Browse Forums Bathrooms and Laundry 1 Jun 15, 2012 10:11 am About to have my shower/bathroom floor ripped up and retiled. How much of a fall should there be to allow the water to drain? My current shower screen is a framed one. Does the frame created a kind of hob for the shower? Is this something I should consider if I went frameless? Or should I keep a framed screen to keep the water in? Re: shower floor fall 2Jun 15, 2012 11:29 am All the bathrooms I've redone over the years we have put in two floor wastes - one in the centre of the shower ( or up against one wall if you are using one of the newer channel type of waste ) and another in the centre of the room. The only change to this is installing just one in the shower and draining the whole bathroom to it but usually with no shower glass. The average bathroom we used to try for 20mm fall to the waste but this depends also on the size of your tiles and whether you would accept split tiles around the waste to get that size of fall. Stewie Re: shower floor fall 3Jun 15, 2012 6:20 pm You can do it with only one long strip waste if you want. Have the bathroom floor fall in 1 direction only towards the shower and then have the strip drain where ever you want in the shower. Cutting Edge Kitchens and Cabinet Making http://cuttingedgekitchens.net.au http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cutting-Edge-Kitchens/290484196676 Mobile : 0419 430 575 PH: 9452 4772 Fax :9452 4772 cuttingedgekitchens@outlook.com Re: shower floor fall 4Jun 15, 2012 8:40 pm Framed or frameless shower screen won't really matter, you will still need the same fall to your waste. You only need about 1 deg fall in your shower floor, which is about 17mm / m. So in a 900x900 shower, if the waste is in the middle you need no more than 10mm from the wall to the waste. Any more and your tiles will need to be cut or they won't sit well. Regardless of what you do, if you have anything bigger than 200x200 tiles on the floor, lay them at 45deg to the waste. As for the main floor, people mistakenly believe the grate in the floor is a drain that water flows too. It's simply a clean out trap that your bath, basins, and shower run into, and there's no requirement for water on the floor to run into it. Re: shower floor fall 5Jun 16, 2012 5:53 pm mgilla Regardless of what you do, if you have anything bigger than 200x200 tiles on the floor, lay them at 45deg to the waste. As for the main floor, people mistakenly believe the grate in the floor is a drain that water flows too. It's simply a clean out trap that your bath, basins, and shower run into, and there's no requirement for water on the floor to run into it. I dont agree. A good tiler can lay larger tiles in line with the waste no problems. I have just had 3 bathrooms tiles with 300x300 floor tiles and square smart wastes. The run in the same line and work perfectly! I am not sure about your second statement either. When I put water on my bathroom floor it runs towards the centre drain. Sure its a clean out trap but the water should also fall into it! If it doesnt then the tiler has done a poor job! Cutting Edge Kitchens and Cabinet Making http://cuttingedgekitchens.net.au http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cutting-Edge-Kitchens/290484196676 Mobile : 0419 430 575 PH: 9452 4772 Fax :9452 4772 cuttingedgekitchens@outlook.com Re: shower floor fall 6Jun 17, 2012 3:24 pm CuttingEdgeKitchens mgilla Regardless of what you do, if you have anything bigger than 200x200 tiles on the floor, lay them at 45deg to the waste. As for the main floor, people mistakenly believe the grate in the floor is a drain that water flows too. It's simply a clean out trap that your bath, basins, and shower run into, and there's no requirement for water on the floor to run into it. I dont agree. A good tiler can lay larger tiles in line with the waste no problems. I have just had 3 bathrooms tiles with 300x300 floor tiles and square smart wastes. The run in the same line and work perfectly! Yes you can lay them square to the wall, my reason for saying not too is from years in home maintenance and the number of showers I have seen that hold water or have big lips between the tiles. The tiler can opt for minimal fall then you have the holding water problem. Or to get enough fall you have the lipping problem. It's nothing to do with the quality of the tiler it's just how it is. Also by laying them square, if you want the joints to line up as most would. The setout of your bathroom floor