Browse Forums Paving & Concreting 1 Jan 11, 2010 10:34 pm Hi All - I had a concretor in after Christmas to extend my alfresco (an extra 3mx5m, making it 7mx5m), and run a path (1m wide) around the side and back of the house. The work has all been done directly against the house (touching directly on external walls or the alfresco section of the house's slab. I didn't think anything of it (as I wouldn't have known any better!), until today, when I had a rep from our builder at the house for another reason, and he saw the work done. He told me that the concretor should have used expansion joins between the house and the concrete. He said that if the conctrete path or alfresco extention moves or cracks, it can crack the house as well!!! A friend told me that if they use steel reinforcment in the work, then it doesn't matter... but now I just dont know! Builder rep suggested that if the concrete is cut a few inches out from the house, this will allow movement without damaging the house, so I guess that is an option... Can anyone please verify or elaborate on any of this? Will cutting the concrete work? Should the concretor have done this, or is it not necessary? If he should have done it, can I make him come back and do any rectification work? Building with PD - Regent 23 in Point Cook WE'RE IN!!! Landscaping! Re: Help! Could my new concrete damage my house???? 2Jan 11, 2010 10:51 pm Yep jointing needs to be done during the pour or after within a day or 2. It won't crack your house any more than the cracks in your slab will. If the builder tries to use it as an excuse to obsolve him/them from warranty tell them to go jump. The granos ( term used loosely) doesn't 'cut' the jointing and the path extends beyond 6mtrs they need to be cuffed and told to swim in shark infested water, should they survive use their heads to bust open the concrete and replace it! I am soooo f***** tired of hearing this typical slack behavour. Sorry for my language but I am really really cheesed off. Where you are coming from is where you are going to... Re: Help! Could my new concrete damage my house???? 3Jan 11, 2010 11:44 pm I'm sorry... I don't understand any of what you said! Aside from that he should have done jointing... the rest I just dunno... Building with PD - Regent 23 in Point Cook WE'RE IN!!! Landscaping! Re: Help! Could my new concrete damage my house???? 4Jan 12, 2010 1:47 am beejay The work has all been done directly against the house (touching directly on external walls or the alfresco section of the house's slab. He told me that the concretor should have used expansion joins between the house and the concrete. He said that if the conctrete path or alfresco extention moves or cracks, it can crack the house as well!!! Uh oh, really? Re: Help! Could my new concrete damage my house???? 5Jan 12, 2010 6:56 am OMG, I'm sorry to hear of this potential trouble. I keep finding that, as owners, we always have to be two steps ahead of whichever trades we are hiring (to be able to spot the problem before it's too late to fix it). I think it goes for everything we buy (including medical services) and it seems that it all depends on one's luck in who we end up getting. We have to invest time not only into investigating the product/service we are buying (to be able to decide on the best option), but also on technical details, installation (if applicable) and any other very specific or specialised details (whatever is applicable in the particular case). One can never really relax when hiring a proffessional, as there are heaps of people in every trade/profession who make this impossible. Sad, really. I think the attitude is quite wrong, quite often. Generally speaking, the right attitude would, imho, automatically steer the person in the right direction (eg. check the manual kind of thing, or measure twice, cut once) and therefore automatically increase the attention to detail. Time after time, I am bewildered to see the discrepancy between some official manuals / instructions / standard procedures and how things actually get implemented on site. Everything is so well documented, and then the documentation is in so many cases so well ignored. In many cases, the very basic things even an amateur can spot are done wrong. My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Help! Could my new concrete damage my house???? 6Jan 12, 2010 8:36 am Get them to cut in the jointing. I bet the additions were not even dowelled... Can someone else explain please I am late for work, ta! beejay Hi All - I had a concretor in after Christmas to extend my alfresco (an extra 3mx5m, making it 7mx5m), and run a path (1m wide) around the side and back of the house. The work has all been done directly against the house (touching directly on external walls or the alfresco section of the house's slab. I didn't think anything of it (as I wouldn't have known any better!), until today, when I had a rep from our builder at the house for another reason, and he saw the work done. He told me that the concretor should have used expansion joins between the house and the concrete. He said that if the conctrete path or alfresco extention moves or cracks, it can crack the house as well!!! A friend told me that if they use steel reinforcment in the work, then it doesn't matter... but now I just dont know! Builder rep suggested that if the concrete is cut a few inches out from the house, this will allow movement without damaging the house, so I guess that is an option... Can anyone please verify or elaborate on any of this? Will cutting the concrete work? Should the concretor have done this, or is it not necessary? If he should have done it, can I make him come back and do any rectification work? Where you are coming from is where you are going to... Re: Help! Could my new concrete damage my house???? 