Browse Forums Windows & Doors 1 Nov 21, 2012 11:22 pm Hey.
Building a house and looking to upgrade the windows on one side of the house to double glazing (as it faces a railway about 300m away with nothing but clear space in between). Still haven't gotten a quote yet. What is reasonable to expect in terms of prices? There is basically two windows at 1.2m x 1.8m and a stacking sliding door. The sliding doors are 6 pieces of glass/doors such that the left most and right most stays in the same place and two doors slide on top of them on each side. The total size is 2.1m x 5.3m. We have been having difficulties getting quotes for items and some of them have come in much much higher than we expected, so I was just hoping to get some estimate on how much you'd think would be reasonable to upgrade these items to double glazing? Keeping in mind that we already have them included in the current price for single glazing. If it comes in really high, we might have to try and think of some other ways of reducing noise I grew up in Europe though and I didn't realize that houses existed with single glaze windows until I moved to Australia.. so I can attest that they are definitely much better and makes a lot of sense (except for the crazy prices over here). Also, at which price point would it be cheaper to simply hire someone to replace the windows with double glazing after handover instead of getting credit for the current windows and go through the overpriced builder? Re: Reasonable cost to upgrade to double glazing? 2Nov 22, 2012 6:05 am Depends on the glazing specification, the supplier... and Qld slightly higher. Standard 4mm clear/12mm air/4mm clear, say $400-$700 + builder's margin @ 20% (BM is regulated) Acoustic glazing (6/9/4) maybe double... Replace the products later, say $5,000 Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Reasonable cost to upgrade to double glazing? 3Nov 22, 2012 4:20 pm ed @ ecoclassic Depends on the glazing specification, the supplier... and Qld slightly higher. Standard 4mm clear/12mm air/4mm clear, say $400-$700 + builder's margin @ 20% (BM is regulated) Acoustic glazing (6/9/4) maybe double... Replace the products later, say $5,000 Ed $400-$700 per square metre + possibly 20% extra, ie a total price of $6000-$13.000? So even though I'd get credit for existing glass (+ frames if different ones are needed) you still think it would be significantly cheaper to simply change it later? Unless you are saying that it will cost $700 total for both windows and stacker doors, but that sounds a bit too cheap.. EDIT: yes, I'm in queensland EDIT: found another awesome thread on this forum (a couple of years old) talking about U values as such. The following values are copied form that thread: "normal aluminium - 12.7 thermally improved Al - 8.0 thermally broken Al - 3.8 wooden - 3.1 uPVC - 3.1" I'm looking through the contract, and we are getting "aluminium powdercoated frames". Am I right in my understanding that the powdercoating is just for the color and won't improve the U rating, putting me at the very top of this list? Might have to check costs for upgrading the frames too then, bah.. are thermally broken frames significantly more expensive? Re: Reasonable cost to upgrade to double glazing? 4Nov 22, 2012 8:48 pm The more I read the more confused I get.. some people are stating 4k for double glazed windows for the entire house (which we would definitely go for at that price point), others are saying 50k. Anyway, in regards to aluminium frames being crap, what about our sliding doors? Is it possible to get them in thermally broken aluminium as well and how expensive would that be? Re: Reasonable cost to upgrade to double glazing? 5Nov 23, 2012 9:31 am tompab ed @ ecoclassic Depends on the glazing specification, the supplier... and Qld slightly higher. Standard 4mm clear/12mm air/4mm clear, say $400-$700 + builder's margin @ 20% (BM is regulated) Acoustic glazing (6/9/4) maybe double... Replace the products later, say $5,000 Ed $400-$700 per square metre + possibly 20% extra, ie a total price of $6000-$13.000? So even though I'd get credit for existing glass (+ frames if different ones are needed) you still think it would be significantly cheaper to simply change it later? Unless you are saying that it will cost $700 total for both windows and stacker doors, but that sounds a bit too cheap.. EDIT: yes, I'm in queensland EDIT: found another awesome thread on this forum (a couple of years old) talking about U values as such. The following values are copied form that thread: "normal aluminium - 12.7 thermally improved Al - 8.0 thermally broken Al - 3.8 wooden - 3.1 uPVC - 3.1" I'm looking through the contract, and we are getting "aluminium powdercoated frames". Am I right in my understanding that the powdercoating is just for the color and won't improve the U rating, putting me at the very top of this list? Might have to check costs for upgrading the frames too then, bah.. are thermally broken frames significantly more expensive? Yes, that is total upgrade cost, not per square metre... Yes, powdercoat is just colour. Yes thermally broken will be very expensive... (EcoClassic less so) Why not ask the window supplier for their estimated upgrade cost. Then add 20% and that should be your builder's charge (ignoring his wholesale prices). Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Reasonable cost to upgrade to double glazing? 6Nov 23, 2012 5:23 pm ed @ ecoclassic tompab ed @ ecoclassic Yes, that is total upgrade cost, not per square metre... Yes, powdercoat is just colour. Yes thermally broken will be very expensive... (EcoClassic less so) Why not ask the window supplier for their estimated upgrade cost. Then add 20% and that should be your builder's charge (ignoring his wholesale prices). Ed $700 would be amazing. Even with no thermal benefits, it seems like it would be worth doing the whole house at that price. I've asked builder for quote, but I have no idea who the window supplier is. Since I've got you here, could you give me a ballpark on the "very expensive" thermally broken frames? Are there any other frames we can upgrade to which are less expensive (but still better than the standard frames and worth the extra cost)? The obvious heating/cooling costs aside, I would just love to have a more even indoors temperature. Re: Reasonable cost to upgrade to double glazing? 7Nov 23, 2012 6:01 pm tompab $700 would be amazing. Even with no thermal benefits, it seems like it would be worth doing the whole house at that price. I've asked builder for quote, but I have no idea who the window supplier is. Since I've got you here, could you give me a ballpark on the "very expensive" thermally broken frames? Are there any other frames we can upgrade to which are less expensive (but still better than the standard frames and worth the extra cost)? The obvious heating/cooling costs aside, I would just love to have a more even indoors temperature. Hi The upgrade price assumes the windows are single glazed awnings to double glazed awnings, not sliders to awnings... Estimate double glazed aluminium, say $250/m2 - Total Thermal break aluminium, say $600/m2 (ours maybe $400) - Total It really depends on brand, which products and window sizes. (French doors & bifolds dearer etc.). Our standard double glazing beats most thermally broken windows for energy efficiency. You can check the different brands here... http://www.wers.net/Certified-Products-Residential - ours is number 1. (Some people don't believe that because WERS is very confusing... but I have a document from the Australian Window Association confirming it.) Thanks Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Reasonable cost to upgrade to double glazing? 8Nov 23, 2012 6:38 pm The wers is confusing, but your information is very interesting. So judging by your comments, I take it that we should definitely get awning windows? We currently have aluminium sliding windows. Maybe by simply upgrading to awning windows, it will improve quite a bit and be a bit cheaper than going all the way to thermally broken windows? Re: Reasonable cost to upgrade to double glazing? 9Nov 24, 2012 7:51 am tompab The wers is confusing, but your information is very interesting. So judging by your comments, I take it that we should definitely get awning windows? We currently have aluminium sliding windows. Maybe by simply upgrading to awning windows, it will improve quite a bit and be a bit cheaper than going all the way to thermally broken windows? Most manufacturers don't make sliding windows in double glazed because they have such high air infiltration, that it defeats the purpose. To move from sliding to awning will hardly effect your energy rating, but you need to have awnings to get a good energy performance from your double glazing. So you need awnings first, and that is where a lot of your window upgrade cost will be. That alone should add maybe $50/m2 on top of the figures I gave - the doors are not affected. Thanks Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Reasonable cost to upgrade to double glazing? 10Nov 28, 2012 7:29 pm UPDATE - got prices. They are not fantastic The quote for upgrading the 6 piece stacker door (total 2.1m x 5.3m) was $3608 and then two bedroom windows (2 x 1.2m x 1.8m) came in at $754. Not sure what to do, a lot more than we expected for the doors. This is still the normal window sliding aluminium frames too, did not get a quote for awning and/or thermally broken frames. Would the noise reduction be compromised a lot by using these crappy frames, or is it just the thermal benefits that we will negate? The windows was not as badly priced I guess. If I extrapolate the price of the windows to the whole house, it means that it would cost us $3914 to upgrade all windows in the house to double glazing (plus the $3608 for the stacker door of course). We also don't know what glass it is, besides being double glazed. Therefore, despite clearly stating we wanted double glazing to reduce noise, I assume it is the cheapest one, and not one made for reducing noise (for example, laminated 6mm outer and 4mm inner). We never