Browse Forums Paving & Concreting 1 Aug 07, 2011 7:40 am I need some help. Is there a difference in function, "quality", appearance, longevity, ???something else?? between these 2 joints? Why does everyone have saw-cut joints, when it appers to be cheaper (and maybe easier?) to do them the old way? What's so bad with tooled joints? Why aren't we seeing more of them? My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Tooled vs. Saw-cut Joints 2Aug 07, 2011 12:02 pm Because the skill has been lost and it is easier to cut them later Where you are coming from is where you are going to... Re: Tooled vs. Saw-cut Joints 3Aug 07, 2011 3:01 pm Hey onc Thanks for replying!! How's the kiddo? Any more pics?? Umh, I digressed .. So it looks like there is no real difference, other than the tooling actually requiring more (or different) skills My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Tooled vs. Saw-cut Joints 4Aug 07, 2011 5:01 pm Saw cut works better for some surface finishes especially exposed aggregate. There is a fair bit of skill in doing a saw cut properly. If the saw cut isn't straight it looks fairly c**p Generally saw cuts are more effective in making sure the crack does form at the joint (which is what you want) as the cut puts more local stress in the slab than a formed joint. The Harder You Try - the Luckier You Get ! Web site http://www.anewhouse.com.au Informative, Amusing, and Opinionated Blog - Over 600 posts on all aspects of building a new house. Re: Tooled vs. Saw-cut Joints 5Aug 07, 2011 5:26 pm From what I have read previously tool cuts are better techinically. The main reason is that they are created while the concrete is still fresh. Where as saw cuts are done after the concrete is set. The issue is in some case concrete may start having microscopic cracks before the saw cuts can be done. These small cracks can further develop in to larger ones. Re: Tooled vs. Saw-cut Joints 7Aug 07, 2011 8:58 pm B STAR From what I have read previously tool cuts are better techinically. The main reason is that they are created while the concrete is still fresh. Where as saw cuts are done after the concrete is set. The issue is in some case concrete may start having microscopic cracks before the saw cuts can be done. These small cracks can further develop in to larger ones. Where you are coming from is where you are going to... Re: Tooled vs. Saw-cut Joints 8Aug 08, 2011 8:04 am Yeah, this makes sense to me! By the time they do the saw cuts, the concrete would have hardened already Does anyone have a pic of those "tools"?? Are they special tools just for this purpose, or can any sort of sharp thick blade do? If it's a special tool, does it also have something on it that automatically controls the depth of the groove?? (I know, lots of questions, but hey, that's me!! ) My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Tooled vs. Saw-cut Joints 9Aug 08, 2011 5:03 pm they are special tools for one purpose. google concrete vee joint tool the tool joint lost popularity during the colour and stencil concrete fad. it wasnt practical anymore. I think they look ugly anyway.. Re: Tooled vs. Saw-cut Joints 11Aug 09, 2011 7:28 pm they both are just as affective as each other. Saw cuts have to be done within 24 hr(but concrete can tear, chip because its still green with saw cut) hand tool joints are mainly used now on public footpaths and crossovers hand tool joints stand out, saw cuts not so much saw cuts look more contemporary they dont collect as much dirt etc i saw cut all domestic conc. but still hand tool crossovers and public footpaths as per council specs. Da Vinci Outdoor Living Architectural landscaping http://www.davincioutdoor.com Re: Tooled vs. Saw-cut Joints 12Aug 10, 2011 7:19 am Thanks, davinci, it's now getting more clear Wondering why Councils would want them tooled and not saw cut?? Tradition? Or not willing to take risk of chipping? Or they just haven't updated all the specs documentation My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Tooled vs. Saw-cut Joints 13Aug 14, 2011 10:12 pm A lot of concreters will trowel joints on smaller jobs and only get us in if concrete goes of to quick and they are unable to trowel the joints or if the pour is to large to make trowel joints feasible. My thoughts on concrete joints is that Soff-cut is the best solution as it looks a lot tidier than trowel joints and they can be placed around 1-2 hour after slab finished, in some cases I have started to cut joints at one end of a job while the concreter's are still finishing the rest of the slab. Another advantage for soffcut is that the skid plate stops rocks from being thrown from exposed concrete slab which is what happens when using conventional cutting methods. One of the main advantages for the cutter with Soffcut is that no power or water is required , ideal for cutting joints on shed slabs in remote areas. Also the dust generated when soffcutting only needs to be broomed of whereas slurry made using conventional cutting has to be hosed off, often new houses in remote areas wont have the water tank connected at that stage, and councils tend to frown upon it anyway. Soffcutting will not tear or chip the surface and although the meter rate will be slightly higher(eg. conventional $2pm soffcut $3pm) I would recommend on insisting your concreter uses the Soff-cut method to cut the same day or the next morning for exposed ag. Re: Tooled vs. Saw-cut Joints 14Aug 15, 2011 7:39 am ozx6r Soffcutting will not tear or chip the surface and although the meter rate will be slightly higher(eg. conventional $2pm soffcut $3pm) I would recommend on insisting your concreter uses the Soff-cut method to cut the same day or the next morning for exposed ag. We had an external slab done and it was indeed chipped while saw cutting. Not a problem because it will be tiled later, but I wouldn't like that on a new driveway. BTW, seems like this "Soff-cut" is a brand name for some kind of saw??? My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Tooled vs. Saw-cut Joints 15Aug 15, 2011 7:53 am It seems like it's a Husqvarna - I watched an interesting video on YouTube last night because I'd never heard of it before. Pretty cool system from the looks. Re: Tooled vs. Saw-cut Joints 16Aug 15, 2011 4:38 pm I have seen one case where the saw cut was made and the cut was filled with a concrete coloured flexible silicone - looked good! Suburbia is where the developer bulldozes out the trees, then names the streets after them. Re: Tooled vs. Saw-cut Joints 17Aug 15, 2011 8:04 pm Yeah Soff-cut is the name of the system and it was purchased buy Husqvarna a few years back. There are other versions of early entry systems eg "cardinal" . Soffcut is the original and like "Biro" or the "Stanley" knife just the generic name people tend to use for the term. Fine with me... just let 'em step in with some affordable (but good) gear... 12 5451 All sorted guys. Just needed to buy a blade with the correct bush. Dunno how to delete this post, can't find any help file. Cheers. 1 3635 Hi All, First time poster. I was hoping to get some advice on villaboard installation within a bathroom. I have installed villaboard before, in a laundry. 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