Browse Forums Windows & Doors 1 Oct 04, 2010 1:49 pm Hello all, I have pretty much decided to get a set of secondary windows installed over my front windows facing onto a busy 4 lane secondary road, purely for noise control. I considered making my own magnetite style perspex seals but they weren't that cheap and would rather they look semi normal and easy to clean etc. After going to a few local window places they did not seem to have much of a clue about secondary windows and I am reluctant to go with them in case they put incorrect seals or install it badly. So, I got a couple of quotes for secondary windows from companies that advertise in the sound control area. I have two 2.8 by 1.2m windows. They are wooden double hung windows. There is 65mm of reveal left on the interior that they will fix the windows to. The quote I am considering (they were all similar, this one sounded best to me) is for both windows, a three panel aluminium sliding window with 10.38mm laminated glass. Just over $3000 for both installed. Just wondering if this is in the ballpark for a fair price. The local window places quoted me considerable less (about $500 per window from memory) but for supply only and I have no idea what seals/hardware etc they use and as they didn't know what a secondary window was and why I would want one I was wary. Anyway, thoughts? Thanks miloolimm Re: Quote for secondary windows 2Oct 05, 2010 7:32 pm Hi, Yes secondary windows will give you the best results for acoustic performance. Yes magnetite or DIY similar is the cheapest option. The best results, however can be had with asymmetric glazing of thick laminated glass on a frame with acoustic sealing. Neither top hung nor sliding windows ordinarily have acoustic seals, without acoustic (rubber) seals, the insulation value of the window is affected considerably. Basically, when you close the window you will want a markedly different atmosphere in terms of noise insulation, the difference will be most pronounced with an (acoustically) sealed window. I would go for a tilt and turn window, and you can even have a double glazed secondary window. To give you an idea of the cost difference, two upvc tilt and turn windows of that size, double glazed with 10.38 & 6.38 glass would cost about $3,000 supply only from us. You can expect a performance of at least 42dB with that. If you are on a busy road of about 80dB noise level that is basically halving the noise. You could even improve this slightly by increasing the PVB layer on the glass to say 10.76 instead of 10.38 and using 8.76 instead of 6.38; or you can even go to 12mm glass. The acoustic performance varies depending on the type of noise the window is exposed to; high frequency noise (if there is a school nearby) is treated differently to low frequency noise (buses). So when considering glazing, we normally check the range of frequencies the window is most likely to be exposed to. Cheers, Sydney Double (and now Triple) Glazed Windows and Doors mob 0412 717 066 Sydney, Canberra, Newcastle, Wollongong www.doubleglazedwindows.net.au Re: Quote for secondary windows 3Oct 05, 2010 9:44 pm Windowfactory ... Yes secondary windows will give you the best results for acoustic performance. Yes magnetite or DIY similar is the cheapest option... Yes and no... Magnetite is extremely expensive Windowfactory ... You can expect a performance of at least 42dB with that. If you are on a busy road of about 80dB noise level that is basically halving the noise... The dB scale is logarithmic and every 3dB is a doubling or halving of sound level, though perceived sound levels are different. I believe that a secondary double glazed window would be not only the the best option in terms of performance, but also I think in terms of cost, compared to the brand mentioned. Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Quote for secondary windows 4Oct 06, 2010 8:00 am Thanks for the replies. I will definately be going for a secondary window as I want maximum noise insulation in a bang for buck scenario. Interesting points about the rubber acoustic seals. I will check what my quote is supplying. I think I will also be giving windowfactory a call to see what they can offer. I think tilt and turn sounds like a good idea too as I will only need to open the windows infrequently for cleaning. It is too noisy to ever have them open for ventilation. I will be getting ducted aircon to overcome that. Incidentally I have already changed the 2mm float glass in the sash windows to 10.38mm laminated glass. I have a glazier mate who did this relatively cheaply (about $400 for each whole window). It made a difference but not as much as I had hoped. I also swapped out a hollow core door with small window to a 45mm solid wood door fitted with Raven architectual acoustic seals. That has made a significant difference however some noise still comes in the door. I am on a VERY busy road with lots of trucks and buses unfortunately. The noise is closer to 90dB I think from the road (using an iphone app that I think has some accuracy. I may purchase a proper digital SPL meter from Jaycar to double check) and a lot of it is low frequency. I looked on your website windowfactory and am very interesed in those PVC doors you have. I was considering putting a second front door on to create a small chamber between the doors to stop noise. My house is ideally suited to this as the front door is set 1.5m back down a small alcove and it would be easy I think to install another door here at the opening. A see through one would be perfect as 2 wooden doors may look a bit weird. Thanks for the advice miloolimm edit: Oh, by the way I am located in the inner west of Sydney otherwise I would also give Ed a call, however I believe you are located in Melbourne? Re: Quote for secondary windows 5Oct 06, 2010 4:29 pm Another area of concern with replacement acoustic