is dictated by your shower waste. I am not sure about your second statement either. When I put water on my bathroom floor it runs towards the centre drain. Sure its a clean out trap but the water should also fall into it! If it doesnt then the tiler has done a poor job! As for the trap in the main floor, put the plug in your bath, turn the taps on and go to the shops for an hour. Unless you have enough fall in your floor to get the water to the trap (enough fall is when you walk in and feel your walking down hill) the majority of the water will be flowing down the hallway. Re: shower floor fall 7Jun 18, 2012 6:52 am mgilla CuttingEdgeKitchens mgilla Regardless of what you do, if you have anything bigger than 200x200 tiles on the floor, lay them at 45deg to the waste. As for the main floor, people mistakenly believe the grate in the floor is a drain that water flows too. It's simply a clean out trap that your bath, basins, and shower run into, and there's no requirement for water on the floor to run into it. I dont agree. A good tiler can lay larger tiles in line with the waste no problems. I have just had 3 bathrooms tiles with 300x300 floor tiles and square smart wastes. The run in the same line and work perfectly! Yes you can lay them square to the wall, my reason for saying not too is from years in home maintenance and the number of showers I have seen that hold water or have big lips between the tiles. The tiler can opt for minimal fall then you have the holding water problem. Or to get enough fall you have the lipping problem. It's nothing to do with the quality of the tiler it's just how it is. Also by laying them square, if you want the joints to line up as most would. The setout of your bathroom floor is dictated by your shower waste. I am not sure about your second statement either. When I put water on my bathroom floor it runs towards the centre drain. Sure its a clean out trap but the water should also fall into it! If it doesnt then the tiler has done a poor job! As for the trap in the main floor, put the plug in your bath, turn the taps on and go to the shops for an hour. Unless you have enough fall in your floor to get the water to the trap (enough fall is when you walk in and feel your walking down hill) the majority of the water will be flowing down the hallway. It is all about the tiler mate. A poor tiler wont be able to get the fall in a shower with 300x300 tiles. My tiler is easily able to do this with 300x300 tiles and no they are no lippy at all. I stand in my shower and never have a problem. Again I dont agree with your last statement. A good tiler will be able to get the falls in a bathroom to cope with most of the water from a bath! I have a freestanding bath in a 4m x 4m room and my 4 year old has actually put it to the test. We got bugger all water ou the door!!! We have 300x300 tiles, they are not lippy and you dont "feel your walking down hill"!!! My tiler spends hours doing his beds with a laser level and screed. It took him 4-5hours to put the bed in our main bathroom. He tiles 60sqm downstairs for us using 600x600 tiles and when I put the kitchen in the floors were deed level. Not even 1mm out. That is how acurate he is!!! If you get a bad tiler then I agree with your statements but I good tiler doesnt have those problems! Cutting Edge Kitchens and Cabinet Making http://cuttingedgekitchens.net.au http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cutting-Edge-Kitchens/290484196676 Mobile : 0419 430 575 PH: 9452 4772 Fax :9452 4772 cuttingedgekitchens@outlook.com Re: shower floor fall 8Jun 18, 2012 7:29 am CEK with a 4mx4m bathroom I imagine your your shower is bigger than the standard 900x900 the majority of showers are. If this is the case than yes you will get away with it, I should have been more specific and am basing my opinion on bathrooms that are less than half the size of yours. This is nothing to do with the quality of the tiler it's just a simple case of square peg round hole effect. The fact you have a 4mx4m bathroom means you can put fall to the trap and just by the shear size of the catchment area most will go down. When you get a 3mx2m bathroom or smaller, which in my experience the majority of bathrooms are in new houses, with a fitted bath a shower and a vanity it doesn't leave much area to catch water and the majority will flow out the door if the bath overflows. Unless of cause ( as I said above) your bathroom floor feels like you are walking down hill. Oh and with your perfectly level kitchen