Is this normal for concrete driveway and footpath?

I just had my concrete driveway and footpath plus alfresco done and I noticed my builder only put the rubber foam around the base of the column at patio, while the rest of the house he drilled holes into the house's concrete slab and inserted steel rods into it and just tied the steel mesh to those....and I also didn't see him put "chairs" on the steel mesh as he and couple of workers just use hooks to pull up the mesh while the cement were poured.

So, I am now kind of worry if the house moves (as they surely will) will it cause a problem as the whole concrete footpath surrounding the house plus the driveway plus the alfresco which are now basically "locked-in" glued to the house??????!

Don't see a problem here, it's a good thing they doweled the paths to the house slab as this will stop your paths falling away.
Hooking the mesh up while the concrete is going in is pretty standard especially if they are pushing wheel barrows or backing trucks over the steel. Chairs simply collapse and you have to hook it up anyway.

I did my concrete myself the best way to do it is to have the chairs where the wheels of the truck wont go - usually the edge. Then slowly you lift up the mesh and put chairs underneath so they dont fall. For narrow paths its easier. YOu can just use wheelbarrows to place the concrete.

Yep, fairly normal practice. Putting the foam around the columns is to allow for expansion of the concrete. Pulling the mesh up is also fine, the mesh just needs to sit off the ground, they don't bother with the chairs if its a small area.

Really? This "hook and pull up" is standard practice nowadays? That's not what I was taught - the normal process where you put the steel mesh on "chair" and pour the cement. I didn't know chairs would fall like that.

Also, after hooking and pull-up the steel mesh would still fall to the bottom wouldn't it (without the chair to support it)?

Pulling up the steel doesn't work it just sinks (or is pressed) back to the bottom

It is cheap and unreliable. ( see the photo at http://www.anewhouse.com.au/2012/02/con ... ar-chairs/ for the typical result)

The correct method is to either plan for more than one pour so the truck can access the site or use a concrete pump.

Thanks Bashworth! That's incredibly informative!

GAWD. I think I just got SHAFTED by this cheap and nasty builder. I saw them using the "hook & pullup" technique when pouring the driveway and concrete footpath around the house. They assured me "it is alright mate!".. LOL!

He also didn't put plastic sheeting underneath as he poured the cement over bare earth - I am pretty sure this would cause the moisture to be suck out of it too fast and lead to cracking or weakening or both. A plastic sheeting is incredibly cheap and won't cost more than $100 bucks to cover a driveway!

http://www.bunnings.com.au/grunt-2-x-50 ... m_p0810372


I think that picture you mentioned needs to be seen by anyone who is considering getting their concrete driveway done!





Also, just how expensive are these little "bar chairs" anyway? Why would these contractors cheap out on getting these little plastic chairs? I bet they only cost pennies.


EDIT:
I just checked Bunnings - they cost $25 for a pack of 100 !!! Which translate to 25c per one!
http://www.bunnings.com.au/whites-on-si ... k_p0910173
http://www.bunnings.com.au/whites-on-si ... k_p0910175


So why would these F*CKING builders cheap out on something so incredibly cheap that would result in their reputation being destroyed?


Right now I am pretty angry at myself for taking on family friend's recommendation (he came highly recommended) using this particularly builder. The guy just didn't sit right with me from the get go (he wore a torn wifebeater/singlet that looks like a rag). The thing about this is that this family friend supposedly used this builder to built numerous houses and driveways (he is a realestate developer) and I can't fathom these people's house and the foundation/drivway start cracking after few years.

Also some tips for people who are having their drivway done:

1. make sure the mix is not too wet. Most concreaters, particularly those who lay paths, drives etc have a mix that is much too wet as that works easier for them and is easier to finish.

2. Make sure the finished job is cured correctly. Keep it as wet as possible once it has taken its first set, especially for the first seven days. Cement needs water to cure evenly as it goes through chemical process of curing and constant moisture is critical in the curing process.
DO NOT lay it in hot weather.

3. Use a decent F72 reinforcement mesh (reo), and make sure you (or the concreter) use bar chairs (saddles).
Do not allow the concreters to just lay the reo down and then lift it by hand as they go. Use saddles to keep the reo at the correct height will minimise surface cracks. Lifting it by hand will still allow the reo to sag in places leaving to much concrete above the reo which will make it weaker.

4. There is a product that consists of small strands (can be wire or various other fibers depending on the brand) that is added to the mix and will act as reinforcement to the top layer and help prevent the hair line shrinkage cracks.

5. Site preparation is imperative for a good concrete finish. The most important thing to follow is plastic under your concrete. Laying concrete over bare earth or sand will suck the moisture out of it to fast and lead to cracking. As mentioned keep the surface wet for at least a week will stop most surface cracks because it dries to fast and you get shrinkage which leads to hair line cracks.

a driveway poured with plastic under it? That's obviously out of the same handbook as above.

