Browse Forums Paving & Concreting 1 Jan 22, 2021 5:05 pm My concrete driveway was poured yesterday and within a couple of hours I noticed some hairline cracks throughout the driveway. After one day it looks to be much more noticeable. The concrete company inspected it this morning and are doing an investigation, but said the mix was correct measurements etc and that it's shrinkage cracks and not structural. The concreter also said it was shrinkage cracks and that everything was done correctly, and that the only way to deal with it is to put a sealer over the driveway. He does seem like an honest guy and I'm taking his word for it, but thought I should check to confirm. Has anyone else had the same issue immediately after pouring? I asked the concrete company if it should be replaced and they said no, since it's minor cracking and not affecting the structure. This is brand new and I paid a lot of money to get this done, so I want it done properly. Is the sealer a suitable solution, or just a workaround to cover an error? Day 1Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Day 1Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Day 2Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ ? Re: Surface cracks immediately in new concrete driveway 2Jan 22, 2021 5:28 pm From your shadow it looks like you took those photos from a standing position? It may not be affecting the overall structural integrity but it looks like ****. Was it really hot at your place yesterday? Re: Surface cracks immediately in new concrete driveway 3Jan 22, 2021 5:45 pm Althom From your shadow it looks like you took those photos from a standing position? It may not be affecting the overall structural integrity but it looks like ****. Was it really hot at your place yesterday? I was standing while taking the photos. It wasn't too hot when it was poured. It probably reached 28-30C maximum yesterday. It does look terrible which is why I'm not happy with it. Just not sure of my options other than what they tell me. I just want to make sure it's accurate and not because it's more work and loss of $ to them by rectifying it. Re: Surface cracks immediately in new concrete driveway 4Jan 22, 2021 8:06 pm Yes they are Shrinkage cracks did they specify the mix and check the Slump? How long did it take them to lay the concrete? Did the driver add extra water to the mix? It would have been wise to have it properly specified & inspected during the pour and take a video. Concrete needs to be poured and worked in a short period of time by experts It appears amateurs did your job or something is wrong with the mix Cheers Chris Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Surface cracks immediately in new concrete driveway 5Jan 22, 2021 8:39 pm When did they cut the control cuts? Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Surface cracks immediately in new concrete driveway 6Jan 22, 2021 9:55 pm StructuralBIMGuy Yes they are Shrinkage cracks did they specify the mix and check the Slump? How long did it take them to lay the concrete? Did the driver add extra water to the mix? It would have been wise to have it properly specified & inspected during the pour and take a video. Concrete needs to be poured and worked in a short period of time by experts It appears amateurs did your job or something is wrong with the mix Cheers Chris These all seem like good questions, but I do not know as I wasn't there when all that happened. And on top of that I wouldn't know what was what. I trust them with what they do. I personally think it's something to do with the mix, as the first truck pour seems fine, it's just where the second truck poured that looks to be where the cracks are. Is the sealer the solution from here? Or should they rip it out and do it again? Re: Surface cracks immediately in new concrete driveway 8Jan 22, 2021 11:22 pm The cuts should be done asap. Normally the next morning. Your cracks were already there on the day of the pour so any control cuts would simply have helped prevent the existing cracks opening more but the damage was already there. There are a number of possible causes but the majority of them relate to the placement. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Surface cracks immediately in new concrete driveway 9Jan 22, 2021 11:51 pm You should ask for the delivery dockets for the concrete. The drivers have to note how much water was added to the mix. If it was going to be a warm day my first guess would be that the concreter has asked for water to be added. It makes his job easier but leads to cracking. The other option to cutting control joints is tooling them during placement. It is the best way to prevent shrinkage cracks but not everyone likes the look. Cutting the next morning is fine as long as the placement is done correctly. Cutting 3 days later is poor workmanship. Any cracks will already have happened by that time. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Surface cracks immediately in new concrete driveway 10Jan 23, 2021 12:58 am Control joints don't prevent shrinkage, they localise and control them. No amount of control joints would've fixed or prevented this at all. I think, and am quite certain that these shrinkage cracks are due to a lack of water if anything, in contrary to what others are saying here. There's no way excess water would cause these on day 2 absolutely no way, it's very clearly dried out. Your issue is that there wasn't enough water in the mix on the hot day. Moreover, if there was no plastic/vapour barrier beneath the slab, the ground would've sucked absolutely all of the moisture out of the slab - this is what I think most likely happened. Concreter could've soaked the ground prior to placement to prevent this. I'm very shocked at the reasons some here have listed, really makes me wonder. Re: Surface cracks immediately in new concrete driveway 11Jan 23, 2021 2:26 am moudzj Control joints don't prevent shrinkage, they localise and control them. No amount of control joints would've fixed or prevented this at all. I think, and am quite certain that these shrinkage cracks are due to a lack of water if anything, in contrary to what others are saying here. There's no way excess water would cause these on day 2 absolutely no way, it's very clearly dried out. Your issue is that there