Browse Forums Windows & Doors 1 Feb 16, 2009 8:39 pm Hi everyone
Hoping that the experts on this forum will be able to give me some advice, or at least a steer in the right direction! Is there an Australian standard for the thickness of glazing beads that go around double glazed windows? Hope I've got the right terminology here - I mean the strip of flashing that holds the glass in the frame... I know the thickness of the glass is regulated by an Australian standard, but can't seem to find anything about whether or not the glazing bead that holds the glass in needs to be of a particular thickness. Many thanks in advance! Re: Standards for beading on double glazed windows? 2Feb 16, 2009 9:37 pm sparrow Hi everyone Hoping that the experts on this forum will be able to give me some advice, or at least a steer in the right direction! Is there an Australian standard for the thickness of glazing beads that go around double glazed windows? Hope I've got the right terminology here - I mean the strip of flashing that holds the glass in the frame... I know the thickness of the glass is regulated by an Australian standard, but can't seem to find anything about whether or not the glazing bead that holds the glass in needs to be of a particular thickness. Many thanks in advance! I am not clear that you mean the glazing bead, it is not "flashing" but a piece of timber or aluminium which forms a flange around the frame after the glass has been inserted. On some windows it prevents the glass from falling out. In short there is no standard. The reason being that every window is type tested physically in a NATA testing laboratory for wind pressure and rainfall (or should be). Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Standards for beading on double glazed windows? 3Feb 17, 2009 5:02 am In the majority of systems (PVCu, timber, aluminium) the glazing bead is on the inside to hold the glass in place.
It must be designed to stand the wind pressure and weathertightness the system is certified for. The thickness varies to match the thickness of the insulated glass unit. Change is what we need! Can we? YES WE CAN!!!!! Re: Standards for beading on double glazed windows? 4Feb 17, 2009 9:05 am ed @ EcoClassic I am not clear that you mean the glazing bead, it is not "flashing" but a piece of timber or aluminium which forms a flange around the frame after the glass has been inserted. On some windows it prevents the glass from falling out. In short there is no standard. The reason being that every window is type tested physically in a NATA testing laboratory for wind pressure and rainfall (or should be). Ed Hi Ed Thanks very much for coming back to me so quickly! I do mean the thin piece of timber that runs around the frame and holds the glass in place. The story is this: we've just had one set of our double glazed windows reinstalled, as there was condensation biulding up between the glass. The guy who did it has installed beading which juts out 10-15mm past the frame, resulting in a weird, boxy shape around the glass, whereas all our windows have beading that is flush with the frame. None of the beading has been mitred at the corners - which adds to the boxiness and uneveness, as the beading does not meet neatly in the corners. When I complained, the owner of the shop said that the reason the beading juts out is because beading must comply with Australian Standards and be of a certain thickness. He says that it's not his fault our windows/frames are such that the beading cannot be adjusted to sit flush within the window frame. I know that the thickness of glass must be compliant, but I thought that beading could be any thickness? Am I in the wrong if I tell him that there is no standard thickness for beading and he should have selected beading that was thin enough to complement the frame within which it was installed? Sorry for the rant - hope this all makes sense! Re: Standards for beading on double glazed windows? 5Feb 17, 2009 9:09 am windowexpert In the majority of systems (PVCu, timber, aluminium) the glazing bead is on the inside to hold the glass in place. It must be designed to stand the wind pressure and weathertightness the system is certified for. The thickness varies to match the thickness of the insulated glass unit. Hi windowexpert - thanks for your repsonse! Do I understand correctly that the beading (not the glass) must be designed to withstand wind pressure and weather? I'm just trying to find out whether or not this guy has done a ** (but compliant) job that we have to live with, or if he's feeding me pork pies because he's too lazy or ******* to come back and do the job properly Re: Standards for beading on double glazed windows? 6Feb 17, 2009 9:53 am Hi sparrow,
the glass and the bead must be designed to stand the wind pressure according to what the system is certified for. How thick are your timber frames? Is it an IV68 system or a traditional timber system? Installing double glazing into traditional systems comes often with difficulties as the design is really for single glazing. Change is what we need! Can we? YES WE CAN!!!!! Re: Standards for beading on double glazed windows? 