windows is installation. We find that a lot of customers are tempted by the a cheap installation when they buy top of the range windows - this can be counterproductive, because using inferior quality- and less of- gap fillers and sealants can compromise the performance of the window just as much as a lack of a rubber seal. Some customers that had independent tradespeople or builders install cheaply, but they did not completely seal the windows, left gaps and cavities. In one job, the explanation provided was that the customer wanted the cheapest installation possible, and where expanding foam costs $50 per can and 10 were required, the customer opted not to use the recommended amount and only paid for what was advised as the bare minimum: 2. We felt in this case that the windows could have performed much better had the installation been thorough. This is not so much of an issue in your case, since you are considering secondary windows, but it may explain why increasing the glass thickness did not have the desired effect. The windows can be fully functional (close completely) but often only a close inspection will reveal thin gaps or cavities. One does not know whether the installation of your existing windows was performed with acoustic insulation in mind. But ultimately, at the moment you have single glazed windows, and the best results for acoustic performance is with secondary windows and less so with double glazing. Happy to provide you with a quote - we are very price competitive in Sydney (but not cheap - we don't import from China). Does your existing front door open inside or outside? Cheers, Sydney Double (and now Triple) Glazed Windows and Doors mob 0412 717 066 Sydney, Canberra, Newcastle, Wollongong www.doubleglazedwindows.net.au Re: Quote for secondary windows 6Oct 06, 2010 10:16 pm Thanks windowfactory for your advice. I'll give your company a call tomorrow. Just out of interest for myself and maybe those reading this thread, you said earlier the two windows I mentioned would be $3000 supply only. What ball park figure would installation be for the two? As for my door it open inwards. We currently have a security screen door which opens outwards on the same jamb (hope that terminology is correct). I presume we could just put one of your acoustic double glazed casement doors in its place. There is a bit of a step up and room surrounding the door so I assume you could set it so you didn't have to step over the sill as it were. I noticed your doors fit into a frame that is fairly thick all the way around that it closes and seals into. I mean you could have the casement door sill so it was located under where the current sill (7cm step up) is located? Anyway, will call and discuss. By the way I must congratulate you on your companies web site. It is the most informative and comprehensive website I have seen in relation to windows and acoustic treatments especially. It can be quite hard to source information on sound insulation and secondary glazing in general on the internet. So well done. Regards Miloolimm Re: Quote for secondary windows 7Oct 08, 2010 11:56 am Hi, Thanks for your continued interest. Installation for secondary windows of that size $250 per item. Door can be $450-500. Yes, possible, but I would need to have a look at it before confirming. Ultimately, some jobs require a builder's expertise. I can find time in the next two weeks to inspect and measure myself, if you like - alternatively can get a surveyor to do it more urgently. The girls will send you a quote and make an appointment. Thanks for your feedback, we are still researching and adding information to it, but glad all the hard work is appreciated. Cheers, Sydney Double (and now Triple) Glazed Windows and Doors mob 0412 717 066 Sydney, Canberra, Newcastle, Wollongong www.doubleglazedwindows.net.au Re: Quote for secondary windows 8Oct 11, 2010 8:53 pm Thanks windowfactory, I have recieved the quote from your company and am mulling it over. Have decided not to go with an acoustic door however due to the cost. Will put another solid wood door with acoustic seals on in front of the other and just put up with the aesthetics. Will only know when the doors are open anyway as they are not see through. To be honest the quotes are probably stretching me for funds. Will have to think hard on it because I also don't want to spend a significant amount doing it cheaper and having a substandard result. May just have to save for a while before proceeding. Just one query though, can you provide the windows without the glazing? That is the window frames and hardware only. I have a friend who has a glazing business and he can get me glass quite cheaply. Also could I pick the windows up from your factory to save on delivery costs? Cheers Miloolimm P.S. I'll probably just ring you anyway to discuss. Re: Quote for secondary windows 9Oct 12, 2010 5:46 pm About your door, my experience suggest that our doors would give you better results, but sure, if you are motivated by cost, a wooden door may be more appropriate for your needs. Ok to supply windows without glass, I'll arrange for a quote on that. You can pick them up too, depending on your vehicle, we can pack them so they are not damaged during the trip. Cheers, Sydney Double (and now Triple) Glazed Windows and Doors mob 0412 717 066 Sydney, Canberra, Newcastle, Wollongong www.doubleglazedwindows.net.au hey there! 😊 so, it’s kinda common for standard drawer depths to be around 500mm since most cabinets use this size to fit the usual runners… 3 20906 I was being kind to the builder. With the amount charged for the upgrade the builder is probably charging closer to 100% margin. There are a few variables as I… 5 14314 I had 28m2 of engineered pavers laid six months back and it was difficult to find someone not taking the pi$$. Internet suggested it should be $85-100/m2 to lay them.… 3 12390 |