specified the glass, but we have asked for clarification now. Really need to get this sorted ASAP and let them know exactly what I want to do by the weekend. I will try and call the company they supply their windows from (I got their details) and try and get some quotes for different stuff. What should I do?? The train is about 300m from the back of our house, but it is a clear path (park). The back of our house has the stacker doors and the two bedrooms with windows facing the park. We can hear the train louder than expected when standing on the lot, but it is hard to tell how loud it will be inside the house. Probably won't be too bad, but it will be very difficult to do anything about it later. Should we just upgrade the bedroom windows and nothing else? Should we do bed and stacker doors? Should we do whole house? Should we do whole house AND upgrade to awning frames? Thermally broken? We are really confused Would be nice with proper windows not just for the noise but for the thermal properties as well, I hate how much the indoor temperature fluctuates. We live in Brisbane though, so no one understands what I'm talking about and they think I'm crazy.. anyone in Brisbane with double glazing that can give some input? I know the difference is not as drastic as in colder climates, but I still reckon it would make a pretty big difference. EDIT: the glass/frames are from Trend windows. Here is the WERS page, maybe someone else can understand this data better than me and give some advice: http://werssearch.freehostia.com/tables ... urer=TREND Also found this sheet on their website regarding their frames sound insulation properties. Again I don't really know how to read them as it has two pages, both of which seems to have some of the same frames yet with different numbers. http://www.trendwindows.com.au/Brochure ... _APR09.pdf Re: Reasonable cost to upgrade to double glazing? [PRICE UPD 11Nov 28, 2012 9:15 pm WE did our whole house in the Trend ThermAl windows. From a sound perspective they cut down an enormous amount of sound. They are thermally broken and are cheaper than Trend's quantum range which isn't. Settlement 1/2/12 New Shed 23/3/12 Slab poured 27/3/12 Frame complete 4/5/12 Roof complete 1/6/12 LOCKUP 29/6/12 Our new build blog http://kareenhillsownerbuild.blogspot.com/ Re: Reasonable cost to upgrade to double glazing? [PRICE UPD 12Nov 28, 2012 9:29 pm delatite13 WE did our whole house in the Trend ThermAl windows. From a sound perspective they cut down an enormous amount of sound. They are thermally broken and are cheaper than Trend's quantum range which isn't. Could you give some price examples and specs please? Especially if you got quote for different frames/glass so I can get an idea of the price difference. Thank you! Re: Reasonable cost to upgrade to double glazing? 13Nov 28, 2012 9:43 pm tompab UPDATE - got prices. They are not fantastic The quote for upgrading the 6 piece stacker door (total 2.1m x 5.3m) was $3608 and then two bedroom windows (2 x 1.2m x 1.8m) came in at $754. Wow... I will need to move to Qld... I will publish our full price tomorrow... (not upgrade). Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Reasonable cost to upgrade to double glazing? 14Nov 28, 2012 10:14 pm ed @ ecoclassic Wow... I will need to move to Qld... I will publish our full price tomorrow... (not upgrade). Ed Crazy huh. Any suggestions on what is worth doing? We have to do something, but maybe I'll just upgrade the bedroom windows to double glazing (keeping the sliding aluminium frames) and leave it at that. Just to get the reduced noise benefits and I'll ignore the thermal benefits, which seems very low if keeping the sliding windows. Unless the sliding frame lets all the sound through anyway and I need to upgrade to awning windows for that reason alone. Looking at the WERS ratings I would assume the products I'm getting is doors which are 4/10/4 argon filled, but maybe their full range is not on the WERS site. Seems weird they should not have any which are not argon filled. I also assumed that sliding doors always was laminated, but that doesn't seem to be the case. The windows I would guess are 3/10/3, simply based on what looks cheapest. Again, they might have a different range not listed though. Re: Reasonable cost to upgrade to double glazing? [PRICE UPD 15Nov 29, 2012 10:42 am I don't have the quote for the Quantum range any more but from memory it was about $2K dearer. I don't have individual window prices as we wanted a house lot and I daresay our window sizes will vary greatly to yours, although they were all stock sizes. Best way is simply get a quote from them in the sizes you want in the respective models. No guesswork then. Settlement 1/2/12 New Shed 23/3/12 Slab poured 27/3/12 Frame complete 4/5/12 Roof complete 1/6/12 LOCKUP 29/6/12 Our new build blog http://kareenhillsownerbuild.blogspot.com/ Re: Reasonable cost to upgrade to double glazing? 