Browse Forums Windows & Doors 1 Mar 21, 2010 9:30 am Hi All, I posted this over in my Build Post, but it might be better done here. Anyway, this is the story: Council has requested that I remove the Corner Bi-Folds as I cannot provide a screen to the Bi-Folds to satisfy the AS3959 requirements for building in a bushfire prone area... I can understand the reasoning, but also cannot believe that there are NO screens that I could install... I am sure there are screens, but the corner seems to be the biggest issue, ie not having a post to lock the screen onto. If anyone knows of any screen companies I can talk to about this, please let me know. I need to let the builder know on Monday as to what I am doing. Not their requirement, but mine. The builders suppliers do not do screens... Council have said that this is the only thing holding up the application. Also only have 30 days to respond to Council. My other alternatives are to install a corner stacker, but still have the same situation with the screens, as apparently all the screen companies I have spoken to, need something to lock the screen onto, like the Bi-Folds. I was hoping that I might be able to use a removable type post, that could then be removed if necessary to open up the house. Haven't had much luck with that either. The other alternative is that I put in a post on the corner, and just have two regular bi-fold type doors. Kinda defeats the purpose though, so would probably end up dropping the bi-folds altogether and just go with stackers, or something. Anyway, not happy, but if anyone can think of anything I could try, or have come up against something similar, and how they solved it would be appreciated. Cheers Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: Corner Bi-Fold Doors with Screens? 2Mar 21, 2010 11:48 am I also asked this question a little while ago as we are having a corner stacker unit but would like to have flyscreens for when you just open one part of the door at least. I am very interested to hear of any answers you get. K Building at Sierra Estate. Re: Corner Bi-Fold Doors with Screens? 3Mar 21, 2010 2:05 pm Impossible I think with a bifold door, as the screens need to be rigid stainless steel of bronze for fire areas. Bifold screens are roller type, fibreglass, and won't do at all. Easy with stackers as these take the rigid screens - but make sure that your brand takes a flyscreen, most don't (ours does but we are in Melbourne). Find out whose stacker doors you are using and ask them if they do screens for corner stackers. Then ask some flyscreen people too, to get a sensible price. Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Corner Bi-Fold Doors with Screens? 4Mar 23, 2010 9:39 pm Yeah I'd go the stacker route if you cannot get the bi-folds not as good but a decent compromise. Not exactly sure how the screens help against a bushfire though... Re: Corner Bi-Fold Doors with Screens? 5Mar 28, 2010 2:53 pm ed @ EcoClassic Impossible I think with a bifold door, as the screens need to be rigid stainless steel of bronze for fire areas. Bifold screens are roller type, fibreglass, and won't do at all. Easy with stackers as these take the rigid screens - but make sure that your brand takes a flyscreen, most don't (ours does but we are in Melbourne). Find out whose stacker doors you are using and ask them if they do screens for corner stackers. Then ask some flyscreen people too, to get a sensible price. Ed Thanks Ed. Still have the builder looking at it, although they are not filling me with confidence. Feels like they are wanting to do as little as possible. Anyway, at this stage think I will just do away with the corner stacker/bifold. Get them to put in their standard design, but provide the extra support in the ceiling (which they apparently need to do for a corner bifold/stacker, so that I can do something "down the track". Why don't you sell in Sydney! Zerosignal Yeah I'd go the stacker route if you cannot get the bi-folds not as good but a decent compromise. Not exactly sure how the screens help against a bushfire though... I do agree to some extent. If I have a bushfire coming at my house, I think I am going to have more to worry about than embers, but then again, it would be one less thing to have to worry about. That is the reasoning for screens in bushfire prone areas, to keep embers out, or so they say. Have to have an opening of less than 2mm and be constructed of steel, etc. Re: Corner Bi-Fold Doors with Screens? 6Mar 28, 2010 3:59 pm try PM deletedpenguin - having a similar problem - I'm not sure how he's solving it. After 4 years - we're in! Re: Corner Bi-Fold Doors with Screens? 7Mar 28, 2010 8:16 pm Hi, I'd challenge the theory that Bi-folding doors are the 'best', and that stacking sliding is a compromise. Unless you really must have an entire area (wall/window) that can be opened. Sure, when opened, being able to look at your view or outdoor area 'almost' uninterrupted is lovely. We soon found while researching doors, the drawbacks far outweigh the positives. While we don't need to fire rate our place, we MUST have the facility for flyscreens, this is imperative. We do not want insects / cats / dogs / the little ones moving in and out whenever they want to. There are some great stacking door units, providing you almost as much flexibility in terms of opening, but more versatility. Plans Done Feb 2010 Permit Done 23 April. Set out Done. Scrape and Excavations Done. Footings Done May 10th. Now, to find a brickie.Got one! Sub-floor bricks & Garage Done - 13th June Sub-floor installed 28 June (?) Re: Corner Bi-Fold Doors with Screens? 