Browse Forums Paving & Concreting Re: Concrete Perimeter around home 22Jul 25, 2016 12:27 am 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using siphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost, siphonic, eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Concrete Perimeter around home 24Jul 25, 2016 8:58 am I had our builder rip up the entire perimeter of concreting and do it again because it wasn't compliant. Just stick to your guns about compliance, regulation and possible outcomes if the don't rectify. Alert them to the fact that if you escalate to a legal matter, they have no standing as the work clearly doesn't meet the code. As to the csiro document. It is outdated and is a guide only. Builders like to rely on it, but the fact is that the document was published when there was no requirement in the ncc regarding minimum slope. The NCC trumps ANY guide or any other document that is at odds with it. I'd warned my builders about this fact, and they still give it to people. The only exception as stated earlier is when you live in a low rainfall area, which is also covered in the ncc. The main aspect of my argument was that if the ground around the perimeter heaves the concrete skirt greater than 20mm, the path will fall towards the house (I was on highly reactive soil). After several emails and conversations, they ripped it up and did it again. Re: Concrete Perimeter around home 25Jul 25, 2016 11:29 am Liliana Another thought - if the concrete was laid so high it could be because the ground levels around the house were left too high to begin with. Concreters don't usually bring in more dirt! They just don't like to excavate and remove dirt as it costs them money. Those are my thoughts also. Even with the absence of photos, I have no reason not to believe Jennifer's description of the finished concrete and the fact that the ss praised the concreting when it was clearly not compliant in several areas strongly indicates to me that the regulatory requirements for site drainage and slope during construction were also bypassed. I strongly suggest that when the concrete is taken up, a credible and suitably qualified person is there to witness the bare ground height and slope. If you can arrange for the VBA to be there, then great. The builder is required to slope the earth away from the foundations at 1:20 over the first metre and have a minimum height of 150mm between the surface and the dpc during construction. It will be easy to tell whether the bare earth met this mandate during construction. Note that un-compacted fill does not qualify as a finished surface, many site supervisors use un-compacted fill and have even used mulch in one instance I remember to 'achieve' their slope. A word about site supervisors There is no magical list of qualifications needed to work as a ss and many who do are clearly lacking in basic knowledge. This is a very serious industry flaw that the regulatory authorities have failed to address. Regardless, a ss cannot be reasonably expected to know the finer regulatory requirements that cover several trades and many building surveyors have also been found to be lacking in the most basic areas of required regulatory knowledge needed to be proficient at their job. People want big houses at a cheap price and the builders cut their costs wherever possible to meet this and remain a competitive and viable business. Damned if they do, damned if they don't! Additional on site scrutiny would add to the costs and avoiding these is the driving force behind the problems that beset this industry, problems that in the main come back to a lack of regulatory knowledge and scant quality control. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using siphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost, siphonic, eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Concrete Perimeter around home 28Jul 25, 2016 6:37 pm There is a lot of loose fill unfortunately and so the soil slope is not apparent but if you look at the closest roof gutter on the RH side, you will see an unconnected downpipe pop at the corner. This indicates that they had not connected the roof drainage as required by AS2870. It is a critical regulatory requirement to have the roof water drain away from the foundations on highly reactive soil. The next gutter along will also have a pop at the near end. It is reasonable to assume that this also would not be connected. If so, then these two very close pops would have delivered a concentrated flow of water next to the slab that sits on highly reactive soil. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using siphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost, siphonic, eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Concrete Perimeter around home 30Jul 25, 2016 7:07 pm Thanks for your help SaveH2O. We could only take photos of the front most times because our ss said we weren't allowed on site without him for safety reasons, and I remember one time walking on my neighbours section to try and have a look at the side and back but didnt get more than a few metres and i had to turn back because my shoes kept sinking and got heaps of mud stuck to it. Re: Concrete Perimeter around home 31Jul 25, 2016 7:12 pm The soil (un-compacted fill) is nearly up to the DPC in one area. Water seeps through un-compacted fill and follows the ground slope but I would prefer if someone better versed in this disclipine gave a professional opinion but certainly the finished levels are not compliant by a large margin. Just to expand on an earlier post...during construction and once the roof and gutters have gone on, the pops are required (AS2870) to be fitted with temporary downpipes that divert the water away from the slab. You will notice in the above photo that the gutters are connected. Are your gutters similarly connected near the visible pop or are they separate? 