16Nov 29, 2012 1:24 pm tompab ed @ ecoclassic Wow... I will need to move to Qld... I will publish our full price tomorrow... (not upgrade). Ed Crazy huh. Any suggestions on what is worth doing? We have to do something, but maybe I'll just upgrade the bedroom windows to double glazing (keeping the sliding aluminium frames) and leave it at that. Just to get the reduced noise benefits and I'll ignore the thermal benefits, which seems very low if keeping the sliding windows. Unless the sliding frame lets all the sound through anyway and I need to upgrade to awning windows for that reason alone. Looking at the WERS ratings I would assume the products I'm getting is doors which are 4/10/4 argon filled, but maybe their full range is not on the WERS site. Seems weird they should not have any which are not argon filled. I also assumed that sliding doors always was laminated, but that doesn't seem to be the case. The windows I would guess are 3/10/3, simply based on what looks cheapest. Again, they might have a different range not listed though. Our standard full retail price for your stacker door and AWNING windows, double glazed 4/12/4, best U value in WERS...
Awning 1.2m x 1.8m = $476.00 plus GST ( 2 = $952) Just as sliding windows are poor performers energy wise, they will not be the greatest for stopping noise, same reason, they leak air. Thanks Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Reasonable cost to upgrade to double glazing? [PRICE UPD 17Nov 29, 2012 9:44 pm Thanks for all the great info. I called window company, but they refused to give me any quote over the phone (even though I just wanted one on a single window to give me an idea of price difference between different configurations). They said they would get back to me next week with a quote.. Meanwhile, I've got another question Let's say I were to only get double glazed windows in 1 of the bedrooms, and this bedroom would also get awning style windows as well. Would there be any point at all in even considering thermally broken frames for this room? The rest of the house would have the sliding window single glaze. If the bedroom would get a more even temperature at night, that would be great as I hate how much the temperature fluctuates, but since the air will just leak through the door and whatnot, I'm not sure if it will make any difference whatsoever. Re: Reasonable cost to upgrade to double glazing? [PRICE UPD 18Nov 29, 2012 9:58 pm tompab Thanks for all the great info. I called window company, but they refused to give me any quote over the phone (even though I just wanted one on a single window to give me an idea of price difference between different configurations). They said they would get back to me next week with a quote.. Meanwhile, I've got another question Let's say I were to only get double glazed windows in 1 of the bedrooms, and this bedroom would also get awning style windows as well. Would there be any point at all in even considering thermally broken frames for this room? The rest of the house would have the sliding window single glaze. If the bedroom would get a more even temperature at night, that would be great as I hate how much the temperature fluctuates, but since the air will just leak through the door and whatnot, I'm not sure if it will make any difference whatsoever. Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Reasonable cost to upgrade to double glazing? [PRICE UPD 19Nov 29, 2012 10:10 pm ed @ ecoclassic Single glazed to double glazed = 50% less energy. Double glazed to thermal break = 60% less energy. Hope that makes sense... you just add another 10%. No real economy for the cost. D/G should help smooth the temperature fluctuations. Ed Oh ok, I find that very surprising, I though the heat/cold would just go straight through the aluminium frame considering how well aluminium transfers heat. But if that is the case, then that's good I guess, one less cost to worry about Re: Reasonable cost to upgrade to double glazing? [PRICE UPD 20Nov 30, 2012 1:51 pm tompab ed @ ecoclassic Single glazed to double glazed = 50% less energy. Double glazed to thermal break = 60% less energy. Hope that makes sense... you just add another 10%. No real economy for the cost. D/G should help smooth the temperature fluctuations. Ed Oh ok, I find that very surprising, I though the heat/cold would just go straight through the aluminium frame considering how well aluminium transfers heat. But if that is the case, then that's good I guess, one less cost to worry about But the ratio of aluminium to glass is so low that when you just upgrade the aluminium it has a low impact on the whole window value. A bit like stuffing R5 batts in a couple of metres of your wall when the rest is R3 Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 This is one of the reasons I decided to go overseas for my double glazed windows. As the builder indicated, he's worked on many upmarket builds, these were the most well… 13 19245 Seems good to me. I've been told $4-5k/sqm is reasonable in Perth. 2 11178 Hi Kristy Around $1.7-1.8m or around $4,600/sqm. if you PM me your email I will send you a break up in a spreadsheet so you can get an understanding of the costs for… 1 9964 |