floor, unless your tiler leveled the floor before he laid the tiles you can put that down to the concreters. Any goose can lay tiles flat on a flat slab. I've been almost 35 years in the building industry, the last 15 i've spent in maintenance, I don't tell people to lay there 300x300 tiles on a 45 in there shower just for the hell of it. Re: shower floor fall 9Jun 18, 2012 6:17 pm mgilla Oh and with your perfectly level kitchen floor, unless your tiler leveled the floor before he laid the tiles you can put that down to the concreters. Any goose can lay tiles flat on a flat slab. . Now your totally wrong!!! You cannot lay 600x600 tiles directly onto a slab with any success. They will be very lippy and look terriable. Speak to any good tiler and he will laugh at you if you say you want to lay directly onto a slab! No slab over 60sqm is even close to level! A slab within 20mm of level over this distance is normal. And yes my tiler put down first.( read my last post) He spent the better part of a day laying a bed using a laser level. I have a feeling that the tilers you are used to do things differently( read badly) compared to mine! Cutting Edge Kitchens and Cabinet Making http://cuttingedgekitchens.net.au http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cutting-Edge-Kitchens/290484196676 Mobile : 0419 430 575 PH: 9452 4772 Fax :9452 4772 cuttingedgekitchens@outlook.com Re: shower floor fall 10Jun 18, 2012 7:01 pm CuttingEdgeKitchens mgilla Oh and with your perfectly level kitchen floor, unless your tiler leveled the floor before he laid the tiles you can put that down to the concreters. Any goose can lay tiles flat on a flat slab. . Now your totally wrong!!! You cannot lay 600x600 tiles directly onto a slab with any success. They will be very lippy and look terriable. Speak to any good tiler and he will laugh at you if you say you want to lay directly onto a slab! No slab over 60sqm is even close to level! A slab within 20mm of level over this distance is normal. And yes my tiler put down first.( read my last post) He spent the better part of a day laying a bed using a laser level. I have a feeling that the tilers you are used to do things differently( read badly) compared to mine! Sorry I couldn't be bothered getting into a pi$$ing contest about how good your tiler is. Re: shower floor fall 11Jun 18, 2012 8:34 pm CuttingEdgeKitchens mgilla Regardless of what you do, if you have anything bigger than 200x200 tiles on the floor, lay them at 45deg to the waste. As for the main floor, people mistakenly believe the grate in the floor is a drain that water flows too. It's simply a clean out trap that your bath, basins, and shower run into, and there's no requirement for water on the floor to run into it. I dont agree. A good tiler can lay larger tiles in line with the waste no problems. I have just had 3 bathrooms tiles with 300x300 floor tiles and square smart wastes. The run in the same line and work perfectly! I'm constantly amazed I keep hearing about smaller tiles being easier to lay, and are necessary for correct fall. I've seen so many poorly laid small tiles, and the effect is terrible, and the fall is no better; when we bought the house, they had 200 x 200, and still had water pooling in parts. We now have, as the smallest tile, 300 x 600; in our en suite it's 600 x 600, everything is laid square to the walls. As for CEK, the floor was carefully screed after laying the heating cables, so fall isn't a problem. Re: shower floor fall 12Jun 19, 2012 7:20 am mgilla CuttingEdgeKitchens mgilla Oh and with your perfectly level kitchen floor, unless your tiler leveled the floor before he laid the tiles you can put that down to the concreters. Any goose can lay tiles flat on a flat slab. . Now your totally wrong!!! You cannot lay 600x600 tiles directly onto a slab with any success. They will be very lippy and look terriable. Speak to any good tiler and he will laugh at you if you say you want to lay directly onto a slab! No slab over 60sqm is even close to level! A slab within 20mm of level over this distance is normal. And yes my tiler put down first.