Browse Forums Paving & Concreting 1 Mar 09, 2011 10:13 am Just been reading thru some stuff and was wondering if anyone ordered their concrete from the plant, instead of leaving it to the concretor? This is NOT for the house slab, it's for the 'landscaping concrete' - like driveway, patio, paths, trenches etc. If you did, how was the idea met by the concretor? Did you have trouble getting your way through? My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Has anyone ordered their own concrete? 3Mar 09, 2011 9:11 pm cclarity Why would you want to though? Well, they keep saying (and I agree) that we have to check that what has been ordered has been delivered. If we don't control the order ("mistakes" can happen at ordering time) and we also can't check what's been delivered, there is no chance to know what's been installed. Not to mention that we need to tell them not to add water, then we need to watch them closely to make sure they don't add water and don't wash the trucks into the concrete etc. Sounds like a rant ! My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Has anyone ordered their own concrete? 4Mar 10, 2011 8:07 am I'm always ordering concrete myself and having the concreters place. Including the house slab. Is it cheaper? not sure. I usually do the boxing up or forming up and placing the mesh. Then have a concreter or two for a day usually less than a whole day. Yes there can be big problems like trucks turning up and no concreters (check before batching) Never worried about right specs being delivered, all reputable plant operators. You would never know if the slump or mpa is right unless tested, regardless of who ordered the concrete. Big difference between 80 slump and 120 slump and that you could spot. As for standing over the site whilst the concreters are placing the concrete and making sure no additional water is added. Good luck Its not like you are dealing with a chippy or sparkie; time is of the essence and telling the concretors no additional water may see the concreters telling you, do you want a good job or not in no uncertain terms. Not to mention they may just walk off leaving you with a s^%t load of concrete. When it comes to making sure no additional water is added make sure it is well and truly discussed before hand the slump being ordered and its importance. Most of the time the additional water added is not a killer. I often order 32 mpa when only 25 mpa required knowing additional water will be added. However curing is just as important. If I wanted some concreting done and was not involved in forming up nor was I going to be around; would I order the concrete from the plant no. Good luck Pulpo Re: Has anyone ordered their own concrete? 5Mar 10, 2011 9:10 am Thanks, Pulpo ... Yeah, it seems like an average consumer does need lots of good luck ... "When it comes to making sure no additional water is added make sure it is well and truely discussed before hand the slump being ordered and its importance." This almost sounds like - if I discuss beforehand not to add water on site, my contractor may simply order a higher slump to make it easier for them - and how should we know ... I read over and over not to add water or not to order slump > 80 ... so we are left in the dark and all we can do is pray that it doesn;t crack badly If we ask for higher strength (32), and if they order indeed 32 but 100 slump, we might be better off than ordering 25 and slump of 80 (or who knows what) ... This is scary ... http://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28178&p=672184&hilit=%27respected%27#p672184 My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Has anyone ordered their own concrete? 6Mar 10, 2011 9:31 am If your going to make sure your concrete is going in at 80 slump make sure you have enough people to place it.... dont expect to get a good job, if you have 6cu roll up with a concretor and 2 labourers to place and finish it at 80 slump... especially if its paths and driveways... sometimes the smaller stuff takes time... and concrete will not wait for you, by the time you get to the end of the truckload your concrete can be unworkable before it leaves the chute without adding water. Order small loads, or employ more concretors, or add some water. Seems like there is alot of fear about adding some water... at times its a necessary evil and 98% of the time you would never know it was added. *edit* Not having a go at you Lex.... just make sure you are well prepared. Your stress may not be worth it I have worked with concrete on occasion, its not always easy. Re: Has anyone ordered their own concrete? 7Mar 10, 2011 6:51 pm Thanks, cc . I'm not taking this as having a go at me at all, I appreciate your comments. We (consumers) can read all we want, but there are things that are just not written! Not to mention all the tips acquired and accumulated thru experience ... I just wanted to explore other options - because of a few bad tradies here and there who spoil it for us all From memory, the concretor said he's got a team of 6 or so ... and I was always wondering why are the concreting teams so big Yes, we have paths and driveways, and more 'slabs' at the back of the house, trenches/foundations for various garden things, some piers maybe too. Plus, we'd probably be doing the stencil imprints as well (in colour-through mix, so at least there's no fiddling with throwing on the colour). The guy said he'll probably do 2 days, 2 pours. I was so shocked ... still am, this never came up with other guys (or maybe they just didn't want to 'scare' us). We have about 140-150 m2 ... a very small part of that would be plain conc ... Is 2 days really warranted? My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Has anyone ordered their own concrete? 