Glad I'm not alone
For interest's sake... windowexpert's post makes it sounds like those products do not have an air space (thus no 'thermal envelope')... they actually do. They don't go on the glass directly.
Browse Forums Windows & Doors Re: Another Double Glazing question - existing house 21Oct 11, 2008 3:57 pm Glad I'm not alone
For interest's sake... windowexpert's post makes it sounds like those products do not have an air space (thus no 'thermal envelope')... they actually do. They don't go on the glass directly. Re: Another Double Glazing question - existing house 22Oct 11, 2008 4:15 pm Insulated glass units are sealed all the way around for a good reason,
I am dealing with double and triple glazing for more than 20 years now and if you know it all, please yourself. If you don't like straight talk and if you don't like my sense of humour its fine with me too And if you prefer the advise from people who have little or no experience with insulation it is fine with me too dream on Re: Another Double Glazing question - existing house 23Oct 11, 2008 5:49 pm windowexpert If you don't like straight talk and if you don't like my sense of humour its fine with me too I am a fan of straight talk. Just not a fan of egotistical aggressive people like yourself. Call it humour if you like, but you are not funny in the slightest. Re: Another Double Glazing question - existing house 24Oct 11, 2008 6:28 pm If you think so thats fine with me too Re: Another Double Glazing question - existing house 25Oct 11, 2008 9:25 pm I am not an expert on this or any other building topic but I do not like being talked down to and I am such a fan of this forum becuase everyone can have different opinions and different priorities and different budgets and all be treated with respect.
Window expert, on this and other recent threads , I dont believe you have been doing that. Whether you have been doing this for 20 years or not, everyone does not have to agree with you on everything. I've been in my line of work for around 20 years too but I wouldn't treat clients like this Re: Another Double Glazing question - existing house 26Oct 11, 2008 10:54 pm windowexpert,
We need your expertise. You're always welcome here and look forward to your comments. Cheers, Casa Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Another Double Glazing question - existing house 27Oct 12, 2008 6:11 am Hi,
my advice is intended for those who seriously want to adopt a whole new concept of comfortable and energy efficient building rather than patchwork which is costly, risky and with mixed results. Yes, talking change can sound radical or aggressive to some but change is a necessarry part of life. And in many cases change is only effective if you go all the way rather than patching. I don't expect anyone to agree on my points but a bit of controversy and discussion doesn't do any harm and it is a way do make people thinking. Have a nice day Re: Another Double Glazing question - existing house 28Oct 12, 2008 8:59 am To echo windowexperts comments, Comfortglass is not double glazing, and an add on film will give you headaches going forward. If you want to do it right, get yourself double glazed with a 12 mm air gap.
What you are after is a certain level of performance. Go for a Uw value no greater than 4.0 (and this is pretty average). Better still keep under 3.5. (U is the inverse of R, so the smaller U the better it is, just as the bigger R is the better it is. While R values are typically 1 to 3, windows are nowhere near as good at insulating as house insulation. The R values for a window are somewhere between 0.1 to 0.5 (U values of 5 to 2). The units of U are W/m2K. This means that for every "U" you loose one W per square metre per degree K (which is the same as degree C). If you're in the US, the units are different and U values are about one-seventh the values used in the rest of the world. So if you have a U value of 4 and it's 10 degrees C cooler outside and you have a 4 square metre windows, you would loose 160 W. So you would need to run a 160 W heater, just to maintain the inside temperature for the heat lost through that one window! Uw, as opposed U, means the specified value applies to the whole window (hence the w), which is the only thing that matters ) Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Another Double Glazing question - existing house 29Oct 15, 2008 10:30 am windowexpert For the ultimate thermal performance triple glazing is the way to go 4mm / 12mm Argon/ 4mm Low E/ 12mm Argon 4mm Low E Together with a 5 or 6 chamber PVCu frame you get an R-value of about 1.1-1.2 Probably costing you a fortune in Australia We are not all ultra rich and require the ultimate of everything. Most people dont have the money to spend on items that for an Australian climate are not needed. No ifs No buts. Triple glazing in parts of Russia, or Alaska but in bloody Melbourne or Sydney- please give me a break You can get an aluminium double glazed houselot (Uw 3 )for around the price you would pay for two or three of these windows. A 68% improvement over the baseline model without the cost. Great comfort and reduced energy bills without adding $30k to your mortgage. Who cares about the hardware - as long as the chain winder is functional i am happy Installing aluminium double glazed windows in most parts of Australis is not a patch work approach and has no risk. there is a greater risk with using uPVC and its impact with the level of UV exposure in Australia Provide a balanced view of the options people have not an elitist view And dont use the well they use them in other countries arguement. Never argue with an idiot!!!! They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. Re: Another Double Glazing question - existing house 30Oct 15, 2008 10:50 am It was not about what glazing you use or what is needed or not, it was simply saying thats the higest performance glazing is triple glazing
Quote: Never argue with an idiot!!!! They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience This tells exactly about your elitist arrogant attitude Quack, Quack, Quack all day long Re: Another Double Glazing question - existing house 31Oct 15, 2008 10:50 am Yes thank you all for your replys.
