Double glazed sliding door recomendations? (Melbourne)

gwicks56 · Jun 29, 2023 6:52 pm

Replacing 3 doors, each 2.7m wide by 2.1m high. I think i prefer the look of wider double pane than narrower 3 pane, plus I assume that should seal better. All three doors are in the same room, and only glass in the room, which is biggest and hardest to heat in the house.

I have heard some sliding doors are a waste of money in double glazed, as they leak so much air around seal and temperature through aluminum surround, so looking to something of reasonable quality, without going nuts on price, no German made $10k per door for me thank you. Not looking for $2k dirt cheap special either though.

My wife, bless her, does not seem to like UPVC, as they have a thicker surround than Al, and she thinks plastic looks cheap.

So I guess what I'm after is a place to start looking for decent quality Aluminum double glazed sliding doors, in Melbourne. Thermally broken or not I don't know, hear conflicting info. I am using the WERS site to search, the problem is I have no idea what price brackets I am comparing. So decent price, decent quality recommendations would be a good place to start. For heat retention purchases, what is the max Uw I should be looking at?

Thanks all

alexp79 · Jun 29, 2023 11:47 pm

Have you checked LandVac? They use vacuum glass and can achieve Uw of below 0.5, none of double/triple glazed windows on the market will be able to achieve anything even closely similar. In fact, they will be probably performing better than your walls.

They are also provide extremely good sound proofing to 36 db.

https://www.bmsydney.com.au/landvac-vig/

I first learnt about them at Sydney Build this year and when I asked the pricing, they were referencing prices around $500 per sqm for thermally broken aluminium profiles, which I found very affordable for this kind of performance.

ECOECO · Jul 04, 2023 1:21 pm

gwicks56

Replacing 3 doors, each 2.7m wide by 2.1m high. I think i prefer the look of wider double pane than narrower 3 pane, plus I assume that should seal better. All three doors are in the same room, and only glass in the room, which is biggest and hardest to heat in the house.

I have heard some sliding doors are a waste of money in double glazed, as they leak so much air around seal and temperature through aluminum surround, so looking to something of reasonable quality, without going nuts on price, no German made $10k per door for me thank you. Not looking for $2k dirt cheap special either though.

My wife, bless her, does not seem to like UPVC, as they have a thicker surround than Al, and she thinks plastic looks cheap.

So I guess what I'm after is a place to start looking for decent quality Aluminum double glazed sliding doors, in Melbourne. Thermally broken or not I don't know, hear conflicting info. I am using the WERS site to search, the problem is I have no idea what price brackets I am comparing. So decent price, decent quality recommendations would be a good place to start. For heat retention purchases, what is the max Uw I should be looking at?

Thanks all

Try EcoEco... Check out our showroom, you won't be disappointed.

PaulieAgnolotti · Jul 23, 2023 10:26 pm

I’m in a similar position except I’m after sliding 3 stacking doors. I am on a second-story apartment of which the balcony would not adequately fit any bi-fold or French doors — and frankly the 1 fixed, 2 sliding door will help maximise the openness I’m after.

A few general questions I’m stuck on:

My available space is 2400 height x 3500 cm wide almost precisely. I keep seeing brands with standard sizes of frames that are slightly above 3500+ (eg 3588, 3560). For me that would encroach into the brickwork. What happens in those cases? Do I drop down to the smaller standard size or do they modify the frame/glass (aka ‘custom’)?
What is the best “brief” I can give supply & install companies? What’s missing from my descriptions above & supplied photos?
I want to make sure water does not enter the apartment & adequately spills out over balcony. The current window/door arrangement never had any leakage problems thankfully so I presume it is at correct level and height. Do I need to supply any information to the installer to help them ensure it’s fine? Or when they come to look & inspect, what do I need to watch for to make sure they do it right?
Often when getting quotes I don’t see an adequate description or discussion of control systems (flashing, sealant, caulking). When I get down to a shortlist I want to confirm the installer will do it right. Is there an Australian Standards for installation process or general guidance? eg. 'Sealant to be [laced on outside, with frame pushed into place to bond to brick mold (rather than other way around). Sealant and nail fin on top, side of frame. Leave bottom as egress for water.'
Between reports that building approvals in Victoria are pretty much at standstill and Cordell reports showing price stagflation of metal & timber, I’m expecting that the availability & price have stabilised. I've received notice that 4-6 weeks lead time is the norm once again for example. What’s the general industry vibe?

ECOECO -- I’d appreciate your thoughts on the above & response to the brief below!

PaulieAgnolotti · Jul 24, 2023 7:39 pm

For what it's worth, here's how I'm writing my requests to supply & installers:

Quote for Supply & Install 3-panel Sliding Stacker Door

Product specification

3-panel sliding stacking door (OOX from exterior).
3.5 metres wide x 2.4 metres height
Double-glazed window (4mm or greater preferred, welcome to suggest other options)
Preferred cavity gap of 10 to 12mm with Argon gas (welcome to suggest other options)
Aluminum frame in Monument Matt colour (or equivalent) with matching handle.
Placed into brick veneer wall
Thermal break (if none available, please suggest other options)
Flyscreen (nylon equivalent, seperate stacking sections or welcome to suggest other options)
BAL Low (CBD zoning)

Access

Balcony on 2nd floor, approx 5.5 metres from ground.
Plentiful access available from ground for scaffolding
Narrowest internal access (incl. staircase) is 2.031 metres high x 0.816 metres wide (entrance door)

When responding, please provide the following:

Required detail

Price incl. line items for product, installation & misc (eg. disposal of existing, scaffolding)
Estimated lead time
Product names, IDs
Glazing type, thickness & lamination
Cavity gap thickness & gas type
Panel height & width
Frame type, colour and if thermally-broken
Track type (friction, wheel/ball bearings)
Insect screen (type, material, sectioned)
Base performance metrics (uW, SHGCw)
(Optional) Other performance metrics (Light VLTw, Sound Rw, Wind Pa, Water Pa, Air L/s.m²)

Additionally, please discuss your approach to

Reveal (135mm) & architraves
Flashing, sealant, caulking
Removal & disposal of existing
Accreditation, prior work & insurance
Great-to-know information about specified product & your installation process

I prefer that people give detailed information & explain their process so that we are clear on expectations & have done due diligence.

