Browse Forums Windows & Doors 1 Jun 12, 2009 4:08 pm Hi guys,
This is for those living in Victoria. You already know how crazy weather is here, especially during winter. Why do real estate agents and designers love big windows and doors pretty much (due to maybe to have an illusion of having huge house) when in fact, when you already live in the house everyday, it's quite expensive to have comfortable living... It's very cold and you have these huge windows and doors, although they have curtains and all, it costs a lot of money turning on the heater for hours. And then during summer, it's so hot, you need to turn the evaporative cooling for several hours too. But it's worst during winter, it's bloody cold... But it is as if it's being imposed to us that it's good to have huge windows and doors, it's great (for resale purposes), they would always say it's good for resale purposes. I don't get it, how about the comfort? I'm still renting at the moment, in my place, I only have one sliding door and two windows and it's really cold already. What more, if I already have house, it's going to be really cold and I will waste a lot of money paying electricity or gas bills. For those having huge bi-fold or open alfresco or having huge windows building at the moment, what are your thoughts. Do you you are going to be comfortable having those during this winter? Re: Huge Doors and Windows 2Jun 12, 2009 4:15 pm That's what double glazing is for and it's why there is a big push for energy efficiency in homes.... Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Huge Doors and Windows 3Jun 12, 2009 4:23 pm Thanks Ed. Double glazing is not a "standard" for sure, it's an extra cost and will it really radically prevent the cold from entering the house. It will still be cold I suppose. Energy efficiency??? Like having gas heater instead, having insulation? Is that what you mean? ed @ EcoClassic That's what double glazing is for and it's why there is a big push for energy efficiency in homes....Ed Re: Huge Doors and Windows 4Jun 12, 2009 4:36 pm bothered Thanks Ed. Double glazing is not a "standard" for sure, it's an extra cost and will it really radically prevent the cold from entering the house. It will still be cold I suppose. Energy efficiency??? Like having gas heater instead, having insulation? Is that what you mean? ed @ EcoClassic That's what double glazing is for and it's why there is a big push for energy efficiency in homes....Ed It's all about insulation (especially double glazing) and consumer attitude... I have just been in discussion with a major builder and they will get more sales from having as standard a Caesarstone benchtop rather than double glazing (it's similar cost...). Even though double glazing will save maybe 350 kWh per week in this weather (Vic). I guess if your knees are knocking and teeth chattering you might choose double glazing Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Huge Doors and Windows 5Jun 12, 2009 4:45 pm I agree Ed. It's all about consumers' attitude. Funny thing is, real estate agents and designers really dictate that you have to have large bi-fold doors, huge windows for aesthetic purposes and most importantly for resale purposes. But wait until you're living already at that house, especially in Victoria. And wouldn't know with this climate change thingy, the house maybe "in" today, how about 10 years from now. Re: Huge Doors and Windows 6Jun 12, 2009 4:54 pm bothered I agree Ed. It's all about consumers' attitude. Funny thing is, real estate agents and designers really dictate that you have to have large bi-fold doors, huge windows for aesthetic purposes and most importantly for resale purposes. But wait until you're living already at that house, especially in Victoria. And wouldn't know with this climate change thingy, the house maybe "in" today, how about 10 years from now. As the rules tighten - and they inevitable will, windows will have to be double glazed (2-3 yrs I think), and rules will tighten even more and then windows and doors will have to be made smaller. Eventually even older houses will even need to pass energy standards - maybe in say 10 years. They already do that in the USA... and in Canberra.... In the USA they have to have an energy audit of heating bills to sell a home, so no *** (not that any builder would ******** ) Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Huge Doors and Windows 7Jun 12, 2009 4:55 pm I still think the steps we in Australia have taken to build efficiently are minimal, there is so much waste of heating/cooling energy and it's really sad. We have leaky aluminium frame stackers (double glazed), cool air vents in the ceiling (yes, they are closed, but still...), to name just a couple that are giving me grief in winter. Re: Huge Doors and Windows 9Jun 12, 2009 5:20 pm ed @ EcoClassic I have just been in discussion with a major builder and they will get more sales from having as standard a Caesarstone benchtop rather than double glazing (it's similar cost...). Even though double glazing will save maybe 350 kWh per week in this weather (Vic). I can believe that. I find it interesting that there hasn't been mention of orientation yet. Re: Huge Doors and Windows 10Jun 12, 2009 5:36 pm ed @ EcoClassic I have just been in discussion with a major builder and they will get more sales from having as standard a Caesarstone benchtop rather than double glazing (it's similar cost...). Even though double glazing will save maybe 350 kWh per week in this weather (Vic). The thing is though Ed, the cost is nowhere near similar for the consumer. As we heard from nightshade(??)