glaze ~ $60/m2 ???? Viridian Smart Glass SP10 clear (Hardcoat Low-E in single sheet) ~ $105/m2 ???? Viridian Smart Glass SP10 clear Toughened (Hardcoat Low-E in single sheet) ~ $xxx/m2 ??/? Viridian Comfort Plus 6.38mm (laminated, Hardcoat Low-E) ~ $130/m2 ???? Double Glazing 3/10/3 (not sure of gaps and thickness or even if I can fit this in my sashes) ~ $225/m2 ???? Double Glazing (Softcoat Low-E in one sheet) ~ $yyyyy/m2 ??? (Seems like I can not buy directly from Viridian. And seems like their customers (vendors selling to the public) has ridiculous markup - I was just quoted $330/m2 for Comfort Plus 6.38mm.) The problem with your suggestion is that it makes a lot of assumptions. And then you add to your assumptions which will result in a bigger variances and estimation errors. ed @ ecoclassic Aluminium, estimate say $500 to remove & replace each window, say $400/m2 for the double glazed window incl, arcs and rubbish removal. Add $120/m2 for low-E. Let me see if I understand you: AL windows - $500 x number of windows = labour cost to remove old & replace with new $400/m2 x m2 of DG (no low-e) windows = material double glazed window incl, arcs and rubbish removal $520/m2 x m2 of DG (with low-e) windows = material double glazed window incl, arcs and rubbish removal My windows: Total = 34.70m2, 12 Windows DG = 11.82m2, 6 Windows DG Low-E: 22.89m2, 6 Windows That is for AL: 500 x 12 = $6000 400 x 11.82 = $4726 520 x 22.89 = $11902 TOTAL = $22627.50 (if this is what you can offer, then send me a private message so we can chat) (seems cheaper than Donalco, Manly Windows, Vision 3) That is for uPVC: = 1.5 x $22627.5 = $33.9k If repairing my existing wood windows is 20-30k (but you say my calc is way off?), and new ones are either 23k or 34k, why not go for this? Remember, I am asking for Restore vs Buy new. Please be kind and help me. Hello John, I was not trying to answer every question, just reply to you with a little help, bearing in mind your comment Quote: Any help/ideas/suggestions, please? Yes, that would be my price, but I can't offer to install in NSW, and you really need an installer to measure and order, so he takes responsibility for the order. Which way you go is an economic decision, based on how much you can pay to have new replacements versus repairing the old. We supply replacement here in Vic, I am sure there will be similar in NSW, but none I know personally. Ed Thanks Ed, Can you contact me via private message. I would be interested in your EcoTherm windows. Am sure we can work on a installer in Sydney. Am more interested in the restore vs new (thought it was quite clear in my post?). Anyway, can you give me some indication of the cost of glazing, a cost per m2? 4mil Clear glaze Viridian Smart Glass SP10 clear (Hardcoat Low-E in single sheet) Viridian Smart Glass SP10 clear Toughened (Hardcoat Low-E in single sheet) Viridian Comfort Plus 6.38mm (Laminated, Hardcoat Low-E) Double Glazing 4/10-20/4 Double Glazing 4/10-20/4 (Softcoat Low-E in inside on outside sheet) Double Graze 4/10-20/4 for windows > 2.5m2 as it needs to be tempered (toughened) Double Glazing 4/10-20/4 (film to do similar/close to Low-E on outside sheet) What about Film ^^^ to keep the radiant heat out of west/north facing windows? I read that some say Low-E is expensive and you can achieve the same (or close) with just using a Film? Is this true? What film would do the job? Am just after some indicative numbers as I agree ~330+gst(33)=$363 for Comfort Plus 6.38mm is taking the peeeee. Restore vs new --- If we can get new windows that does not impede the look of what we have now, but offer better performance (heat retention in winter and radiant heat reflection in summer) at similar cost (23k installed), then it is a straight forward answer (restore vs new), we buy new. Am not expecting you to say what is best (new vs restore), but more on what it cost for new. Maybe some other people can comment on restore..... Thanks Re: Buy new or Restore 7Jun 12, 2014 6:37 pm Beetaloo I replaced the windows (many years ago) in my mother's 1960 house. I replaced existing Aluminium windows with Cedar windows and I also changed the size on the windows by lowering the sills (down to floor level) on the northern elevation and used larger panes of glass but less of them. Not a cheap exercise but the effect was a complete transformation of the appearance of the house. Something to consider. You changed from AL to Wood? Besides appearance? Why? Re: Buy new or Restore 8Jun 12, 2014 9:11 pm Quote: You changed from AL to Wood? Besides appearance? Why? Her house was on the sea front. The anodised aluminium windows had casement sashes. All the winders were rusted & did not work and could not be replaced or repaired. All the fasteners, screws, rivets etc were severely corroded/welded (due to dissimilar metals). All the catches were severely corroded and their fasteners also welded together. Western red cedar does not rust or corrode and metal fasteners into wood can always be replaced. Dissimilar metal fasteners into metal can have electrolytic corrosion in a marine environment which welds them together & they cannot be removed or replaced. Looking at some of the designs on websites, they are all selling very similar products. I get that you want something stylish. It's worth looking for search terms like SaveH2O… 2 7006 A person needs to be licensed to offer financial advice. Surely the accountant you use would have been chosen for his/her expertise in this field. Have you asked your… 1 6732 |