All you need to know.
http://www.selector.com/company/Trend_W ... and__Doors
Browse Forums Windows & Doors 1 Oct 08, 2007 2:19 pm Internal and External Building and Colour Consultant Online - Worldwide http://www.denovoconcepts.com Re: Window info from Trend 2Oct 12, 2007 6:43 pm Michelle One of the "best" solutions offered here is to use Comfortplus glass. Michelle go into a showroom a put your finger prints on this glass then try and clean it. Let me know how u go! : DQQ Never argue with an idiot!!!! They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. Re: Window info from Trend 3Oct 12, 2007 6:46 pm Can’t do that, we don’t have a show room where I am! But I will look into it.
So, is it too hard to clean? Internal and External Building and Colour Consultant Online - Worldwide http://www.denovoconcepts.com Re: Window info from Trend 4Oct 12, 2007 6:50 pm oh yeh
and while the energy software indicates it will give you a benefit anyone with any "industry" experience knows that Low E glass is beneficial only in double glazed applications not in single glazed options. I do everything to change the customers mind with this ( and it costs the world) and only supply as a last resort and customer demand!! (hey if they want to waste their money) DQQ Never argue with an idiot!!!! They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. Re: Window info from Trend 5Oct 12, 2007 6:54 pm Trying to remember WHY I posted the window link to start with!
Probably to help people with selections…… Thanks for your advice! Hopefully others will take notice. Internal and External Building and Colour Consultant Online - Worldwide http://www.denovoconcepts.com Re: Window info from Trend 6Oct 14, 2007 9:47 pm 'and while the energy software indicates it will give you a benefit anyone with any "industry" experience knows that Low E glass is beneficial only in double glazed applications not in single glazed options.'
"I keep hearing this statement without any backup. I'm starting to think it's an old wives tale" Peter Clarkson - AusDesign Australia www.ausdesign.com.au This information is intended to provide general information only. It does not purport to be a comprehensive advice. Re: Window info from Trend 7Oct 23, 2007 4:06 pm ausdesign 'and while the energy software indicates it will give you a benefit anyone with any "industry" experience knows that Low E glass is beneficial only in double glazed applications not in single glazed options.' "I keep hearing this statement without any backup. I'm starting to think it's an old wives tale" Gee must have missed this but I will try and reply Most of the data comes from the USA or Europe and has been independantly accepted there for over 20 years. Digging out research papers from the early 1980's took a bit of time. I think Aust is the only country that puts Low "E" glass in single glazing (happy to be proved wrong here) Try the following sites: http://btech.lbl.gov/ http://www.efficientwindows.org/links.cfm Building Technologies Department Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory Mail Stop 90R3111 Berkeley, CA 94720 you can get research reports (as i said from the early 80's) from there. If anyone is interested in thermally efficient windows use double glazed (alum, timber, pvc) with Low "E" hard coating. The benefit you will obtain with single glazed Low "E" does not compare to the comfort and real savings with the double glazed option. (and you still pay a huge amount for the Low "E" coated product) As always this is only my view and I stand to be corrected In a heating climate (Melb) really the only way to go if you can afford it. I currently have single glazed timber windows and with our extension will be putting in double glazed aluminium with Low "E" coating and if i can afford it will reglaze the timber windows DQQ Never argue with an idiot!!!! They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. Re: Window info from Trend 8Oct 30, 2007 3:44 pm DuckyQuackQuack [If anyone is interested in thermally efficient windows use double glazed (alum, timber, pvc) with Low "E" hard coating. DQQ, Did you mean hard or soft coating? Cheers, Casa Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Window info from Trend 9Oct 31, 2007 6:22 am Casa2
In a heating climate like Melbourne you want a Low E glass that has a High Solar gain to take advantage of passive solar heat gain then you would use a "hard" or pyrolytic coating (SHGC of 0.71 - 71% of solar heat is transmitted) In a cooling climate like Queensland the opposite "soft" or sputtered coating. (SHGC of 0.39) Visible light transmitted is slightly higher with a hard vs soft coating U value is clearly lower with the "soft" (about 8% better in window) but it is a combination of this and the SHGC (Solar heat gain Coefficient) that determine which window is best for which location. And of course they have Moderate Solar Gain coating as well I am currently setting up a Double Glazed Facility in Melbourne and am trialing both types Dont know if this helps but thats my understanding (limited as it is) As always I am happy to be corrected DQQ Never argue with an idiot!!!! They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. Re: Window info from Trend 10Oct 31, 2007 7:53 am DQQ,
Thanks for the info. I didn't know that the hard/soft low-e coating had an effect on SHGC. You live and learn. I just knew that the soft coating had a lower (better) e value and that means more heat is reflected. Of course, soft coatings can only be on the inside edge of a glass otherwise they would rub off. I'm in the same school as you. You need double glazing to get reasonable performance. The low-e coating is the next step. There's probably no need to go to the next step of "thick" gases such as argon. It's just plain physics. I think people should stop asking for high performance windows (qualitative measure) and start quantitative measures. This way, I don't care if they use ComfortPlus glass or you just apply the right chant to a normal piece of glass. What I'm after is a Uw value of 3.0 W/m2.K or better. While I've got you, I'll tell you my requirements for one of the more important items in my design. I haven’t started looking for it in earnest, but home shows and the Home Ideas Centre didn’t provide a solution. I've got two 4 metre wide by 2.7 metre high opening that are at an outside angle of 120 degrees if you know what I mean. These openings look onto a view so I want the window/door arrangement to be as unobtrusive as possible. This rules out bifold doors since there are many thick vertical breaks to the view. Instead I'm looking for one fixed pane and one sliding pane, preferably of 2 metres wide each. I hope you've got a rough picture in your mind of what I'm after. The requirements are: 1) Uw value of 3.0 W/m.K or less. 2) Anodised aluminium frame. 