wasn't enough water in the mix on the hot day. Moreover, if there was no plastic/vapour barrier beneath the slab, the ground would've sucked absolutely all of the moisture out of the slab - this is what I think most likely happened. Concreter could've soaked the ground prior to placement to prevent this. I'm very shocked at the reasons some here have listed, really makes me wonder. I'm shocked you don't know that excess water in the mix is one of the prime causes of shrinkage cracks. And yes control joints were never going to save this job as the cracks were already there as I also said. They are called control joints for a reason and cutting them 3 days later is absolutely useless as hairline cracks will have already formed and would continue to open over time. As the cracks were there immediately after finishing there are a number of possibilities. Grano workers much prefer a wet mix over a dry stiff mix because it is easier to work with particularly if it's going to be hot hence the reason it's the most logical basis for the problems the OP is showing. Really there are any number of reasons for the issue's seen here. Failing to wet down the sub-base is one. Heat and wind drying the concrete too rapidly is another. Working the concrete to early is another and all of this can be exacerbated by to much water in the mix. The below article explains what some of the issues could be but unless you see the delivery dockets for the concrete and actually saw the placement and conditions we are all just basically guessing. Having worked with Grano workers I know where I'd put my money. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Surface cracks immediately in new concrete driveway 12Jan 23, 2021 2:38 am chippy moudzj Control joints don't prevent shrinkage, they localise and control them. No amount of control joints would've fixed or prevented this at all. I think, and am quite certain that these shrinkage cracks are due to a lack of water if anything, in contrary to what others are saying here. There's no way excess water would cause these on day 2 absolutely no way, it's very clearly dried out. Your issue is that there wasn't enough water in the mix on the hot day. Moreover, if there was no plastic/vapour barrier beneath the slab, the ground would've sucked absolutely all of the moisture out of the slab - this is what I think most likely happened. Concreter could've soaked the ground prior to placement to prevent this. I'm very shocked at the reasons some here have listed, really makes me wonder. I'm shocked you don't know that excess water in the mix is one of the prime causes of shrinkage cracks. And yes control joints were never going to save this job as the cracks were already there as I also said. They are called control joints for a reason and cutting them 3 days later is absolutely useless as hairline cracks will have already formed and would continue to open over time. As the cracks were there immediately after finishing there are a number of possibilities. Grano workers much prefer a wet mix over a dry stiff mix because it is easier to work with particularly if it's going to be hot hence the reason it's the most logical basis for the problems the OP is showing. Really there are any number of reasons for the issue's seen here. Failing to wet down the sub-base is one. Heat and wind drying the concrete too rapidly is another. Working the concrete to early is another and all of this can be exacerbated by to much water in the mix. The below article explains what some of the issues could be but unless you see the delivery dockets for the concrete and actually saw the placement and conditions we are all just basically guessing. Having worked with Grano workers I know where I'd put my money. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Its easy to pick a piece off google, mate. Excess water might be the primary cause in your world, and in the article you hand picked, but not in actuality. Google more, you might learn something, this time try drying shrinkage. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Stick to what you know pal. Only a fool would attribute cracking on the same hot day to excess water. Re: Surface cracks immediately in new concrete driveway 13Jan 23, 2021 10:13 am LOL, 30 degs a hot day..try living in perth mate, i dont go on holidays in summer Concrete pours don't stop because some guy says its hot That is correct everyone is only guessing as to what took place during the pour Unfortunately, the owner wasn't prepared, moudzj words are cheap during a concrete pour, action is what's required. Stop the Pour Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Surface cracks immediately in new concrete driveway 14Jan 23, 2021 11:02 am Heeper Althom From your shadow it looks like you took those photos from a standing position? It may not be affecting the overall structural integrity but it looks like ****. Was it really hot at your place yesterday? I was standing while taking the photos. It wasn't too hot when it was poured. It probably reached 28-30C maximum yesterday. It does look terrible which is why I'm not happy with it. Just not sure of my options other than what they tell me. I just want to make sure it's accurate and not because it's more work and loss of $ to them by rectifying it. So they're not exactly hairline are they? If you can notice a difference between batches then it's pretty obvious that it's something to do with the batches. If, for instance, it was loss of water into the ground below the slab then the entire slab would have the issue. Re: Surface cracks immediately in new concrete driveway 15Jan 23, 2021 11:14 am chippy You should ask for the delivery dockets for the concrete. The drivers have to note how much water was added to the mix. If it was going to be a warm day my first guess would be that the concreter has asked for water to be added. It makes his job easier but leads to cracking. The other option to cutting control joints is tooling them during placement. It is the best way to prevent shrinkage cracks but not everyone likes the look. Cutting the next morning is fine as long as the placement is done correctly. Cutting 3 days later is poor workmanship. Any cracks will already have happened by that time. This is what I think happened. Water was added when the truck