... 37k for double glazing with M. It's just out of control. We were going to have double glazing with M... the cost was ridiculous. We were going to have it with Boutique.... cost was much better but still heading towards 15k with the sliding doors. Now with our PD build, we didn't even bother with it. From everything I've read and anecdotal evidence from people such as Mek, I couldn't justify a massive cost for double glazing with aluminium framing and the problems that come with that. Other framing is either not available with most builders or at such a cost that in order to get it, we would have been looking at building a house so much smaller that it would have been unworkable for us. So what's the point?? We've decided to go with single glazing.... drain resources and do the best we can with window furnishings until such a time that double glazing with quality hardware is available for a reasonable cost. Then we'll look at replacement. I'm not having a go at anyone.... but the reality is that the price is such for double glazing in Australia that it is very, very difficult to justify. When it is cheaper for an individual to import quality double glazing from Poland (as Chris did) than to buy the local product there are very, very real problems with the glazing industry in this country. And that is the real shame. I leave you to fend for yourself, figure things out yourself. Terrence Malick Re: Huge Doors and Windows 11Jun 12, 2009 6:36 pm joles ed @ EcoClassic I have just been in discussion with a major builder and they will get more sales from having as standard a Caesarstone benchtop rather than double glazing (it's similar cost...). Even though double glazing will save maybe 350 kWh per week in this weather (Vic). The thing is though Ed, the cost is nowhere near similar for the consumer. As we heard from nightshade(??)... 37k for double glazing with M. It's just out of control. We were going to have double glazing with M... the cost was ridiculous. We were going to have it with Boutique.... cost was much better but still heading towards 15k with the sliding doors. Now with our PD build, we didn't even bother with it. From everything I've read and anecdotal evidence from people such as Mek, I couldn't justify a massive cost for double glazing with aluminium framing and the problems that come with that. Other framing is either not available with most builders or at such a cost that in order to get it, we would have been looking at building a house so much smaller that it would have been unworkable for us. So what's the point?? We've decided to go with single glazing.... drain resources and do the best we can with window furnishings until such a time that double glazing with quality hardware is available for a reasonable cost. Then we'll look at replacement. I'm not having a go at anyone.... but the reality is that the price is such for double glazing in Australia that it is very, very difficult to justify. When it is cheaper for an individual to import quality double glazing from Poland (as Chris did) than to buy the local product there are very, very real problems with the glazing industry in this country. And that is the real shame. I cannot explain M or PD.. 37K extra is stupid, $15k extra is stupid... I could rip out the single glazed windows and put in new double glazed ones for around $15k. The price is not just difficult to justify, it's impossible. Yes, there is something wrong... but we supply Burbank and they do their Future range with double glazing included in the price - and this is priced at first home buyer level. Their struggle (and mine ) is to justify about $5k to take their next level of larger homes to double glazed, they say consumers would prefer to spend $5k on two pack kitchens and stone benchtops. Is this true ? Regarding aluminium frames. There are many double glazed aluminium windows which rank on par energy wise with single glazed aluminium windows... but a couple (only a couple!!) actually rank better than many thermally broken aluminium (EcoClassic is one). And we have offered PVC many times to builders, all at silly prices compared to the competition (and better than Chris's Polish windows too... ). It's so hard to get them to adopt new technology, they fear the consumer backlash (???) . We have just persuaded Burbank to have one display in PVC... But we've been talking for 2 years and again it's their first home buyer range... (maybe I will poll PVC v Al this on Homeone ) But we can persuade a few major builders to use our PVC when their clients choose it, we have 2 on the books right now, let's hope it's a good experience for everyone involved... BTW we can double glaze the average M style house for about $13K... their single glazed would be about $10k. Sliding windows would be much cheaper though... But yes, I agree there is something wrong with prices for double glazing... Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Huge Doors and Windows 12Jun 12, 2009 6:40 pm joles ed @ EcoClassic I have just been in discussion with a major builder and they will get more sales from having as standard a Caesarstone benchtop rather than double glazing (it's similar cost...). Even though double glazing will save maybe 350 kWh per week in this weather (Vic). The thing is though Ed, the cost is nowhere near similar for the consumer. As we heard from nightshade(??)... 37k for double glazing with M. It's just out of control. That was my experience as well. I talked to different builders and every time double glazing was very expensive. All our upgrades combined (including Caesarstone) doesn't add up to the cost of double glazing Trying this building gig one more time. Re: Huge Doors and Windows 13Jun 12, 2009 6:42 pm Ed, 5k and I wouldn't blink. That would be a no-brainer for me. The problem is, that's not what the bloody builders charge us. I leave you to fend for yourself, figure things out yourself. Terrence Malick Re: Huge Doors and Windows 14Jun 12, 2009 6:44 pm joles Ed, 5k and I wouldn't blink. That would be a no-brainer for me. The problem is, that's not what the bloody builders charge us. I know I hear you Jo, but that's what Burbank would charge (in the price) if it was a standard inclusion in their top range. Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Huge Doors and Windows 15Jun 12, 2009 6:48 pm bothered Hi mek, Do you have new house or established one? If it's new house, did you go for huge sliding doors and windows? bothered, we built about a year and a half ago, made sure we considered orientation, and did double glazed windows throughout, they are not big windows at all, have a 3-panel stacker doors, regular size. I pushed for uPVC, being from overseas, but couldn't convince DH, and what's worse, when I rang around to get pricing, I was told by several suppliers that we don't really need them in Melbourne. At least I got my hydronic heating though... And couldn't really have big windows even if I wanted to, as I wanted my heating panels under the windows. I read somewhere a while ago that it's cheaper to build a house with big windows rather than small, does anyone know more? Re: Huge Doors and Windows 16Jun 12, 2009 7:03 pm mek I pushed for uPVC, being from overseas, but couldn't convince DH, and what's worse, when I rang around to get pricing, I was told by several suppliers that we don't really need them in Melbourne. Pricing on this in Australia is even worse than aluminium... But was it the PVC suppliers that said you didn't need it... or was it the aluminium suppliers Whe I came to Oz they told me I didn't need heavy clothes or wardrobes - so we got rid of all of them... then moved into ffffreezing Albury in a commission home with no wardrobes.. mek At least I got my hydronic heating though... And couldn't really have big windows even if I wanted to, as I wanted my heating panels under the windows. And I am jealous... never, never, never have ducted heating again... mek I read somewhere a while ago that it's cheaper to build a house with big windows rather than small, does anyone know more? Untrue, and in any case the energy rating would prevent too many windows these days... I think brick is about $100/m2 (bricks, frame, plaster)... single glazed windows are maybe 50% more. Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Huge Doors and Windows 17Jun 12, 2009 9:01 pm ed @ EcoClassic they say consumers would prefer to spend $5k on two pack kitchens and stone benchtops. Is this true ? Ed I actually spent the money on double glazing rather than stone bench in the kitchen.. if the builder has not included the stone bench in their promo, i don't think i would have it. That's said, the builder quote me 5k to double glaze the whole house, if they quote me 15k or more, i don't think i would have done it, cost is the major factor, and 5k can only get aluminium. Blog - http://clageonewhouse.blogspot.com/ Building Thread - viewtopic.php?f=31&t=10886&hilit=milan I am in, with my husband and my beautiful bunny Re: Huge Doors and Windows 19Jun 12, 2009 9:15 pm Sim@nds. I am suprised when they came back with the quote, i thought they gave me a wrong price and so I even asked them to double check Blog - http://clageonewhouse.blogspot.com/ Building Thread - viewtopic.php?f=31&t=10886&hilit=milan I am in, with my husband and my beautiful bunny Re: Huge Doors and Windows 20Jun 13, 2009 7:24 pm What's a good position for the house then so that you can minimize heat (during winter) and cold (if we can avoid it)? Right now, all the plans I see, they always say that it's good to have lots of windows and huge open doors all the way to alfresco. In the display houses, it makes you feel comfortable because of the heating. Man, if I'm going to leave in that house, I will be broke if I will open heating all the time. 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