3) Fixed pane + door over a 4.0 metre wide by 2.7 m high opening (preferably 2.0 metres each so that the door in the open position lines up with the centre post). 4) The door opening base to be such that it is flush with the floor. That is, it is possible to push a trolley from inside to outside (or a wheelchair for when I’m old and grey). 5) Must look good (oops, I've used a qualitative measure). Can you do it? If so, I'll have two thanks (but I want to keep both arms and legs). The doors have deep weather protection so no direct rain would ever hit the door section. Notice, I haven't mentioned double glazing or thermally broken aluminium, but I don't think a Uw value of 3 can be achieved without these two measures. Cheers, Casa Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Window info from Trend 11Oct 31, 2007 11:23 am I'm currently looking into double glazing. We will be building in South West WA (Nannup) where it's pretty cold for most of the year and probably gets around the low 30s at most in the summer.
Thus far building companies seem to like pointing out how expensive double glazing is, one even told us that it has to come from Europe & we'd be looking at a minimum of $30k (I found at least two companies that make them in Perth). The other said that they had just been through that with a client and the windows are made in odd sizes and it means cutting too many bricks which they didn't want to do. They seem to point towards "comfort glass" instead. I'm not even sure what comfort glass is, but certainly seems that double glazing is not in favour. Would "comfort glass" still be a better choice over standard windows to * avoid downsizing windows to meet the 5 star rating * provide more efficient thermal properties (minimise heat loss in the winter) whilst avoiding the use of heavy drapes with pelmets. Re: Window info from Trend 12Oct 31, 2007 11:39 am I don't understand why builders keep talking people out of double glazing. When you look at the total cost over 10 years, you are way in front with double glazing.
And what's with this "comfort glass". It's like going to buy a car to travel to work and told, don't worry, we'll supply you with a bicycle. No, I asked for a car! Can I please request that next time someone asks for double glazing and the builder says, OK, we'll give you "comfort glass" that you politely step forward and slap them. If enough of us do this then maybe builders will stop the cr@p. But be careful, if the builder starts looking like they enjoy being slapped then it might be best to stop. Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Window info from Trend 13Oct 31, 2007 2:11 pm It wasn't really a case of the builder straight out saying that they would give us comfort glass instead. It's more of a line like "I don't want to put you off double glazing, but...." And it ends in presenting other options such as comfort glass.
It gave me the impression that they were not that keen on double glazing. I suppose it comes from the fact that a lot of people are mainly cost driven, so the builders are probably all too used to catering for that crowd, and maybe it's just their way of braking the fact that double glazing is the expensive option, but they can provide cheaper alternatives. Maybe it's as simple as getting more margin out of installing other products. I personally wouldn't have a clue, however I do tend to research topics to death as I like to know what I'm buying. Re: Window info from Trend 14Oct 31, 2007 3:57 pm Pebble It wasn't really a case of the builder straight out saying that they would give us comfort glass instead. It's more of a line like "I don't want to put you off double glazing, but...." And it ends in presenting other options such as comfort glass. It gave me the impression that they were not that keen on double glazing. I suppose it comes from the fact that a lot of people are mainly cost driven, so the builders are probably all too used to catering for that crowd, and maybe it's just their way of braking the fact that double glazing is the expensive option, but they can provide cheaper alternatives. Maybe it's as simple as getting more margin out of installing other products. I personally wouldn't have a clue, however I do tend to research topics to death as I like to know what I'm buying. Pebble, From what I can gather, double glazing should not be that much more expensive. EcoClassic/Ed in other parts of this forum talks about, from memory, only adding $5,000 to the cost of a typical house. Again from memory, in Europe, double glazing only costs a little bit extra. Here, for reasons I can only speculate about, the price is much higher. I'm certain double glazing will be standard for houses in 5 years time. We just need to get over this hump. Once double glazing is mainstream, the price diferenetial should come down. Think about it. The following are the same: * Installation cost * Main Frame cost * first pane of glass What's different: * second pane of glass * additional framing * dessicant/separator Form a logic point of view, assuming the same frame quality, it should only cost about 20% more to get double glazing. Builders shouldn't even be mentioning Comfort Glass when someone asks for double glazing. Cheers, Casa (liking double glazing, but will not be paying double pricing) Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Window info from Trend 15Oct 31, 2007 4:16 pm Thanks Casa2, a very good explanation and also handy to also explain it to my husband since this is the first time we have given thought to such things.