arrived. I'm not sure if it was requested by the driver or done by concreter. It was cut ~24 hours after it was poured, not 3 days. What's done is done unfortunately. I was wondering if I could ask them to redo it at their cost or whether the sealer is sufficient to hide the cracks like they said. Re: Surface cracks immediately in new concrete driveway 16Jan 23, 2021 11:16 am moudzj chippy moudzj Control joints don't prevent shrinkage, they localise and control them. No amount of control joints would've fixed or prevented this at all. I think, and am quite certain that these shrinkage cracks are due to a lack of water if anything, in contrary to what others are saying here. There's no way excess water would cause these on day 2 absolutely no way, it's very clearly dried out. Your issue is that there wasn't enough water in the mix on the hot day. Moreover, if there was no plastic/vapour barrier beneath the slab, the ground would've sucked absolutely all of the moisture out of the slab - this is what I think most likely happened. Concreter could've soaked the ground prior to placement to prevent this. I'm very shocked at the reasons some here have listed, really makes me wonder. I'm shocked you don't know that excess water in the mix is one of the prime causes of shrinkage cracks. And yes control joints were never going to save this job as the cracks were already there as I also said. They are called control joints for a reason and cutting them 3 days later is absolutely useless as hairline cracks will have already formed and would continue to open over time. As the cracks were there immediately after finishing there are a number of possibilities. Grano workers much prefer a wet mix over a dry stiff mix because it is easier to work with particularly if it's going to be hot hence the reason it's the most logical basis for the problems the OP is showing. Really there are any number of reasons for the issue's seen here. Failing to wet down the sub-base is one. Heat and wind drying the concrete too rapidly is another. Working the concrete to early is another and all of this can be exacerbated by to much water in the mix. The below article explains what some of the issues could be but unless you see the delivery dockets for the concrete and actually saw the placement and conditions we are all just basically guessing. Having worked with Grano workers I know where I'd put my money. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Its easy to pick a piece off google, mate. Excess water might be the primary cause in your world, and in the article you hand picked, but not in actuality. Google more, you might learn something, this time try drying shrinkage. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Stick to what you know pal. Only a fool would attribute cracking on the same hot day to excess water. Just for clarity moudzj here is the conclusion of your Holcim article. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ There are a number of reasons cracks occur. Whatever the reason I certainly wouldn't be happy with that job and the builders I work with would be having that concrete pulled out and redone. It will only get worse. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Surface cracks immediately in new concrete driveway 17Jan 23, 2021 11:35 am Heeper . I was wondering if I could ask them to redo it at their cost or whether the sealer is sufficient to hide the cracks like they said. There is no mechanism to seek affordable justice such as in other states...Lobby your politicians for a independent building commission Adding water reduces the concrete strength, those cracks will get worse over time, etc, etc. The Sealer just makes the cracking less noticeable when it rains /drys. with time the sealer goes blotchy, fades, deteriorates etc. Not a welcoming reminder as you pull into your expensive driveway. Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Surface cracks immediately in new concrete driveway 18Jan 23, 2021 12:45 pm StructuralBIMGuy Heeper . I was wondering if I could ask them to redo it at their cost or whether the sealer is sufficient to hide the cracks like they said. There is no mechanism to seek affordable justice such as in other states...Lobby your politicians for a independent building commission Adding water reduces the concrete strength, those cracks will get worse over time, etc, etc. The Sealer just makes the cracking less noticeable when it rains /drys. with time the sealer goes blotchy, fades, deteriorates etc. Not a welcoming reminder as you pull into your expensive driveway. Thanks mate, and everyone else that replied. So I will attempt to get it redone first. Annoying. Re: Surface cracks immediately in new concrete driveway 19Jan 23, 2021 12:47 pm chippy Just for clarity moudzj here is the conclusion of your Holcim article. There are a number of reasons cracks occur. Whatever the reason I certainly wouldn't be happy with that job and the builders I work with would be having that concrete pulled out and redone. It will only get worse. Not the conclusion, a summary. Please read the point above the one you circled - again, you conveniently hand pick a sentences to suit you. OP: Chris hit the nail on the head re sealer, it really wont do you any good in the long term, and wont hide the patching theyd have to do to cover the cracks. Maybe some resurfacing, or stenciling? Re: Surface cracks immediately in new concrete driveway 20Feb 17, 2021 7:01 pm This is always a common problem I hear in the industry, but both parties will always point the finger at each other. Concrete Plant will blame the installer and vice versa. A lot of these cases end up in Fair Trading but never get resolved as it is very difficult to lay blame either way unless you have full documented evidence from manufacture to pour to finish including weather accurate reports and also the depth of the rio in the cement which is also a factor. How have you progressed with the situation ? It will be neat but you won't have much freeboard. At least they are not weep holes. Are you in a high intensity rainfall region? The regulatory slope is only required… 3 5254 You can wash over existing pavers with 10% solution of water and hydrochloric acid, then wash off. The acid will provide for required bond key with new concrete. 1 32173 |