Browse Forums Windows & Doors 1 Apr 10, 2010 1:50 pm I've just been to the home ideas show (thanks H1) and was surprised at the number of uPVC windows. We had some conflicting advice (of course) about how fire resistant uPVC windows are. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Our BAL assessment will be 29 or 40 ....most likely BAL-40. Building on an acre in Macedon ......one day. Re: uPVC and bush fire rating 2Apr 10, 2010 2:00 pm Basically - Steel reinforced UPVC to BAL 29 Metal windows to BAL 40 See... http://www.bsa.qld.gov.au/SiteCollectio ... 0Areas.pdf Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: uPVC and bush fire rating 3Apr 11, 2010 8:23 pm Thanks Ed. Building on an acre in Macedon ......one day. Re: uPVC and bush fire rating 4Apr 13, 2010 9:49 pm Hi, I gave a presentation on AS:3959-2009 (Construction of Buildings in Bushfire-Prone Areas) and my advice would be to run with aluminium windows, for cost reasons. Metal reinforced uPVC and fire resistant timber is VERY costly compared to an aluminium window with metal hardware. Given you have suggested the requirement will be BAL-40 uPVC will be out of the question indefinitely. If you have any other questions regarding AS:3959 please don't hesitate to contact me. Re: uPVC and bush fire rating 5Apr 14, 2010 12:27 pm Blue & Yellow Hi, I gave a presentation on AS:3959-2009 (Construction of Buildings in Bushfire-Prone Areas) and my advice would be to run with aluminium windows, for cost reasons. Metal reinforced uPVC and fire resistant timber is VERY costly compared to an aluminium window with metal hardware. Given you have suggested the requirement will be BAL-40 uPVC will be out of the question indefinitely. If you have any other questions regarding AS:3959 please don't hesitate to contact me. RE BAL-29... You can always check the prices beforehand. I think mostly the answer is correct, but I don't think it is the whole answer. Prices vary a great deal in our industry. I can put you in touch with prices for all 3. Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: uPVC and bush fire rating 6Apr 14, 2010 8:14 pm Thanks Blue and Yellow, and Ed. I think we'll proabably go with aluminium, regardless of our BAL assessment. Does anyone make a thermally broken aluminium window that would rate to BAL 40? And that is double glazed? (Don't want much, do I?!) Building on an acre in Macedon ......one day. Re: uPVC and bush fire rating 7Apr 14, 2010 9:36 pm ------------------------------ AS:3959-2009 BAL-40 WINDOWS 8.5.2 (b) (i) Window frames and hardware shall be metal. DOORS (side hung external) 8.5.3 (b) (i) Doors shall be; (A) non-combustible; or (B) solid timber door with min thickness of 35mm and protected externally by a screen door with either stainless steel or bronze wire mesh; or (C) a fully framed glazed door where the frame is made of a non-combustible material and the glass is minimum 6mm toughened 8.5.3 (b) (vi) Door frames shall be metal DOORS (sliding) 8.5.4 (b) (i) Both the door frame supporting the sliding door and any frame surrounding glazing shall be made of metal. ------------------------------ BAL 40 specifications do not permit the use of thermally broken aluminium. Most aluminium window manufactures should be able to provide double glazed aluminium windows that comply with BAL 40 requirements and still offer significant improvements in energy efficiency. Buy beware, request something in writing from the manufacturer stating that their product meets AS3959 requirements. You don't want to end up having to foot the bill to reglazing or replace entire windows. External hardware needs to be metal, hardware supporting the operation of the window or door needs to be metal (ie rollers), there are minimum glass thicknesses, screens may need to be fitted for glazing within 400mm of the ground or other structures... there are a whole raft of requirements! Hope this helps. Re: uPVC and bush fire rating 8Apr 15, 2010 9:14 am Thanks Y&B, I thought that may be the case (re the thermally broken aluminium). What does "screens may need to be fitted for glazing within 400mm of the ground or other structures" mean? I thought only the opening portion of the window needed a screen? Or do you mean fire shutters? Building on an acre in Macedon ......one day. Re: uPVC and bush fire rating 9Apr 16, 2010 2:39 pm mummagoose Thanks Y&B, I thought that may be the case (re the thermally broken aluminium). What does "screens may need to be fitted for glazing within 400mm of the ground or other structures" mean? I thought only the opening portion of the window needed a screen? Or do you mean fire shutters? Shutters are instead of screens at BAL-40 Quote: NOTE: BAL—40 is primarily concerned with protection from ember attack, increased likelihood of flame contact and radiant heat greater than 29 kW/m2 and up to and including 40 kW/m2. 8.5.2 Windows Window assemblies shall comply with one of the following:
Clause 8.5.1. or (b) They shall comply with the following:
(ii) Glazing shall be toughened glass, minimum 5 mm. (iii) Both the openable and the fixed portions of the window shall be screened with a mesh with a maximum aperture of 2 mm, made of corrosion-resistant steel or bronze. Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: uPVC and bush fire rating 10Apr 16, 2010 6:46 pm Apart from metal, all things will burn if subjected to a smouldering ember for long enough. However, the main vulnerability of windows is the glass. Direct radiant heat will shatter unprotected glazing. 12.5 Whr/m2 is the limit. To reach this level a good rule of thumb is the minimum safe distance is 2.5x flame height. If you flame is 10m high, the window will shatter if it is within 25m from it. Metal mesh reduces the heat load by about 25%. Toughened glass has more resistance. Only metal shutters can resist very high direct radiant loads where vegetation is close to the house. http://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/file_system/a ... CB8E0F.pdf Part of your bushfire plan is to clear nearby vegetation and develop a method of defending against the ember attack. A flying ember can potentially break through glass but that is not a common event. Re: uPVC and bush fire rating 11Apr 16, 2010 6:53 pm dymonite69 Apart from metal, all things will burn if subjected to a smouldering ember for long enough. However, the main vulnerability of windows is the glass. Direct radiant heat will shatter unprotected glazing. 12.5 Whr/m2 is the limit. To reach this level a good rule of thumb is the minimum safe distance is 2.5x flame height. If you flame is 10m high, the window will shatter if it is within 25m from it. Metal mesh reduces the heat load by about 25%. Toughened glass has more resistance. Only metal shutters can resist very high direct radiant loads where vegetation is close to the house. http://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/file_system/a ... CB8E0F.pdf Part of your bushfire plan is to clear nearby vegetation and develop a method of defending against the ember attack. A flying ember can potentially break through glass but that is not a common event. My plan is not to live in BAL 40 or anything near. Though they say the windows will endure 40 kW/m2, what if it's 50 - or 60 But there are windows tested to level FZ... Miglas & I think Trend. It's $10k per test and takes a number of tests to pass so EcoClassic may be waiting some time. But I am sure we can pass Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: uPVC and bush fire rating 12Apr 16, 2010 8:41 pm ed @ EcoClassic My plan is not to live in BAL 40 or anything near. Bushfire risk is predominantly related to the amount of dense vegetation next to your property. In many cases this makes a house undefendable. Unless you are in a windowless bomb shelter with its own ventilation system some places are deathtraps waiting to happen. 3 4163 10 years ago was a different software than we use now. it has had a lot of changes over the past years. Improvments to the software and changes to how Nathers models need… 8 1452 We are tossing up between a Jarrahdale radiant wood fire (the Pioneer) and a convection wood fire (Innovator or Countryman) but cannot decide on which type of wood fire is… 0 5250 |