Browse Forums Paving & Concreting 1 Feb 13, 2015 11:30 pm We are now approaching that stage in construction where next worry is post handover concreting for driveway and sides, rear of the house. I have done some research and requested my first quote based on following: 1. All 100mm concrete all around the house including driveway. 2. Using 72 grade reinforcement with 32 MPa concrete at front and 25MPa on sides are rear of the house. 3. Excavation and road base and compaction as standard. 4. Bar chairs only under reinforcement at front. Concreter told me it's not possible on side and rear as they would be carrying concrete in wheelbarrow. But he assured me to lift reinforcements with some hook while pouring concrete. 5. There would be adequate drains all around the house. 6. Two wet look coats of sealer would be applied on front exposed aggregate only. 7. There would a grate across garage which would connect to raiser pipe. Please let me know if I'm missing something here. My biggest confusion or concern is right hand side of the house. As you can see in pic below, our neighbor's washed their side path or water plants and all water is coming on our side. What's the best solution to cop with this? Concreter advised me to remove fence, dig deep and add another sleeper to make sort of retaining wall. Then excavate on our side and then build concrete path with slope away from our house. btw we want to concrete both sides from brick to fence. Re: Concreting advice pls 2Feb 14, 2015 5:31 am A few comments I would be going for at least SL82 on an exposed aggregate driveway. You seem to be prepared to pay a reasonable amount so I would asking for a price for the concretor to use a pump for placement as pulling the mesh up is NOT a reliable method of getting the reinforcement right. You haven't mentioned anything about the Joints. Making sure these are done right is important to ensure you don't get cracking in the middle of slabs. For more information check out the following link http://www.anewhouse.com.au/category/co ... /concrete/ The concretors advice about the retaining wall is fair enough if you want path from wall to fence. If it was me I would be putting a retaining wall in front of the fence and accepting the reduced width. The Harder You Try - the Luckier You Get ! Web site http://www.anewhouse.com.au Informative, Amusing, and Opinionated Blog - Over 600 posts on all aspects of building a new house. Re: Concreting advice pls 3Feb 14, 2015 6:21 am I am with bashworth but maybe a aggi drain in the ground just your side of the fence under the path to storm water drain and don't concrete to the plinth of fence, leave a gap so fence can get replaced when it is due and this gap could be filled with some crushed rock. You have nearly everything else covered in your initial instructions to concreter. Well done. Re: Concreting advice pls 4Feb 14, 2015 10:04 am bashworth A few comments I would be going for at least SL82 on an exposed aggregate driveway. You seem to be prepared to pay a reasonable amount so I would asking for a price for the concretor to use a pump for placement as pulling the mesh up is NOT a reliable method of getting the reinforcement right. You haven't mentioned anything about the Joints. Making sure these are done right is important to ensure you don't get cracking in the middle of slabs. For more information check out the following link http://www.anewhouse.com.au/category/co ... /concrete/ The concretors advice about the retaining wall is fair enough if you want path from wall to fence. If it was me I would be putting a retaining wall in front of the fence and accepting the reduced width. Thanks for your feedback on this. I'm a big fan of your site, bought PCI guide from there too. Our Concreter was not sounding convinced to use 32MPa concrete. According to him, 32 MPa has more tendency to crack, and it's better not to go above 25 MPa. I have noticed few posts on H1 forum where people made similar point. But I'm still confused why a higher concentrated cement concrete is not good for domestic application and more prone to cracks? There is merely $20 per cubic meter price difference between 25 and 32 MPa concrete and customer is ready to pay for that, why reluctance to use 32MPa? Is there any special care or skill set is required to pour for Concreter? I'll amend my request today to use F82 only for driveway and F72 for the surrounds would be fine. He mentioned pump rental would cost around $900 for the job. but now I'm thinking that our next door block is vacant so he can drive concrete truck around and pour directly to one side and back of the house without hassle of wheelbarrow. Only that side in above photo would require wheelbarrow. But again if they start the side from middle towards front and back it can be achieved. What do you think? Re: Concreting advice pls 5Feb 14, 2015 10:05 am goody59 I am with bashworth but maybe a aggi drain in the ground just your side of the fence under the path to storm water drain