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using siphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost, siphonic, eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Concrete Perimeter around home 32Jul 25, 2016 7:50 pm It would be worthwhile finding out who owns the vacant block and asking if they took any photos of the block during the construction of your house. If they did, then those photos may show whether temporary downpipes were fitted. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using siphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost, siphonic, eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Concrete Perimeter around home 33Jul 25, 2016 9:08 pm Good photos. They are not fitted. A serious compliance breach when building on reactive soil and a major cause of slab heave. The gutter is the same as the photo I posted. The nearest pop to the one I spotted is half way along the wall and another one at the far end of the wall. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using siphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost, siphonic, eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Concrete Perimeter around home 34Jul 25, 2016 9:17 pm Oh no. If they are not fitted on this side it would be safe to say they weren't fitted around the other side nor front either? Would this be more of a majoring contributing factor to the slab heave, or the flat concrete perimeter? The home took about 5 months to build and I have had the flat concrete perimeter for about 4 months now. Re: Concrete Perimeter around home 35Jul 25, 2016 10:48 pm There is no apparent slope from what I can see but I would rather a resident expert comment on this. They have also used some un-compacted fill. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using siphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost, siphonic, eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Concrete Perimeter around home 36Jul 25, 2016 10:54 pm Do you think the soil levels are high? I am just googling waffle slabs and I see alot of slabs have their soil levels alot lower than mine. The soil level especially at the front left seems very high. Maybe I should start another discussion subject as this has more to do with builders building compliance now. Re: Concrete Perimeter around home 37Jul 26, 2016 12:07 am The resident experts should find the thread. They have used fill to level the ground and this is sometimes done to fill holes or to make the surface less slippery. There is no telling why they have done it or how thick it is in the photos. Telling photos are taken after it has rained. Re the (3) temporary downpipes not being fitted on one side, it would be reasonable to assume that the others were also not fitted given that they were still not fitted at lock up. Just a cautionary note here to remember that talk of heave at this stage is premature but it is something to be mindful of. Cracks the width that you have described fall into the category of "monitor and record" and that is something that you now need to do. Maybe go around with a video camera and have the tape as an initial recorded reference. Also be aware of any new cracks as well as doors that start sticking. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using siphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost, siphonic, eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Concrete Perimeter around home 38Jul 26, 2016 6:29 am You will not be taken seriously by your concreter or the builder until you lodge a VCAT claim. To do that you will need expert report supporting your claim and expert giving expert witness evidence in VCAT and be prepared to be your own lawyer and run your own case. Be prepared to spend 5-6K on expert report and attendance and you may or may not recover that in your award if you are successful. If you use a lawyer than triple the above figure and then triple it again. I have been helping with similar situations with good success but as always there are no guarantees Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Concrete Perimeter around home 39Jul 26, 2016 7:41 am As a first step you need to start documenting everything. This is best done by starting a paper trail. Write to your builder and copy to the building surveyor asking why no temporary downpipes were fitted during construction and why the soil levels particularly at the front of the house did not have the regulatory 150mm distance between the top of the slab and the adjacent ground. Ask for a reply within 10 business days. In the meantime get on to your concreter and ask for the concrete to be removed ASAP. You can also ask the concreter to confirm that he did not alter the ground levels. It would also be good, as Building Expert has pointed out, to get a condition report done on the house by a building consultant such as Building Expert. It will cost about $500 but will be worth it if you need evidence in future. Re: Concrete Perimeter around home 40Jul 26, 2016 12:59 pm Thanks I will start keeping a paper trail and diary of communication and when and where all the cracks started appearning now. Just doing my own research as well and according to our soil report our land has a very 'slight slope'.I would say inwards as otherwise our ss would not have told me a trench drain needs to be on our driveway during our pre settlement inspection. Unless the builders excavated too much? As our slab is laid pretty much at level or just a little below street level. We have 'P' class soil and especially if it has a slope downwards wouldn't it need proper drainage like a perimeter drain then? The concreter came yesterday morning and said he would be back to check it all out again later yesterday but has not shown up since. How long should I wait before conctacting him again? Not recommended! The image presented is for a sublevel area. The footings are down deep with a load bearing wall supporting the upper floor level. If you did that drain… 8 27155 Thanks for the photos. You need to know whether the inflow or the overflow pipe is leaking and this is a simple process of elimination. INFLOW: The vertical riser… 4 13717 Thanks again Simeon for being so elaborate. Appreciate it. Its gives us a very idea. Kind Regards 4 15823 |