I came across pricing from Eco Classic on this forum just today & it certainly looked good to me. I will be pursuing an actual quote for sure once we have chosen a builder and a house plan and have all the window sizes. Well we did have all that chosen however have since changed our minds and decided that we better shop around and be certain of our choice. I guess that's the thing, the cost needs to be compared to how much the standard windows are costing. If it's $20k to put in all the standard windows and $30k to put in double glazed instead well that doesn't sound so bad. I am not certain weather the first builder said it would be $30k on top of the price or $30k all up - something we would need to clear up. Another question not quite related: Are awning windows pretty good in relation to allowing air flow and breeze through the house (for the given size of the window) compared to say sliding windows which open up 50% of the used space? Re: Window info from Trend 16Oct 31, 2007 7:29 pm Pebble,
I like sliding windows since, as you've mentioned, they allow plenty of air flow. One of the advantages of awning windows is that they can be left openevenif it rains (or threatens to rain while you're away). I also imagine that awning windows canbe made to seal better than sliding windows. My choice is sliding windows, butthat's mainly because that's what I'm used to . Cheers, Casa P.S. DQQ, I hope you saw my question further up. Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Window info from Trend 17Nov 01, 2007 4:31 am Thanks Casa,
Yes I can see pluses and minuses for both. We have mostly lived in rental houses and quite a few o them with sliding windows, and with that came the cleaning of all the tracks when it was moving time. I just remembered a place in Darwin, it had a good compromise. Iit was a sliding window which opened by sliding upwards. So a cross between sliding & awning - in that it's long & narrow like awning windows would be for looks. We are likely to have verandas around most of the house so rain shouldn't be an issue, LOL it was in Darwin big time if that exposed window was left open! Apologies for taking the thread off topic, better keep it back on topic now... Casa's Question for DQQ... Quote: While I've got you, I'll tell you my requirements for one of the more important items in my design. I haven’t started looking for it in earnest, but home shows and the Home Ideas Centre didn’t provide a solution. I've got two 4 metre wide by 2.7 metre high opening that are at an outside angle of 120 degrees if you know what I mean. These openings look onto a view so I want the window/door arrangement to be as unobtrusive as possible. This rules out bifold doors since there are many thick vertical breaks to the view. Instead I'm looking for one fixed pane and one sliding pane, preferably of 2 metres wide each. I hope you've got a rough picture in your mind of what I'm after. The requirements are: 1) Uw value of 3.0 W/m.K or less. 2) Anodised aluminium frame. 3) Fixed pane + door over a 4.0 metre wide by 2.7 m high opening (preferably 2.0 metres each so that the door in the open position lines up with the centre post). 4) The door opening base to be such that it is flush with the floor. That is, it is possible to push a trolley from inside to outside (or a wheelchair for when I’m old and grey). 5) Must look good (oops, I've used a qualitative measure). Re: Window info from Trend 18Nov 01, 2007 8:37 pm Hey Casa
Sorry did miss the post. This is certainly not the type of work I would normally look at (for a number of reasons) and would likely cost a fair bit. Sorry I cant really be of further assistance on this but if you get someone in NSW to do (i have factories in Qld, Vic and SA) I am happy to review your quote to make sure you are not getting ripped off Good luck DQQ Never argue with an idiot!!!! They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. Re: Window info from Trend 19Nov 01, 2007 8:55 pm Thanks DQQ for the offer of reviewing the quote.
Who are the larger/more capable NSW window manufacturers? I'm thinking Trend and Capral Commercial, but these are just names I've heard in passing. Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Window info from Trend 20Nov 01, 2007 9:30 pm Quote: If enough of us do this then maybe builders will stop the cr@p. It's all about fear of the unkown casa - eventually they will learn that it's needed. Quote: So a cross between sliding & awning - in that it's long & narrow like awning windows would be for looks. We are likely to have verandas around most of the house so rain shouldn't be an issue, Good thoughts. Just think of the other things.... Steve 3 47414 that will depend on the kitchen bench depth. you'll have to specify it so it allows for both the tap and the sink 1 7379 |