8Mar 29, 2010 4:14 pm I love those doors we are having them in our new house hopefully (building with Eden Brea). I have checked out your blog and your plans are awesome. I have looked into flyscreens for these doors and there are lots of options for vertical roller blinds (for openings upto 3m). But none are fire resistant. I think your best bet would be to challenge the ruling and see if you can get a special exemption on the screens (and then fit what is currently available after the build). I have no experience with challenging this ruling (maybe others do) but I know commercial developments get special exemptions all the time from the NSW Fire Brigade. If you can show there is another solution to fire proofing that area (double glazed doors, fire retardant treatment?) or that there is little risk you may get an exemption - (I believe the Rural Fire Service are responsible for these regulations). Good Luck. Building an Eden Brae Saville 27 http://karry327.blogspot.com/ Building thread https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=44247 Re: Corner Bi-Fold Doors with Screens? 9Mar 29, 2010 6:20 pm HSV216 messaged me yesterday, and I figured I'd post what I sent across to him here, so others can hopefully benefit as well. If I can save one more person from the hassle that we went through, it'd justify the almost month delay we experienced... "How frustrating. I know exactly what you're going through, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. We employed EcoLogical Australia as our bushfire consultants and they were actually the ones that recommended the Merbau solution. The problem with the original doors is that the standard wood that is used in the doors isn't bushfire tested. Merbau however is tested up to Level 3, and is more than appropriate. The cost increase was around $5,000 or so, but worth it (plus Merbau will age better and not warp as quickly). The reason we went this route is that we didn't want a pillar either, and this solution doesn't require screens. Ecological is really who ended up getting across the line, so if it doesn't work going straight to Council about the issue, use these guys. They turned stuff around for us really quickly." Stefan Building the M3tr!con Liberty 42 at Stonecutters Ridge. The New Build Blog - "Life, In Progress." Stonecutters Ridge Community Website | My photos Re: Corner Bi-Fold Doors with Screens? 11Mar 30, 2010 6:28 am Good to hear there is a way around this problem. It made no sense anyway as all the fly screens I saw went inside the door-jamb. If you don't want to change you timber (or spend an extra $500) maybe consider this; http://www.infolink.com.au/c/Fire-Retar ... ies-p15670 This retardant is clear and brings timbers upto AS 3959, developed by CSIRO to treat timber on homes in bushfire areas. I haven't seen or used it but worth looking into. Building an Eden Brae Saville 27 http://karry327.blogspot.com/ Building thread https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=44247 Re: Corner Bi-Fold Doors with Screens? 12Jun 03, 2012 10:06 am Quote: I do agree to some extent. If I have a bushfire coming at my house, I think I am going to have more to worry about than embers, but then again, it would be one less thing to have to worry about. That is the reasoning for screens in bushfire prone areas, to keep embers out, or so they say. Have to have an opening of less than 2mm and be constructed of steel, etc. Hi all - i was looking into bi-folds and bushfire when I came across this thread. Is this the reason that you cannot have bi folds in BAL areas because you cannot screen them? I must say if there was a bushfire coming I wouldn't have the bi-folds open anyway so I do not see how embers could get inside (screen or not)! Building McDonald Jones Bronte Manor One Contracts Signed Dec 12 DA Lodged Jan 13 DA Consent w/BAL40 Apr 13. S96 Consent w/BAL19 May 13. Slab Complete Jun 13. Frame Brick & Roof Complete Aug 13. Re: Corner Bi-Fold Doors with Screens? 13Jun 04, 2012 9:13 pm Although it appears this particular issue is solved ... what if, in the diagram above, the flyscreen was on the OUTSIDE of the alfresco? I've seen some really neat screens recntly for closing-off an outdoor area, from simple near-seethrough flyscreens to those meshes that offer UV protection as well; surely if you fitted a non-melty (ie. metallic) lowering screen across the whole outside-opening to the alfresco that'd offer MORE anti-ember protection to your house than screens between the house & alfresco? Re: Corner Bi-Fold Doors with Screens? 14Jun 06, 2012 3:06 pm Hi Forg, I've since done some more research on this. The best info I've come across is from the Australian Window Association. They've published a guide to window and doors in bushfire prone areas that is quite comprehensive. See this URL: www.awa.org.au/LiteratureRetrieve.aspx?ID=48111 Using this guide and in answer to your question I reckon if the flyscreen completely closed it off then it is suitable in BAL12.5 scenario: Option 2: Standard [windows/doors] can be used provided they are completely protected by external metal mesh screens with a maximum aperture of 2mm. Screen must be steel, bronze or aluminium wire. Building McDonald Jones Bronte Manor One Contracts Signed Dec 12 DA Lodged Jan 13 DA Consent w/BAL40 Apr 13. S96 Consent w/BAL19 May 13. Slab Complete Jun 13. Frame Brick & Roof Complete Aug 13. Hi everyone. I am a single mother with little daughter, living in a small tourist town in WA Australia. I am thinking to install security screens to all the doors and… 0 33070 4 14876 |