Lot's of info here, from both the "straight talkers" or the "sugar coaters". But I'm sure you know the general forum method - draw out the info if you can and make sure you've got your bull$hit filter on. You can't just take one person's word as fact. Bringing it back to the topic, yes agreed, I'm in Melbourne not Russia. And the idea of double glazing did (and still does) seem way extravagant. But on top of the perhaps controversial benefits of a Melbourne resident, when you're also look at the cost of re-coloring the existing aluminium by painting and perhaps solving the heat imbalance problem, this may be the solution. Painting the current frame doesn't thrill me - they are sliding windows, how long will it be before my paint jobs scrapes and chips off? How ******* will it look eh? "Installing aluminium double glazed windows in most parts of Australis is not a patch work approach and has no risk." Can I ask DuckyQuackQuack What risk could there be in other parts of the world using aluminium frame? Is it condensation? What did you mean bny this statement? Thanks HC Re: Another Double Glazing question - existing house 32Oct 15, 2008 4:11 pm Because of the extreme climate i would us uPVC and maybe triple glazed in the most extreme conditions that occur in the world.
Aust has a mild climate in comparison (except maybe Mt Buller and the like) In the coldest climates it is the condensation that is the main issue - as would probably be an issue in Mt Buller To often ppl use the ultimate or extreme solution which is not a practical cost effective solution for those of use who find the current costs to build a home prohibitive. I mean no disrespect to windowexpert but he needs to provide a balance view of things not the "snoobish" view he currently is using I am involved in the window industry and can provide a number of solutions to satisfy all groups but i will not promote one over the other I am happy to answer any personal messages sent also Never argue with an idiot!!!! They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. Re: Another Double Glazing question - existing house 33Oct 15, 2008 5:05 pm Hi Duck,
I use a software that tells me exactly the configuration of a given window That way I make sure that the inside surface temperature of the frame and glass is never less than 13*C The surface temperature of a single glazed aluminium window is always closed to the outside temperature and therefore not sufficiant for any climate where the temperature drops below 13* C. If I have a situation inside 20* C and outside 0*C, the surface of an aluminium window is somewhere around 2*C, a 5 chamber PVCu window frame is about 18*C, the double glazing with lowE about 13 or 14*C, the triple glazing with lowE about 18*C This is not an extreme scenario and it can be very well in large parts of Southern Australia or anythere in New Zealand. You want to achive as little temperature difference between the inside air temperature and the surface temperature of any given part of the exterior wall as possible. It is nothing elite, nothing snobbish, it is only physics, figures and calculations it is not my view it is the state of window technology in 2008 Progress doesn't stop on windows! Re: Another Double Glazing question - existing house 34Oct 17, 2008 9:26 pm HC said
Quote: Wall insulation - whatever standard they were pumping out in the 80's - probably bare minimum, you know that silver stuff. Which equates to about almost 0. IMO - Upgraded windows - double or (triple) glazed if you want to spend the extra money, but I think you would probably be better off doing double glazing and installing pumped in rockwool into the walls which will offer you better all round thermal improvment than just triple glazed windows would. Steve Re: Another Double Glazing question - existing house 35Oct 18, 2008 4:47 am Hi Steve,
don't nail me on triple glazing. It is just for information. Of course you achive more overall with improved wall insulation. Triple glazing is a luxury option, double glazing good practice, single glazing is no insulation . The problem is that double glazed units are artificially overpriced (about twice compared to Europe) but with increasing volumes and more competition it should come down. Hopefully Re: Another Double Glazing question - existing house 36Oct 18, 2008 8:09 am Hey! Thanks Yak_Chat...
Yeah, blow-in insulation. I thought about this a lot and dismissed it as a seriously large labour intensive job for an existing house. If you go in through the top and blow in the insulation down, it won't fall below the nogging (if that's what it's called) about half way down. So I pictured two holes (one below the nogging and one above) through the plaster in my lounge spaced as wide as the structural uprights and a lot of plaster work after it was done! Any thoughts on doing this? HC Re: Another Double Glazing question - existing house 37Oct 18, 2008 8:55 am HC - what is you house construction - or is that mentioned in your first post If it's brick veneer then there is about a 50mm gap between the noggins and the bricks and you can get a hose all the way to the bottom plate, and from there fill it to the top. and yes - access is via the top of the wall. Under windows can be done via holes either internal or via the bricks.
Cost is cheaper than having someone remove the plaster and install rockwool batts, but more expensive than doing that yourself. But you need to be careful in the product you use, there is a special one that does not transmit water. WE. Quote: don't nail me on triple glazing. It is just for information. Hey I'm 100% for triple glazed, I lived in a house that was fully triple glazed and 12 inch fully insulated walls in 1985. (In Sweden) outside temp 6 at night, daytime temp 15 to 18 - inside temp with no heating used at all - 22 all the time - So I'm convinced. But the rest of the house needs to be as efficient too. Re: Another Double Glazing question - existing house 38Oct 18, 2008 10:10 am HC, just remember that the chain is only as strong as its weakest link. Boosting wall insulation and leaving poor quality windows in is to some extent a waste of money, the improvement will be small. It's even more true when upgrading the windows and leaving the walls undone - the windows cost more. As for the cavity walls, I've seen something on the net about an expanding foam that's pumped into the brick veneer.
Chris My father rode a camel, I drive a car, my son flies in a jetliner, his son will ride a camel.Saudi saying Re: Another Double Glazing question - existing house 39Oct 19, 2008 9:02 pm Quote: As for the cavity walls, I've seen something on the net about an expanding foam that's pumped into the brick veneer. Toxic urethane expanded in the walls - plus anyone ever thought about trying to run a new cable in the future. At least pumped in rockwool it can be moved a bit with a rod and a stick of conduit but that'sd be nigh near impossible to do with expanded foam. steve This is one of the reasons I decided to go overseas for my double glazed windows. As the builder indicated, he's worked on many upmarket builds, these were the most well… 13 19036 For your reference Performance Labels: Window assemblies in housing, except timber windows, must be labelled so the label can be seen when it is in situ. For timber… 6 7635 |