9Mar 12, 2011 3:59 pm Firstly the plant will have delivery receipt ask the concreters for a copy it will clearly state the slump. Also 80 slump is very hard to work with and I would prefer a better finish than maintaining the 80 slump. You could add a water reducer which will really increase slump but will not effect the concrete strength. I would have thought a team of 6 guys should be able to do 150m2 in day, easy, including the stenciling. Assuming they all know what they are doing. However without seeing the site could not say for sure. Good luck. Re: Has anyone ordered their own concrete? 10Mar 12, 2011 6:59 pm Thanks Pulpo. What's water reducer? Slump goes up, strength stays the same? Does it mean no water, or is it actually water mixed with something else? Hmmm ... I have no idea if these guys know what they are doing. We saw 2 of their jobs. One recent (pathways around a big complex, thick hairline cracks already, the guy said they were pressed to pour in very high temps). The other job is stencils, looks good but there are a few blobs of plain concrete formed when they pulled the stencil pattern ... My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Has anyone ordered their own concrete? 11Mar 12, 2011 7:52 pm In the old days when concrete was pumped they would add a cup of detergent to the mix to make if flow better. However that would reduce the strength of the concrete, I think it would add too much air. Apparently it was never authorised but many did it. These days you have water reducers that increases the slump of concrete but maintains strength. So normal amount of water is added to the mix at the plant then on site the concreters hand the truck driver water reducer to add to the mix. Its got a limited life of around 40 mins. Few seem to know exactly the amounts to mix, just had a pump operator, in the game for 30 years, I had the water reducer ready to add but all the pump operator wanted to do was just add more water There are many water reducers, BASF chemicals I have used. If I was absolutely concerned about maintaining slump then I would use the water reducer. The temp should be ok now to pour so just keep well water for curing should be ok you could use a curing compound. I can only think of one occassion that the slab was stuffed by adding too much water, for that matter it might have been over vibrated or the concrete delivered was stuffed. More often than not curing is the cause of cracks. Most residential concrete would be closer to a true 100 slump at a guess. And most slabs are just fine. Re: Has anyone ordered their own concrete? 12Mar 12, 2011 11:01 pm Thanks Pulpo. Is water reducer something that's routinely used, or do we ask for it? Do they charge for it, or is it just a better practice than to add just water? I read something long ago about the timing of curing agents and allegedly it's very tricky not to apply it too soon or too late. I think our concretors would laugh at us if we start asking for all these 'technical' things. My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Has anyone ordered their own concrete? 13Mar 13, 2011 6:06 am The concrete plant will have water reducers. the water reducer gives the particles of the concrete a negative charge and they resist one another. It can make the concrete feel quite rubbery. Re: Has anyone ordered their own concrete? 14Apr 03, 2011 5:38 am hey guys if you are going to put colour IN concrete then be sure to not add any water to mix if you are going to be getting more than one load as it will change the colour and your next load will not match.Has happened to me on a road i was building in rhodes.Checked the first 2 loads of a 40 cube pour then had to check on something else , when i came back i spotted the concretors adding water.Didnt show up that day but after a couple of days when concrete was cured you could see the lightening of the colour. Re: Has anyone ordered their own concrete? 15Apr 03, 2011 9:01 am I have never heard of a concrete plant delivering less than what is ordered. The colour thing( variation) is normal, water just evaporates. Where you are coming from is where you are going to... Re: Has anyone ordered their own concrete? 16Apr 03, 2011 1:37 pm We'd have to have more than one load for sure. They were even planning a 2 day pour. There would be a small difference in colour at the join (or so I'm told). Also one guy told me that, most likely, there would be colour patches/variations with colour through and that is something to do with how they cove the surface, something about different amounts of water on different surface areas bla bla didn't quite understand that. Plus we'll definitely have one area in dark shade and the front in full baking sun which apprently can also affect the colour. Plus I really really dislike the swirls So now we're thinking plain concrete whihc we can resurface later. Saw amazing looking jobs done the same way. I know it's probably silly to choose resurfacing over colour through, but it is by far the most attractive finish to me and more .... Is it silly ??? My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Hi Mofflepop, I would recommend finding a building designer to prepare plans, they should design to your specified budget. 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