7Jan 12, 2010 8:50 am post a photo. I think the paths should be ok. As they can expand or shrink with no issues. They are not wide and not in between two structures. If they wrap around like a u shape around the house this will be bad. The in the alfresco has me thinking. Probably need a photo to understand where the forces on pressure will lie. Photos photos photos!!!! Re: Help! Could my new concrete damage my house???? 9Jan 12, 2010 2:10 pm Thanks Borg - Hopefully these pics will give you an idea what whats been done. 1st image is my house/yard plan. The yellow sections are the concrete that has just been done. The green is (going to be)grassed, and the sections on each side of the long pathway are just space, so the path does not actually touch any of the house at this section. The extention off the alfresco Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Where it joins the house Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ the join to the alfresco slab sifront side path from drive way, along side garage to join at alfresco extension. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Path down the centre of the side yard. Turns and runs along the back wall of the house, to a 4x3 slab at the end corner for shed. Thanks again for your help! Building with PD - Regent 23 in Point Cook WE'RE IN!!! Landscaping! Re: Help! Could my new concrete damage my house? Pix Added 12/01 10Jan 12, 2010 2:45 pm Not too sure whats others view are. But I am not so concerned about the expansion gap around the house. The concrete will eventually just have a jap if it moves away. The concern is that the path is long and narrow and they havent allowed any expansion there. There may be possible that in the future the concrete may lift up. I have seen this happen on concrete footpaths. On the corner near the grass with the two paths meet is where i suspect you will have problems. Re: Help! Could my new concrete damage my house? Pix Added 12/01 11Jan 12, 2010 8:07 pm There is absolutly no issue with the concrete against the house, the only issues i can see is they didnt clean the slag of the render and there could have been a control joint running parallel to house in alfresco area. As Onc. said as long as it is dowled in to pre existing concrete concrete only needs expansion foam if enclosed parallel on two sides or enclosed by two parallel sides and an apposing side (except crossovers which has to have foam abutting the driveway) The conc. path is at a guess 80mm thick, your slab on the rebate is 150mm with 3f11 t/m if by an act of god something does give it will be the 80mm of concrete not your slab Da Vinci Outdoor Living Architectural landscaping http://www.davincioutdoor.com Re: Help! Could my new concrete damage my house? Pix Added 12/01 12Jan 12, 2010 8:26 pm Yep... thank Davinci I had my hands full for most of the day Where you are coming from is where you are going to... Re: Help! Could my new concrete damage my house? Pix Added 12/01 13Jan 13, 2010 10:24 am Errrr, so, there is no issue with how they've laid the paths? Also, how can the OP be sure that they've dowelled the new concrete into the slab (or can he)? Sorry, just trying to understand these things ... My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Help! Could my new concrete damage my house? Pix Added 12/01 14Jan 13, 2010 11:29 am Now, you mean? Well you could ask ...if they say um what do you mean? Slap them Either way the issue is going to be how much the slab breaks up over time. It is heaps better to have the jointing cut and that is where the cracks will be. Where you are coming from is where you are going to... Re: Help! Could my new concrete damage my house? Pix Added 12/01 15Jan 14, 2010 11:21 pm Thanks everyone for your advice. When you refer to it being 'dowled', would that by any chance be the steel rods that were drilled and lodged into the side of the slab where the new concrete joins? If that is it, then yes that was done. In regards to the slurry on the render... I am pretty pi$$ed off about that, but not sure what I can do. Can it be cleaned off? Or do you think I will need to repaint? If it can be cleaned, then thats fine, but if I have to repaint, I will discuss with the concretor... Building with PD - Regent 23 in Point Cook WE'RE IN!!! Landscaping! Re: Help! Could my new concrete damage my house? Pix Added 12/01 16Jan 14, 2010 11:37 pm Glad it is dowelled Give the splatter a rub and it will dust off, then wash with a bannister brush like doing your teeth while washing with water. Where you are coming from is where you are going to... I thought this would be a popular question but I haven't been able to find any similar posts. Perhaps I'm wording my searches wrong? When you have car insurance and the… 0 6619 there was an event. The question is whether the builder had the insurance and whether the event was covered. The workmanship is a separate conversation. 10 23755 DIY, Home Maintenance & Repair The workmanship is lifetime guarantee by "the insurer", not the builder. They will of course ask the initial builder to rectify and if they don't they will appoint… 7 5060 |