and don't concrete to the plinth of fence, leave a gap so fence can get replaced when it is due and this gap could be filled with some crushed rock. You have nearly everything else covered in your initial instructions to concreter. Well done. We have one wooden sleeper under the fence already. So should we leave about 100mm gap between fence and concrete. and run Agri pipe connected to storm water drain. then fill up with road base on the top. This way no weeds on that side and not to worry about water flowing from neighbor's side. Re: Concreting advice pls 6Feb 14, 2015 10:23 am Concreter explained me that he would be back next day to saw cuts. he didn't specify on what distance. But from Bashworth's site, I believe they have to be 2.5m apart on 100mm thick concrete. Would definitely take a day off from work to make sure they would weaken mesh on every joint location. These things can be easily missed. Re: Concreting advice pls 7Feb 14, 2015 10:24 am Should pathway slab cover one brick or should it be levelled to slab? Re: Concreting advice pls 8Feb 14, 2015 11:49 am Some answers Our Concreter was not sounding convinced to use 32MPa concrete. According to him, 32 MPa has more tendency to crack, and it's better not to go above 25 MPa. Basically by getting a stronger concrete you are getting a higher cement content. Higher cement content mixes can actually crack more readily due to increased cement hydration rate (chemical reaction with water). Is there any special care or skill set is required to pour for Concreter? Although there are some very skilled concreters about [for example ONC artisan on this site] there are a lot of people who learn on the job without much real understanding of the final properties of the material. Their main skill is being able to provide a good top surface. He mentioned pump rental would cost around $900 for the job. but now I'm thinking that our next door block is vacant so he can drive concrete truck around and pour directly to one side and back of the house without hassle of wheelbarrow. Only that side in above photo would require wheelbarrow. But again if they start the side from middle towards front and back it can be achieved. What do you think? Without bar chairs it is a lottery where the steel finishes up. You could get the concrete placed from the wheel barrow in heaps. Pull the steel up between the heaps insert bar chairs and then spread. Should pathway slab cover one brick or should it be levelled to slab? I'd be going for at least 100mm (one brick) below Damp Proof Course The Harder You Try - the Luckier You Get ! Web site http://www.anewhouse.com.au Informative, Amusing, and Opinionated Blog - Over 600 posts on all aspects of building a new house. Re: Concreting advice pls 9Feb 14, 2015 12:18 pm mirz goody59 I am with bashworth but maybe a aggi drain in the ground just your side of the fence under the path to storm water drain and don't concrete to the plinth of fence, leave a gap so fence can get replaced when it is due and this gap could be filled with some crushed rock. You have nearly everything else covered in your initial instructions to concreter. Well done. We have one wooden sleeper under the fence already. So should we leave about 100mm gap between fence and concrete. and run Agri pipe connected to storm water drain. then fill up with road base on the top. This way no weeds on that side and not to worry about water flowing from neighbor's side. Crushed rock or some road base if that road base was porous enough would work for me. 100 mm gap sounds good. Something that would easily allow water to enter into agg drain. Maybe under crushed rock some filter type mesh material so the agg drain doesn't get silted up even. I am no expert just have a view on how I would like it to work. You are are going to put a fall on that perimeter concrete apron/path of the required amount I assume and some type of mastic type joint between path and house? A spoon drain on the outside of the apron that drains into storm water is also recommended from the reading I have done. I am sorry if you have already stated fall and drain in your original post, I can't recall. Bashworth is the expert on this subject. Re: Concreting advice pls 10Feb 15, 2015 8:47 am It depends on your soil type as well, as in the aus standards there is mention that compacted clay rather than crushed rock to be used with reactive soil types Re: Concreting advice pls 11Feb 15, 2015 8:02 pm Hi, Where in Melb are you located? How much is the concreter charging you? What type of concrete are you pouring along teh side of the house? Make sure you don't cover your weep hole.....and as bashworh has stated the damp course level. A couple of questions; Since you property sits lower than next doors and it looks like your soil falls towards your house how does the concreter plan to fall the concrete away form your house? The location of ableflex joints? I would be putting in a aggi along teh fence line with inspection poitns for service and as deep as you can get it. Alos you could consider a cut off wall inground but your cost will be alot more however it should stop any water under the pavement geting onto your property. 