( read my last post) He spent the better part of a day laying a bed using a laser level. I have a feeling that the tilers you are used to do things differently( read badly) compared to mine! Sorry I couldn't be bothered getting into a pi$$ing contest about how good your tiler is. Nothing to do with how good my tiler is. I just dont want the wrong advice being put up here. There are different ways of doing things and people need to hear both sides of it. Like you I have over 30years experience in the industry, own my buisness all working on multi million dollar homes. Cutting Edge Kitchens and Cabinet Making http://cuttingedgekitchens.net.au http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cutting-Edge-Kitchens/290484196676 Mobile : 0419 430 575 PH: 9452 4772 Fax :9452 4772 cuttingedgekitchens@outlook.com Re: shower floor fall 13Jun 19, 2012 7:21 am PHL We now have, as the smallest tile, 300 x 600; in our en suite it's 600 x 600, everything is laid square to the walls. As for CEK, the floor was carefully screed after laying the heating cables, so fall isn't a problem. Exactly and thats the way it should be done. A propper bed is a must and alot of tilers have no idea how to do it properly. Alot of tiles wont do 600x600 in bathrooms, but thats because they dont have enough experience. It is possible if you know what your doing. Cutting Edge Kitchens and Cabinet Making http://cuttingedgekitchens.net.au http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cutting-Edge-Kitchens/290484196676 Mobile : 0419 430 575 PH: 9452 4772 Fax :9452 4772 cuttingedgekitchens@outlook.com Re: shower floor fall 14Jun 19, 2012 12:35 pm CEK you are right, there is more than 1 way to do things. I gave advice based on years of seeing showers that either held water or the tiles were lippy. Yes the holding water is the tilers fault, but this generaly comes about because the tiler has limited area to get fall to the waste, and, try to get the tiles to sit even. At the end of the day I was purely offering my opinion to the OP based on my experience. Whether they want to accept it is entirely up to them. Maybe they can get your tilers name and have them come do the job. Re: shower floor fall 15Jun 20, 2012 6:58 pm CuttingEdgeKitchens Again I dont agree with your last statement. A good tiler will be able to get the falls in a bathroom to cope with most of the water from a bath! I have a freestanding bath in a 4m x 4m room and my 4 year old has actually put it to the test. We got bugger all water ou the door!!! We have 300x300 tiles, they are not lippy and you dont "feel your walking down hill"!!! His original statement on the matter is quite true. The drain is not there to cope with water overflow etc and there is no requirement to slope the tiles into that drain. Of course that doesn't mean you cannot do so. Re: shower floor fall 16Jun 25, 2012 11:55 am Just one quick note. You will find your frameless shower screen will never seal as well as your old framed one. Just one of the drawbacks. We always design a 10mm-12mm step down(tile thickness) just below where the screen sits to try reduce the amount of water that does make it way out. Cheers Re: shower floor fall 17Jun 25, 2012 1:07 pm I'll go back to the original op, in case they didn't get their answer about fall There is no hard and fast rule. No standard fall other than water must not pond. This from BCA Explanatory information: 1. The ratio of fall achieved in a floor may vary depending on the following: (a) The finished height requirements at doorways. (b) The height of fixtures or fittings. (c) The dimensions of the tiles used (adequate falls become more difficult to achieve as the size of the tiles used increases). (d) The area of the floor to be drained. (e) The requirements of people with disabilities. 2. The recommended ratio of fall within showers is between 1:60 and 1:80. 3. The recommended ratio of fall in other areas is between 1:80 and 1:100. 4. In some cases the fall in the floor finishes in the same area may vary. 5. Where falls steeper than 1:100 are not achievable, the effectiveness of the floor drainage should be confirmed to ensure that water does not remain on the finished floor in a manner that can adversely affect the health or amenity of the building occupants or deteriorate building elements. Landscape Design & Construction http://cherub.squarespace.com/ Thank you Splashers. Tomorrow I might check if I can get a few packs of 300x300 in the same tile finish. It may be good to use these could in the shower recesses. I'm not… 4 4670 I've got a challenge here. Background is the builder has cut too deep for the slab and the slab is now below the very substantial retaining wall. It's failed occupancy… 0 18371 CDC Housing Code 3 When to apply Floor Area external face of wall vs Gross Floor Area internal face of wall. Reading thru CDC Housing Code 3, lets take a lot 915sqm.… 0 16413 |