Not using chairs is definitely an accepted method. Thats the problem.
To many paths fail and they dont need to and then need to be replace. Do it properly do it once!!

Why can't they just use chairs instead of hook-and-pull-up?? Its not like a few minutes to make sure the mesh sits on the chair properly (and you don't need to use that many) is too much to ask, and the cost of chair is less than 25c per one!

True, but mixes need to be wetter the warmer it is.


Kind of False. The theory is nice but its kind of impossible to constantly keep the top of the slab wet. Cover it if you are worried, thats all thats need to make it dry out evenly. I dont believe casual watering with improve the finish to any extent. Once the top is white and dried out, thats it.


Not exactly right, It can be done. Concreting does not stop in summer. Granted though, you have less time to work it, so only the experienced should do it. Cool months are the best time to concrete


Hairline cracking will occur on any smooth finish. And cracking generally is a function of how well the reo is placed toward the top surface of the slab, how well it is overlapped, and whether the soil is reactive and whether you have taken appropriate measures for that , ie sand barrier.

What I am saying overall is there is a lot more to it than your casual observations.

I think what mgilla means is, that you are confusing engineer specified structural-strength concrete with non structural. Houses and the like must have the curing process rigidly adhered to to maximise strength, but with driveways and the like the requirement is not there, I believe most concretors just wet the substrate and lay the mix straight down.

A little but not too much OT !
Just occurred to me whilst thinking back on the last two concrete jobs, the truck drivers only took cash with no facility for CC payts and carried no change. Was same big name Co. both times, one big job $6000 ( 2 yrs ago) and one about $504.25 (8 mths ago). Didn't carry change 2nd time around so I gave him the $4.25 in 20c pcs.

Is this standard procedure ? because I certainly found it a pain in the...and will be making enquiries in advance for our next job.

That's probably because the truck drivers are regulary delivering to account customers, and no one thinks about the 'one-off' customers who have to pay cash.

Next time make enquiries about paying at order time via your credit card if you wish, or visit your closest 'hole in the wall' to get the cash out.

It is not standard, they are tax evading. Tow truck operators will run this rort day and night too.
All businesses should have C/C facilities, or accept personal cheques if they are delivering services to your property. Those that claim they do not are conning you. Ive always paid my concrete driver with personal cheques.

I think that's a rather broad/rash statement.

Cheques have almost gone the way of the dodo, and the concrete trucks that delivered all the concrete for my slab told me they do not have eftpos facilities on-board, as nearly all their work was done on accounts. Why would any concrete trucking business provide all trucks with eftpos facilities, when it is such a tiny part of their business ??

Of course as a one-off delivery, I'm sure you could pay when it was ordered via credit card over the phone to the depot, or you get the correct change to hand over to the driver when he delivers it.

Oh, and my slab was done by a concretor, and the concrete delivered was paid through his account, and I paid the concretor the total.

Sorry, you're out of touch

Because it's not a tiny part though. Lots of private individual get loads delivered. They have to take payment somehow. They ALL deliver loads as small as 2m³, so they want the business.

Only a fool would pre pay. Never once have I been asked for pre payment, not that they would get it. Companies prefer their drivers to handle payments in a form other than cash, hence cheques or eftpos it is.

Thats nice Brendan, and its obvious thats the basis of why you think things are run the way you do. By contrast, most of my slabs have been done on my own. Sometimes I use a contractor to finish it, in which case I ask them to ordered the load s I can get "mates rates" through his account, but I pay the account on delivery. Best of both worlds.

That would be a dumb way to run a business. you shore up your payment strategy so that you can take payment from both regulars and one offs.
Getting back to JJs comment though, just ask what payment they take other than cash when you order. IF they insist on cash, give them a bank cheque, or money order. Thay will pay tax on that.

I,Ve run my own business now for 15 years,and most if not all companies still get mostly paid by cheque, I send 40- 60 cheques monthly,it's the best way due to written documentation,3-5 days depending on postage to cancel or correct an error,and you have an instant outgoing of funds report available all the time,but cheques don't get used by the public has much these days,has cards for an individual better suited to their needs.

I was very surprised that a Coy like Boral would not have the resources for a cc payment on board, either manual or electronic. My local plumber does.

I was told on both occasions that "the drivers prefer cash" by the person I engaged to do the work, so I toddled down to the bank and cashed a chq for the big job and raided the Mrs' wallet for the little job.

It is the first and second time I have ever had any experience with concrete being delivered by truck so was not well versed in what the standards/procedures were. I know now.