'It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.' Re: Concreting advice pls 12Feb 16, 2015 6:33 am Handy007 I would be putting in a aggi along teh fence line with inspection poitns for service and as deep as you can get it. Just make sure that if you do this you are not digging near your neighbour's foundations. There appears to be a garage on the boundary. This always makes digging to achieve the right fall or to put in agi pipes problematic as you could end up destabilising their foundations. We are in this situation and it is very difficult to come up with a solution that protects the foundations on both sides. Re: Concreting advice pls 13Feb 16, 2015 12:02 pm Handy007 Hi, Where in Melb are you located? How much is the concreter charging you? What type of concrete are you pouring along teh side of the house? Make sure you don't cover your weep hole.....and as bashworh has stated the damp course level. A couple of questions; Since you property sits lower than next doors and it looks like your soil falls towards your house how does the concreter plan to fall the concrete away form your house? The location of ableflex joints? I would be putting in a aggi along teh fence line with inspection poitns for service and as deep as you can get it. Alos you could consider a cut off wall inground but your cost will be alot more however it should stop any water under the pavement geting onto your property. we are in Melbourne outer northern suburb. i have asked concrete to use plain 25MPa concrete on side and rear pathways with F72 reinforcement mesh. he has not sent me a quote, so still waiting to hear back from him regarding his charges. i was expecting him to give me quote and if that is within market rate range then we will ask him to provide us more detailed information on how and what exact material is he going to use. definitely going to excavate all current dirt, and start concrete from the slab height. i'm quote positive that he told me that he would be concreting from the height of first brick. i don't think that would be a good idea. What mr concrete explained me during our on site meeting that he will excavate and scrap all dirt from the side first to make level away from the house. Now it's becoming more interesting how to deal with this situation when we would hit neighbors garage? Agri pipe seems like only option to go, as I don't think digging deep next to their foundations would be a good idea. problem is our concreter has promised me three times so far that he is going to email me quote tonight. I'm still waiting for his "tonight" Re: Concreting advice pls 14Feb 16, 2015 1:22 pm Slab Heave Recipient It depends on your soil type as well, as in the aus standards there is mention that compacted clay rather than crushed rock to be used with reactive soil types so does this mean we should use compacted clay instead of crush rock under driveway and pathways around the house. our site was classified as P for the slab construction. Re: Concreting advice pls 15Feb 16, 2015 1:40 pm goody59 Crushed rock or some road base if that road base was porous enough would work for me. 100 mm gap sounds good. Something that would easily allow water to enter into agg drain. Maybe under crushed rock some filter type mesh material so the agg drain doesn't get silted up even. I am no expert just have a view on how I would like it to work. You are are going to put a fall on that perimeter concrete apron/path of the required amount I assume and some type of mastic type joint between path and house? A spoon drain on the outside of the apron that drains into storm water is also recommended from the reading I have done. I am sorry if you have already stated fall and drain in your original post, I can't recall. Bashworth is the expert on this subject. does this mean that all side pathway should slope away from the house and use agri drain to drain all the water into storm water? Re: Concreting advice pls 16Feb 16, 2015 3:27 pm mirz Slab Heave Recipient It depends on your soil type as well, as in the aus standards there is mention that compacted clay rather than crushed rock to be used with reactive soil types so does this mean we should use compacted clay instead of crush rock under driveway and pathways around the house. our site was classified as P for the slab construction. AS2870-2011 5.6.4 Plumbing Requirements – Buildings on highly or extremely reactive sites shall be provided with a system of plumbing detailed in accordance with the following: (This entire section is applicable) · AS2870-2011 6.6 Additional requirements for moderately Highly & Reactive sites: (a) Where the design of the footing system relies on particular detailed of masonry construction to minimize any damage caused by foundation movement, that detailing shall be included on the drawings. (b) Penetration of the edge beam and footing ……. (c) During construction, water run-off shall be collected and channelled away from the building. (d) Excavation near the edge of the footing sustem shall be backfilled in such a way as to prevent access of water to the foundation as described in Clause 5.6.3(b) NOTE: 1. For example, excavations should be backfilled above or adjacent to the footing with moist clay compacted by hand-rodding or tamping. 