Browse Forums Paving & Concreting Re: Paving, how to stop it moving 4Jul 04, 2010 5:30 pm Only after you have done the 'haunching' http://www.abc.net.au/gardening/stories/s1113260.htm Where you are coming from is where you are going to... Re: Paving, how to stop it moving 5Jul 05, 2010 5:24 pm I am in no way a paving expert but if you are not to keen on mortar you can use timber edge restraints. I am doing DIY paving currently and planning to using the Treated Pine sleepers ( 200 x 75 x 2.4m one's from Bunnings ). Go to http://www.pavingexpert.com. There is a link which talks about edge restraints. Great info. Have to look into it more but it seems that using polymeric sand instead of the standard gap sand also helps in binding the pavers together better. Not sure who stocks it in australia though. Cheers Avish Re: Paving, how to stop it moving 6Jul 05, 2010 5:57 pm We have just had our paving redone because it had too many gaps due to ground movement and kept flooding at one end. The paving was all lifted and the base re-levelled (by a professional) and all relaid. It now falls to the drain we had originally had installed for a run off. Our expert said to sweep in silica sand which he left for us. We have swept it in over weekend and lightly hosed over and it has now set fairly hard. Now hopefully no water should get in according to the expert. So maybe try getting some silica sand. It is very fine. I've just googled it. Check it out. A balanced diet is chocolate in both hands. Melbourne West Our build viewtopic.php?f=31&t=34169 Landscaping viewtopic.php?f=19&t=51147 Re: Paving, how to stop it moving 7Jul 07, 2010 9:56 am It is called pave set and is available @ bunnings in bags. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Paving, how to stop it moving 8Jul 08, 2010 9:54 am get your paving done on a slab. ours was done on crushed rock and sand a year ago and has already moved dreadfully. we used pave-set mentioned above but it hasn't stopped it moving. "Your emotions are the slaves to your thoughts, and you are the slave to your emotions." — Elizabeth Gilbert Living in our new house. Currently scaping the land. Re: Paving, how to stop it moving 9Jul 08, 2010 8:36 pm donuts get your paving done on a slab. ours was done on crushed rock and sand a year ago and has already moved dreadfully. we used pave-set mentioned above but it hasn't stopped it moving. Was this for the paths around the house or the driveway ? Cheers Avish Re: Paving, how to stop it moving 10Jul 10, 2010 10:30 am Overall and longevity wise the best way is to remove and re-do a proper base of preferably a concrete slab, set the pavers in mortar on top of this to the correct levels and fall, and hard grout the joints. As has been said, crushed rock base over time does move and if laid on mortar it will crack in the joints over time. If it is flexible paving (laid on sand bed on crushed rock) the joints won't crack but they will move. Never use hard grout on pavers set in sand because of this reason. If the paving is stable you could dig a trench about 250mm deep along the border and put some concrete haunching in. Slope the haunching to the edge of the paver so you don't see it and you can get some garden in around it without a huge lump of concrete being visible Planned Landscape Constructions http://www.plannedlandscape.com.au Find us on facebook http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id= ... 9907611509 Re: Paving, how to stop it moving 11Jul 12, 2010 8:55 am avish donuts get your paving done on a slab. ours was done on crushed rock and sand a year ago and has already moved dreadfully. we used pave-set mentioned above but it hasn't stopped it moving. Was this for the paths around the house or the driveway ? Cheers Avish paths around the house. I definitely wouldn't do a driveway like that! Planned LScape If it is flexible paving (laid on sand bed on crushed rock) the joints won't crack but they will move. Never use hard grout on pavers set in sand because of this reason. interesting. we were advised to use pave-set to stop movement. it might have even been from a landscaping expert on this forum! I can see now that it was the wrong advice though! Quote: If the paving is stable you could dig a trench about 250mm deep along the border and put some concrete haunching in. Slope the haunching to the edge of the paver so you don't see it and you can get some garden in around it without a huge lump of concrete being visible we have the haunching but it hasn't stopped the movement. "Your emotions are the slaves to your thoughts, and you are the slave to your emotions." — Elizabeth Gilbert Living in our new house. Currently scaping the land. Re: Paving, how to stop it moving 12Jul 13, 2010 7:01 am hmm... is pave-set different from pave-lok ? I am using pave-lok to fill up the gaps. The instructions on the packaging clearly state that it is to be used on flexible pavings and not rigid pavements. Cheers Avish Re: Paving, how to stop it moving 13Jul 14, 2010 9:47 pm donuts interesting. we were advised to use pave-set to stop movement. it might have even been from a landscaping expert on this forum! I can see now that it was the wrong advice though! we have the haunching but it hasn't stopped the movement. Pave set/Pave Lok (same thing different brands) is actually designed for pavers laid on a sand bed. It's basically chemically dried sand with a silica content which "gels" together when water is applied. Make sure the paving surface is very dry, and keep sweeping it in until no more drops into the joints inbetween the pavers. Then you will have to sweep off the entire excess and lightly hose with water on a fine