ECOECO · Aug 01, 2023 4:04 pm

"I’m in a similar position except I’m after sliding 3 stacking doors. I am on a second-story apartment of which the balcony would not adequately fit any bi-fold or French doors — and frankly the 1 fixed, 2 sliding door will help maximise the openness I’m after. "

A few general questions I’m stuck on: My available space is 2400 height x 3500 cm wide almost precisely. I keep seeing brands with standard sizes of frames that are slightly above 3500+ (eg 3588, 3560). For me that would encroach into the brickwork. What happens in those cases? Do I drop down to the smaller standard size or do they modify the frame/glass (aka ‘custom’)?	RESPONSE We make and supply non-standard sizes at no extra cost.
What is the best “brief” I can give supply & install companies? What’s missing from my descriptions above & supplied photos?	The supplied photos are missing. I would suggest pics of the façade wall with the balcony. Is there a prepared opening already or is there a product to remove? Is there a lintel present? How good is the access to the balcony, remembering the frame dimensions, but especially the panels.
I want to make sure water does not enter the apartment & adequately spills out over balcony. The current window/door arrangement never had any leakage problems thankfully so I presume it is at correct level and height. Do I need to supply any information to the installer to help them ensure it’s fine? Or when they come to look & inspect, what do I need to watch for to make sure they do it right?	I assume the sill will sit on top of the finished floor to leave the weep holes clear. If he is a qualified installer, you won’t need to get involved. The stacker door is likely to be deeper than your existing products. How it is finished will be a choice you need to make. With luck the depth of your wall will allow the stacker door to sit within the wall, but it may not be sufficient to allow and architrave, so be prepared to have the plaster slotted into the door jamb, without architrave.
Often when getting quotes I don’t see an adequate description or discussion of control systems (flashing, sealant, caulking). When I get down to a shortlist I want to confirm the installer will do it right. Is there an Australian Standards for installation process or general guidance? eg. 'Sealant to be [laced on outside, with frame pushed into place to bond to brick mold (rather than other way around). Sealant and nail fin on top, side of frame. Leave bottom as egress for water.'	We silicone seal the door into the opening, and you don’t need to worry about our control, we know what we are doing. Our products have an inline reveal and we have no nailing fin. The critical thing is to ensure the weep holes in the sill are not covered so that the sill can drain onto the balcony. (I assume the fall on the balcony is adequate).
Between reports that building approvals in Victoria are pretty much at standstill and Cordell reports showing price stagflation of metal & timber, I’m expecting that the availability & price have stabilised. I've received notice that 4-6 weeks lead time is the norm once again for example. What’s the general industry vibe?	Business is steadily growing for us, we have a regular lead time, and our product has a high acceptance in the market. We don’t gouge prices which always reflect our costs. Our service team is on the ball if needed. We are generally good at what we do.
Product specification
3-panel sliding stacking door (OOX from exterior).	Yes
3.5 metres wide x 2.4 metres height	Yes assume we measure
Double-glazed window (4mm or greater preferred, welcome to suggest other options)	5/12/5
Preferred cavity gap of 10 to 12mm with Argon gas (welcome to suggest other options)	Argon if you want but it’s not really necessary.
Aluminum frame in Monument Matt colour (or equivalent) with matching handle.	Yes Subject to sourcing matching handle to suit our standard
Placed into brick veneer wall	Yes
Thermal break (if none available, please suggest other options)	I don’t provide a thermal break because our design cannot be improved by a thermal break. Besides the polyamide material used for the break has a softening temperature of 50 deg. C and a melting temperature of 255 deg. C it weakens the structural integrity.
Flyscreen (nylon equivalent, seperate stacking sections or welcome to suggest other options)	Fibreglass is our standard
BAL Low (CBD zoning)	Yes
Access
Balcony on 2nd floor, approx 5.5 metres from ground.	May require a knuckle boom or similar unless the internal access is sufficient.
Plentiful access available from ground for scaffolding	Doubt if scaffolding will be required.
Narrowest internal access (incl. staircase) is 2.031 metres high x 0.816 metres wide (entrance door)	Need to check that a door panel will fit.
When responding, please provide the following: Required detail
Price incl. line items for product, installation & misc (eg. disposal of existing, scaffolding)	TBA
Estimated lead time
Product names, IDs	EcoTech Stacker Door
Glazing type, thickness & lamination	You can have whatever you want, our standard is 4mm or 5mm and an airgap.
Cavity gap thickness & gas type	12mm Air (Argon at extra cost, but argon will diffuse through the seals)
Panel height & width	TBA
Frame type, colour and if thermally-broken	Not broken
Track type (friction, wheel/ball bearings)	High end rollers, welcome to view.
Insect screen (type, material, sectioned)	TBA
Base performance metrics (uW, SHGCw)	TBA
(Optional) Other performance metrics (Light VLTw, Sound Rw, Wind Pa, Water Pa, Air L/s.m²)	Rw 35
Additionally, please discuss your approach to
Reveal (135mm) & architraves	As previously discussed
Flashing, sealant, caulking	1st Class
Removal & disposal of existing	Yes
Accreditation, prior work & insurance	Yes
Great-to-know information about specified product & your installation process	Ask away.