7Feb 17, 2009 1:24 pm sparrow ed @ EcoClassic I am not clear that you mean the glazing bead, it is not "flashing" but a piece of timber or aluminium which forms a flange around the frame after the glass has been inserted. On some windows it prevents the glass from falling out. In short there is no standard. The reason being that every window is type tested physically in a NATA testing laboratory for wind pressure and rainfall (or should be). Ed Hi Ed The guy who did it has installed beading which juts out 10-15mm past the frame, resulting in a weird, boxy shape around the glass, whereas all our windows have beading that is flush with the frame. None of the beading has been mitred at the corners - which adds to the boxiness and uneveness, as the beading does not meet neatly in the corners. When I complained, the owner of the shop said that the reason the beading juts out is because beading must comply with Australian Standards and be of a certain thickness. He says that it's not his fault our windows/frames are such that the beading cannot be adjusted to sit flush within the window frame. Sorry for the rant - hope this all makes sense! This sounds like nonsense, if the windows were tested with that glazing and that bead, how can a 10mm-15mm overhang add anything to the strength? I can't see it... And not to mitre the beads? Sounds like a slack job... Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Standards for beading on double glazed windows? 8Feb 17, 2009 2:42 pm windowexpert Hi sparrow, the glass and the bead must be designed to stand the wind pressure according to what the system is certified for. How thick are your timber frames? Is it an IV68 system or a traditional timber system? Installing double glazing into traditional systems comes often with difficulties as the design is really for single glazing. Hi again windowexpert I'm not sure how thick the frames are or if it's an IV68 system. The windows all over the house are cedar-framed and double glazed and were installed about 15 years ago. We've never had any problem with any of them, except this particular one (condensation building up) which is why we've had just this one fixed. Sounds like the bead does need to comply with certain window standards (wind pressure and weather), so perhaps the guy is not having me on! Re: Standards for beading on double glazed windows? 9Feb 17, 2009 2:57 pm ed @ EcoClassic This sounds like nonsense, if the windows were tested with that glazing and that bead, how can a 10mm-15mm overhang add anything to the strength? I can't see it... And not to mitre the beads? Sounds like a slack job... Ed Thanks Ed - I really appreciate the advice. At the very least I know that not mitering the beads sounds a bit *******. I'm still a bit confused about the bead issue, though. Does a certain glass/window need a certain bead to be compliant? Do particular panes of glass come with pre-made beads that must be used in conjunction with the installation of that particular window? Or do you mean that the thickness of the bead has nothing to do with it - rather, it's the material (or width, or resilience or whatever) of the bead that matters? So, in my situation, do you think I would be within my rights to ask him to remove all the overhanging bead and replace it with beading that is thinner and which will therefore sit flush with the window frame? From your post, I understand that the overhang really does not add any extra strength to the window. He could have installed beading that jutted out 30cms, or installed beading that is 5mm (and sits flush with the frame) and it wouldn't make an ounce of difference to the effectiveness of the bead... or, in short, as you said earlier: there is no standard thickness for bead! Correct? Again, I am so sorry for the complexity of my post (and the simplicity of my brain cells)... hopefully I've got it right this time! LOL Re: Standards for beading on double glazed windows? 10Feb 17, 2009 3:49 pm sparrow ed @ EcoClassic This sounds like nonsense, if the windows were tested with that glazing and that bead, how can a 10mm-15mm overhang add anything to the strength? I can't see it... And not to mitre the beads? Sounds like a slack job... Ed Thanks Ed - I really appreciate the advice. At the very least I know that not mitering the beads sounds a bit *******. I'm still a bit confused about the bead issue, though. Does a certain glass/window need a certain bead to be compliant? Do particular panes of glass come with pre-made beads that must be used in conjunction with the installation of that particular window? Or do you mean that the thickness of the bead has nothing to do with it - rather, it's the material (or width, or resilience or whatever) of the bead that matters? So, in my situation, do you think I would be within my rights to ask him to remove all the overhanging bead and replace it with beading that is thinner and which will therefore sit flush with the window frame? From your post, I understand that the overhang really does not add any extra strength to the window. He could have installed beading that jutted out 30cms, or installed beading that is 5mm (and sits flush with the frame) and it wouldn't make an ounce of difference to the effectiveness of the bead... or, in short, as you said earlier: there is no standard thickness for bead! Correct? Again, I am so sorry for the complexity of my post (and the simplicity of my brain cells)... hopefully I've got it right this time! LOL Let me understand. You have had the IG unit (glass) replaced in an existing window due to leakage and the beads were replaced at the same time? Or did you have the whole window replaced? Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Standards for beading on double glazed windows? 