spray. If any is left on top it can dry and leave shiny silver marks everywhere. Pave set is still porous and is sandy but the silica makes it bond together, a lot more so than standard fine washed sand on its own. Therefore it allows movement in the pavers. Pave Lok shouldn't be confused with a hard grout, in the instance of pavers being laid on a 6:1 mortar bed as per house bricks. The joints inbetween these are made about 7-10mm wide and a 3:1 sand:cement grout mix slurry is pushed into the gaps and sponged off to be clean. If the paving is still moving with the haunching in place, your base/subsoil is moving. Unfortunately the only way to fix that is excavate the whole lot out, remove soft subsoil/crappy base and put more compacted roadbase in and start over. Planned Landscape Constructions http://www.plannedlandscape.com.au Find us on facebook http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id= ... 9907611509 Re: Paving, how to stop it moving 14Jul 15, 2010 9:53 am Hey Planned Landscape, I know you are an advocate of conc slab under pavers, (sort of like using pavers as tiling I guess), what is you opinion of compacted roadbase with pavers laid in mortar bed over the top ? Still prone to movement if the compaction and edge containment is done well ? Would you grout this with mortar ? Checked out your website, very slick! cheers Re: Paving, how to stop it moving 15Jul 15, 2010 11:07 am thanks planned lscape, i think i interpreted your original post incorrectly, you were saying not to use hard grout between pavers on crushed rock & sand, not pave-set. so no worries. we had had the area excavated, had no idea that doing the other stuff would help so much in making it not move. oh well. i think if we ever get it redone we'll just get a concrete base put down next time. "Your emotions are the slaves to your thoughts, and you are the slave to your emotions." — Elizabeth Gilbert Living in our new house. Currently scaping the land. Re: Paving, how to stop it moving 16Jul 17, 2010 12:23 am Some of the difference in methods mentioned here comes from the fact that in WA/ Perth we are basically on sand, no clay. This means our ground is far more stable. This is the same reason most of our building sites are Class A. My mate is a landscaper from Melbourne and when he first moved over here he was amazed that we lay our pavers straight on the sand with no concrete slab. If our driveways are laid on crushed road base and sand screed with correct compaction and the haunching is done correctly, it will never move. With clay soils, you will always get movement when wet. Why would you pour a concrete slab and then pave over the top, because you have to if you want pavers. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Paving, how to stop it moving 17Jul 17, 2010 11:46 am keen Hey Planned Landscape, I know you are an advocate of conc slab under pavers, (sort of like using pavers as tiling I guess), what is you opinion of compacted roadbase with pavers laid in mortar bed over the top ? Still prone to movement if the compaction and edge containment is done well ? Would you grout this with mortar ? Checked out your website, very slick! cheers Hi Keen You can lay pavers on a compacted crushed rock base and a mortar bed. Plenty of people still do it and there are jobs that last a fair while using that method. You have to make sure however the area is excavated properly, get rid of all topsoil and get down to a stable sub soil, add in your roadbase in 50mm layers and compact thoroughly, as if you put down 100mm at once it doesn't seem to compact as well. Wet down a tad to help with the compaction, even better if you use a cement stabilised rock (boral supplies a 3% or 5% cement added crushed rock mix) or you can rake through cement. Or sprinkle cement over the top about 10mm thick and hose into the rock works quite well in binding it. I just choose to lay a conc slab 1st particularly in Melbourne where most areas are on clay or disturbed soil as it ensures the base, and in particularly the pavers on top, won;t be moving. It adds more cost to the job, but also adds life to the pavement. Easier to get more accurate levels too. Planned Landscape Constructions http://www.plannedlandscape.com.au Find us on facebook http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id= ... 9907611509 Re: Paving, how to stop it moving 19Oct 20, 2010 1:26 pm here are some (long-awaited - sorry ) photos of how my paving has moved for Lex... sorry it took so long Lex! Looking at them now, I'm not sure they are as bad as I made out anyway, you can judge for yourself the first three are the worst section, across the back of the house. the line/gap on the left is a lot wider than the line closer to the house. This is where it's come away the most. The first is a close-up of a couple in this section including the extra wide gap. The others are down the side of the house and in the courtyard, which aren't so bad. mostly lipping. and weeds Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ "Your emotions are the slaves to your thoughts, and you are the slave to your emotions." — Elizabeth Gilbert Living in our new house. Currently scaping the land. Re: Paving, how to stop it moving 20Oct 22, 2010 11:41 am Oh, I see donuts! Great idea too to put some pegs there so we can get an idea about the sizes ... Anyway, I can't see that there is much "grout" or sand in between these pavers ... I suppose at some point you would have to redo the worst sections and put more grout or something? Although it's a PITA Thanks !! My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... 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