Browse Forums Windows & Doors 1 Nov 29, 2020 9:34 pm Hi everyone, We are building a double story house in Sydney and have 3 stacker doors (3.6m-3.2m-2.4m wide) in our family, kitchen and dining area (total area:64m2). We are a bit concerned about outside noise being heard and thermal performance of the stacker doors, so we are thinking about upgrading to double glazing (4/10/4mm with argon gas). The cost is $2000 (excluding one custom awning window that can not be double glazed). We have also heard about the benefits of laminated glass, but we are not sure which one is better. Do you recommend going with double glazing or laminated glass? are these options effective for reducing noise coming from stacker doors (due to the gap between the panels)? Thanks. Re: Double glazed or laminate windows? 2Nov 30, 2020 11:40 am Ral21 Hi everyone, We are building a double story house in Sydney and have 3 stacker doors (3.6m-3.2m-2.4m wide) in our family, kitchen and dining area (total area:64m2). We are a bit concerned about outside noise being heard and thermal performance of the stacker doors, so we are thinking about upgrading to double glazing (4/10/4mm with argon gas). The cost is $2000 (excluding one custom awning window that can not be double glazed). We have also heard about the benefits of laminated glass, but we are not sure which one is better. Do you recommend going with double glazing or laminated glass? are these options effective for reducing noise coming from stacker doors (due to the gap between the panels)? Thanks. Hi Ral21 95% of the noise stopping power of a window is the total glass thickness... following that there are tweaks that make a tweaking difference, like different glass thicknesses in the double glazing - say 4/10/5. This would assist in covering a wider octave range. Laminated glass makes a small tweaking difference between 1dB and 2dB, bearing in mind that the human ear can detect only 10dB shift. Argon is similarly a small tweaking difference. Our standard awning window with 4/12/4 is certified to Rw35 and with 8.76(lam)/9/5 is Rw39. For your needs, I would look at 4/9/5... Thanks Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Double glazed or laminate windows? 3Nov 30, 2020 12:45 pm Hey, Ed does 10 db increase makes sound to be perceived as twice as loud? So you are saying that human ear won't be able to distinguish sound shift until it is at least twice louder? Where is it coming from? Re: Double glazed or laminate windows? 5Dec 01, 2020 12:51 pm alexp79 Hey, Ed does 10 db increase makes sound to be perceived as twice as loud? So you are saying that human ear won't be able to distinguish sound shift until it is at least twice louder? Where is it coming from? Hi Alex, Because our perception of sound is subjective we can hear low volume sounds and high volume sounds and they can appear similar because our hearing compensates. My analogy would be light, where our eyes adjust to suit the light levels, so we see on a dull day almost as well as we can see in the sunlight in the middle of the day, and although we think the light levels are similar, we are often fooled. e.g. when we try to take the photograph in low light the photo can be blurred and dark because the actual light levels are so far apart and the midday may be 100 to 500 times or even 3,000 times brighter than 5pm. "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Double glazed or laminate windows? 6Dec 01, 2020 1:00 pm ECOECO alexp79 Hey, Ed does 10 db increase makes sound to be perceived as twice as loud? So you are saying that human ear won't be able to distinguish sound shift until it is at least twice louder? Where is it coming from? Hi Alex, Because our perception of sound is subjective we can hear low volume sounds and high volume sounds and they can appear similar because our hearing compensates. My analogy would be light, where our eyes adjust to suit the light levels, so we see on a dull day almost as well as we can see in the sunlight in the middle of the day, and although we think the light levels are similar, we are often fooled. e.g. when we try to take the photograph in low light the photo can be blurred and dark because the actual light levels are so far apart and the midday may be 100 to 500 times or even 3,000 times brighter than 5pm. Well, see the article below. Physics says that 3 db increase is doubling acoustical energy, but due to the effect you mentioned, actual perceived levels are around 10 db when average listener hears double the sound, and at 5 db you would definitely hear noticeable/significant change. I think you are mixing up perceived (10 db) vs actual (3 db) when it gets to the actual values. https://www.abdengineering.com/blog/per ... s-reality/ Re: Double glazed or laminate windows? 7Dec 01, 2020 2:06 pm alexp79 ECOECO alexp79 Hey, Ed does 10 db increase makes sound to be perceived as twice as loud? So you are saying that human ear won't be able to distinguish sound shift until it is at least twice louder? Where is it coming from? Hi Alex, Because our perception of sound is subjective we can hear low volume sounds and high volume sounds and they can appear similar because our hearing compensates. My analogy would be light, where our eyes adjust to suit the light levels, so we see on a dull day almost as well as we can see in the sunlight in the middle of the day, and although we think the light levels are similar, we are often fooled. e.g. when we try to take the photograph in low light the photo can be blurred and dark because the actual light levels are so far apart and the midday may be 100 to 500 times or even 3,000 times brighter than 5pm. Well, see the article below. Physics says that 3 db increase is doubling acoustical energy, but due to the effect you mentioned, actual perceived levels are around 10 db when average listener hears double the sound, and at 5 db you would definitely hear noticeable/significant change. I think you are mixing up perceived (10 db) vs actual (3 db) when it gets to the actual values. https://www.abdengineering.com/blog/per ... s-reality/ Hi Yes, I am aware of the logarithmic scale for decibels, I can only say what I know... I am sure perceptions differ for all sort of reasons. Maybe you're right. Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Double glazed or laminate windows? 9Feb 17, 2021 11:23 am I used to supply PVC windows and they too have their disadvantages as well which I have mentioned before. "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 I don't know them all, the first 2 top of your list are best known. Rylock is a good company, Stegbar is for sale. 4 16224 I’m in a similar position except I’m after sliding 3 stacking doors. I am on a second-story apartment of which the balcony would not adequately fit any bi-fold or… 5 16145 DIY, Home Maintenance & Repair At a bit of a loss on this one - we're thinking the original owners never removed the protective laminate covers from their kitchen cabinets after installation and in the… 0 6330 |