11Feb 17, 2009 4:48 pm ed @ EcoClassic Let me understand. You have had the IG unit (glass) replaced in an existing window due to leakage and the beads were replaced at the same time? Or did you have the whole window replaced? Ed Yes, just the glass was replaced... so he took the old bead and glass out and replaced just the glass and bead, but not the window frame. He had to replace the bead because when they ripped off the old bead, they just tore it off willy-nilly and most of the old bead got snapped in the process. So we've now got new glass (which seems fine) and the new, jutty-outy/ill-fitting bead going around the glass. I just don't know if I have a leg to stand on with regard to asking him to fix it, as he argues that he can't do anything about the bead because anything thinner would not comply with the Australian Standards governing bead thickness. I also vaguely remember him saying that the bead thickness is directly correlated to the glass thickness as well, but I can't be sure. Ideally, I would like to ask him to take off the new jutty-outy bead and replace it with something thinner that would fit flush within the window frame (so that visually, the frame and bead look pretty much like one piece of wood). To do this, I think the strip of bead would need to be about 5-10mm thick, rather than the 15-20mm beading he has used). Hope this makes sense - sorry about my very technical language LOL Re: Standards for beading on double glazed windows? 12Feb 17, 2009 5:02 pm sparrow ed @ EcoClassic Let me understand. You have had the IG unit (glass) replaced in an existing window due to leakage and the beads were replaced at the same time? Or did you have the whole window replaced? Ed Yes, just the glass was replaced... so he took the old bead and glass out and replaced just the glass and bead, but not the window frame. He had to replace the bead because when they ripped off the old bead, they just tore it off willy-nilly and most of the old bead got snapped in the process. So we've now got new glass (which seems fine) and the new, jutty-outy/ill-fitting bead going around the glass. I just don't know if I have a leg to stand on with regard to asking him to fix it, as he argues that he can't do anything about the bead because anything thinner would not comply with the Australian Standards governing bead thickness. I also vaguely remember him saying that the bead thickness is directly correlated to the glass thickness as well, but I can't be sure. Ideally, I would like to ask him to take off the new jutty-outy bead and replace it with something thinner that would fit flush within the window frame (so that visually, the frame and bead look pretty much like one piece of wood). To do this, I think the strip of bead would need to be about 5-10mm thick, rather than the 15-20mm beading he has used). Hope this makes sense - sorry about my very technical language LOL If this is simply a reglazing job he is just being lazy as there would be no testing that would tell him what size bead to use, and the old window worked fine. I would suggest that the jutty out piece is placed in a part of his anatomy where it can no longer jut... lucky it's not mitred as that would have a sharp edge. Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Standards for beading on double glazed windows? 13Feb 17, 2009 5:12 pm ed @ EcoClassic If this is simply a reglazing job he is just being lazy as there would be no testing that would tell him what size bead to use, and the old window worked fine. I would suggest that the jutty out piece is placed in a part of his anatomy where it can no longer jut... lucky it's not mitred as that would have a sharp edge. Ed Hmmm... I'll have to keep that in mind! Thanks so much Ed - this is great advice. So you reckon that the new glass that he brought with him wouldn't have have some kind of bead thickness requirement that went with it? Sigh - he is going around tomorrow to check it out, so we'll see what happens. Thanks so much for all the advice - I feel much more confident telling him that his Australian-Standard-of-bead-thickness argument doesn't fly now. Re: Standards for beading on double glazed windows? 14Feb 17, 2009 5:28 pm One more thing - I suppose he replaced the glass with the same thickness IGU (?) - he should have done, then he should have replaced the beads with exactly the same material he removed. What size was the glass thatw as replced? HxWxT?
If he says it can't be changed due to window performance ask to see the standard he is referring to... Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Standards for beading on double glazed windows? 15Feb 17, 2009 6:29 pm ed @ EcoClassic One more thing - I suppose he replaced the glass with the same thickness IGU (?) - he should have done, then he should have replaced the beads with exactly the same material he removed. What size was the glass thatw as replced? HxWxT? If he says it can't be changed due to window performance ask to see the standard he is referring to... Ed I don't know the measurements of the glass off the top of my head - I'll have to break out the measuring tape when I get home... on the quote it says "All of the supplied glass is to satify the requirements of the Australian Standard for Glazing AS 1288-2006." I assume he replaced the glass with the same thickness, although the house was built 15 or so years ago so manufacturing standards may have changed since then? I know that our back sliding door now has much heavier glass in it (from an unrelated replacement years ago) because O'Briens said that nobody makes the old, thinner glass anymore. I will definitely ask to see the standard - that's a great tip, Ed - thanks! If he can show me a regulation that backs up his argument, then I'm happy to concede defeat! I don't know them all, the first 2 top of your list are best known. Rylock is a good company, Stegbar is for sale. 4 16227 I’m in a similar position except I’m after sliding 3 stacking doors. I am on a second-story apartment of which the balcony would not adequately fit any bi-fold or… 5 16147 Building Standards; Getting It Right! Don't think they are designed for double brick. WA has a particular way of building and unfortunately that's the way a large amount of sills are finished. 3 7003 |