Haha, just one more loop hole for the unscrupulous builders out there.
Using my LG-G4 to bring you this update.
Browse Forums Paving & Concreting Re: Photos of 50mm fall to concrete apron 41Jul 19, 2015 6:29 pm SaveH2O Sooo...The MBA instructs its members to give their customers advice that, if followed, gives their members a get out of jail free card in the instance of slab heave! Haha, just one more loop hole for the unscrupulous builders out there. Using my LG-G4 to bring you this update. Re: Photos of 50mm fall to concrete apron 42Jul 19, 2015 6:33 pm The advice is non compliant and ignorance of the actual regulations is no defence. It's just sad the advice isn't updated. Creator of superduperonium, expert at expert things, nobel laureate, can hold my breath for 10 minutes. Re: Photos of 50mm fall to concrete apron 46Jul 19, 2015 9:01 pm When? 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Photos of 50mm fall to concrete apron 48Jul 20, 2015 8:22 am Ponzu http://imgur.com/GrnBXjP http://imgur.com/W3xkSnv That's about 55mm fall. Was originally laid about 20mm and had to be ripped up and laid again. Thanks Building Expert! In my research I had contacted Dr. Steve Lawler, the guy who wrote the CSIRO guide ,where the fall required if I recall correctly is less than the BCA/NCC. In his email he's stated that there was no provision for fall in the BCA when he wrote the CSIRO guide. Since then the NCC was updated to include a fall of 50mm. His view was stick to the NCC. Thanks Ponzu, Thats exactly what i was looking for! Re: Photos of 50mm fall to concrete apron 49Aug 04, 2015 8:59 pm Just thought would ask a question about fall - AC and rainwater tank slabs near house - they obviously need fall - is this a problem for the tank to be 50mm fall over a metre? If the slab is flat how do you ensure drainage - channels in concrete?? Re: Photos of 50mm fall to concrete apron 50Mar 06, 2018 3:48 pm Sorry to revive an old thread, but I have similar concerns. National Construction Code says: NCC Part 3.1.2.3 Surface water drainage. Surface water must be diverted away from the Dwelling as follows: (a) Slab-on-ground – finished ground level adjacent to buildings: The external finished surface surrounding the slab must be drained to move surface water away from the building and graded to give slope of not less than: (i) 25mm over the first 1.0m from the building in low rainfall intensity areas for surfaces that are reasonably impermeable (such as concrete or clay paving); or (ii) 50mm over the first 1.0m from the building in any other case. NB: as far as I am aware 25mm over 1 metre is expressed as 1:40 and 50mm over 1 metre is expressed as 1:20 (let me know if this is wrong though). Following obtaining my own independent building report I have explained to the builder that the concrete apron around my entire house is not compliant for many reasons, one being not sufficient gradient to direct water away from the house and two, 10mm below weepholes not 75mm (I will not go into this second issue here). My builder has told me that the concrete they poured is compliant around my entire house because according to the CSIRO document (which is outdated) all there needs to be is a 16.7mm fall over the metre (1:60 ratio only), even though anyone can see it does not have any fall at all which you can see with an untrained eye. You can see in the attached photo of my concrete that it clearly does not have ANY gradient away from our house, if anything , it tips up at the end causing ponding. Currently the builder's rep has told me it is FINE the way it is. Very very disappointed with their conduct. Thoughts anyone? Am I correct along with my building surveyor to say that the NCC 25mm over 1 metre is the bare minimum requirement? The builder tells me I am wrong but is yet to explain why. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: Photos of 50mm fall to concrete apron 51Mar 06, 2018 9:57 pm The CSIRO document has no legal standing and it cannot over rule the legislated regulations. The reference to a 1:40 slope (25mm over the first metre) is for houses constructed in a low intensity rainfall area. If you are in Melbourne Metro, you are not in a low intensity rainfall area and a 1:20 (50mm slope over the first metre) is required. A low rainfall intensity area is a region having a maximum Average Recurrence Interval (ARI) of 125 mm/hr. The ARI is expressed as an average rainfall intensity per minute over a 5 minute duration. Melbourne metro is 130mm/hr. Adelaide for example is a low intensity rainfall area of 120mm/hr.. EDITED ABOVE 8/12/18. Additional information (second sentence). You should also have someone check your roof drainage for compliance as many builders in Victoria build to the BCA regs but only the much better Australian Standards are recognised in Victoria for roof and storm water drainage compliance due to there being a variation in Appendix Part D1 in the Plumbing Code of Australia (PCA) which is Part 3 of the National Construction Code (NCC) that removes the BCA as a Deemed to Satisfy requirement for roof drainage installations. Non compliant roof drainage has been endemic in Victoria for many years but the VBA are starting to crack down on non compliance. Do you also have a water tank? A lot of endemic sub standard practices there too. It is a bit hard to tell from the photo the height of the ORG but I would be using a straight edge to see if the levels are compliant. If not, I would be checking to see whether a reflux valve has been fitted. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Photos of 50mm fall to concrete apron 52Mar 07, 2018 7:06 am The VBA really needs to step in and inform the building industry - including the Master Builders Association and the HIA - that the CSIRO document is not correct as regards slope. Simondsbuild1, if you are in an area with highly reactive soil the VBA actually issued a document in August of 2015 stating that you need to ensure that: there is a minimum slope of 70mm for the first metre away from the house in very reactive soils. see: http://www.vba.vic.gov.au/__data/assets ... _FINAL.pdf Re: Photos of 50mm fall to concrete apron 53Mar 07, 2018 8:09 am SaveH2O The CSIRO document has no legal standing and it cannot over rule the legislated regulations. The reference to a 1:40 slope (25mm over the first metre) is for houses constructed in a low intensity rainfall area. If you are in Melbourne Metro, you are not in a low intensity rainfall area and a 1:20 (50mm slope over the first metre) is required. A low rainfall intensity area is classified as an area having a maximum Average Recurrence Interval (ARI) of 120 mm/hr. The ARI is expressed as an average rainfall intensity per minute over a 5 minute duration. Melbourne metro is 130mm/hr. Adelaide is a low intensity rainfall area. You should also have someone check your roof drainage for compliance as many builders in Victoria build to the NCC regs but only the much better Australian Standards are recognised in Victoria for roof drainage compliance due to there being a variation in Appendix Part D1 in the Plumbing Code of Australia (PCA) which is Part 3 of the National Construction Code (NCC). Non compliant roof drainage has been endemic in Victoria for many years but the VBA are starting to crack down on non compliance. Do you also have a water tank? A lot of endemic poor practices there too. It is a bit hard to tell from the photo the height of the ORG but I would be using a straight edge to see if the levels are compliant. If not, I would also be checking to see whether a reflux valve has been fitted. Thank you for the invaluable information. The builder is relying on the CSIRO for some reason. I have told them they need to refer to NCC but they do not listen to me. It is so difficult and really quite shocking that they would include the superseded CSIRO Foundation Maintenance brochure in the handover folder. Lucky for us, we have recourse against the builder as we contracted the builder to include the concrete apron in our building contract not an independent contractor of our own. We are in Gippsland, Victoria. Can you direct me to a website I can check the rainfall intensity levels? We were required to have a water tank to flush 2 toilets as per our land contract. To an untrained eye it seems the ORG is below the lowest outlet in the house but I would have to get a professional to check that. What is a reflux valve? I note the main bathroom which does not get used as much has a smell of sewerage when you run the shower after a week of non-use. I assumed this is normal as the water in the pipe had dropped too low allowing the smell to escape when you run the water. This goes away when we have guests using the bathroom each day. Re: Photos of 50mm fall to concrete apron 54Mar 07, 2018 8:11 am Liliana The VBA really needs to step in and inform the building industry - including the Master Builders Association and the HIA - that the CSIRO document is not correct as regards slope. Simondsbuild1, if you are in an area with highly reactive soil the VBA actually issued a document in August of 2015 stating that you need to ensure that: there is a minimum slope of 70mm for the first metre away from the house in very reactive soils. see: http://www.vba.vic.gov.au/__data/assets ... _FINAL.pdf We are class S soil Re: Photos of 50mm fall to concrete apron 56Mar 07, 2018 10:16 am Liliana Simondsbuild1, if you are in an area with highly reactive soil the VBA actually issued a document in August of 2015 stating that you need to ensure that: there is a minimum slope of 70mm for the first metre away from the house in very reactive soils. see: http://www.vba.vic.gov.au/__data/assets ... _FINAL.pdf Hi Liliana, The linked VBA document is a very good guide but that is all it is...a Guide. It has no legal standing. The VBA has always been high on rhetoric but low on enforcement and spot inspections. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Photos of 50mm fall to concrete apron 57Mar 07, 2018 10:25 am SaveH2O Liliana Simondsbuild1, if you are in an area with highly reactive soil the VBA actually issued a document in August of 2015 stating that you need to ensure that: there is a minimum slope of 70mm for the first metre away from the house in very reactive soils. see: http://www.vba.vic.gov.au/__data/assets ... _FINAL.pdf Hi Liliana, The linked VBA document is a very good guide but that is all it is...a Guide. It has no legal standing. The VBA has always been high on rhetoric but low on enforcement and spot inspections. Why do builders include this CSIRO document in their handover folders do you think? Is it ignorance or a tactic so that if owners do end up doing their own concrete paving inline with the CSIRO instead of the NCC then the builders can say, in the event of slab heave, well you didn't follow the NCC compliance requirements. You know the CSIRO is hugely different and says concrete paving can be 10mm below base of weepholes, where the NCC and Aus Standards say 75mm. Terribly that the CSIRO is still being circulated. Re: Photos of 50mm fall to concrete apron 58Mar 07, 2018 1:44 pm Simondsbuild1 Why do builders include this CSIRO document in their handover folders do you think? Is it ignorance or a tactic so that if owners do end up doing their own concrete paving inline with the CSIRO instead of the NCC then the builders can say, in the event of slab heave, well you didn't follow the NCC compliance requirements. It would be easy to stick a notation in the document that stated the actual regulation. It would also be easy to update the CSIRO document. It is well known within the industry that the CSIRO document contains this serious misinformation. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. You are correct. Just read through all the ncc rules and 75mm is the minimum requirement for me. 4 11179 Thank you Splashers. Tomorrow I might check if I can get a few packs of 300x300 in the same tile finish. It may be good to use these could in the shower recesses. I'm not… 4 4682 I've got a challenge here. Background is the builder has cut too deep for the slab and the slab is now below the very substantial retaining wall. It's failed occupancy… 0 18394 |