2.Pourous material such as sand, gravel or building rubble should not be used. (e) Water shall not be allowed to pond in trenches. For slab or strip footings on highly and extremely reactive sites, the following requirements apply: (i) Drains attached to or emerging from underneath the building shall incorporate flexible joints immediately outside the footing and commencing within 1m of the building perimeter to accommodate a total range of differential movement in any direction equal to the estimated characteristic surface movement of the site (ys). In the absence of specific design requirements, the fittings or other devices that are provided to allow for the movement shall be set at the time of installation, so as to allow for movement equal it 0.5ys in any direction from the initial setting. This requirement applied to all stormwater and sanitary plumbing drains and discharge pipes. (ii) Concrete in beams shall be mechanically vibrated. · Also, in appendix B Foundation performance and Maintenance B2 Foundation Maintenance under B2.3 (a) Drainage of the site · AS4773.2-2010 Table 3.1Mortar Durability Requirements shows that Below a DPC or in contact with the ground it needs to be protected from water ingress by an impermeable membrane. · AS4773.2-2010 9.6 Damp Proof Courses, Flashings & weepholes needs to be ensure that it is adheard to by the concretor. Re: Concreting advice pls 17Feb 16, 2015 4:31 pm Thanks heaps Slab Heaves Recipient for such informative post. I want to discuss all this now with mr concreter but he is too busy to answer my calls It seems like to find some other good local concreter. Re: Concreting advice pls 18Feb 16, 2015 6:58 pm mirz goody59 Crushed rock or some road base if that road base was porous enough would work for me. 100 mm gap sounds good. Something that would easily allow water to enter into agg drain. Maybe under crushed rock some filter type mesh material so the agg drain doesn't get silted up even. I am no expert just have a view on how I would like it to work. You are are going to put a fall on that perimeter concrete apron/path of the required amount I assume and some type of mastic type joint between path and house? A spoon drain on the outside of the apron that drains into storm water is also recommended from the reading I have done. I am sorry if you have already stated fall and drain in your original post, I can't recall. Bashworth is the expert on this subject. does this mean that all side pathway should slope away from the house and use aggi drain to drain all the water into storm water? From the reading I have done there is a required set fall ( 50mm of fall over the 1 metre of apron from slab edge) of path/apron away from the house and the spoon drain formed in the path/apron itself with drainage of spoon drain going into your storm drains not just running down outside edge of path. CSIRO have a website with links to information regarding protecting your foundations from water. The aggi drain I referred to was only to deal with the water from your neighbour as per your photos posted. Re: Concreting advice pls 19Feb 16, 2015 8:25 pm Now I'm confused, my understanding was that agi drain or spoon drain basically do the same job when agi drain is discrete and spoon drain is all open. That's why was thinking to leave 100mm between fence and concrete and use agi drain. In this way agi drain would collect any water coming across the fence and take that to storm water. In this situation would ask concreter to build either round drain or grate on four meters apart on pathway slope to collect all other water from pathway and direct that stormwater connection. I'm not sure now where spoon drain would be installed in this scenario? Re: Concreting advice pls 20Feb 16, 2015 8:32 pm Hi, Make sure your concreter has insurance as well and gives you a copy of their policy in the unlikly event something happens. I would look at a small cut off wall inground about 6-8inches thick and deep as you can get it. 'It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.' It will be neat but you won't have much freeboard. At least they are not weep holes. Are you in a high intensity rainfall region? The regulatory slope is only required… 3 8264 We've had decent weather for last 7 weeks and now the drvieway has been cut out we had an evening of 50mm of rain including all the water from half the street, ground is… 0 4473 Just get as close as you can without hitting the posts. Once you are close to the edge of the path the chance of cracking is minimised. 7 9173 |