Bathrooms and Laundry
Jul 14, 2011 12:01 pm
We have a leak in our ensuite shower and it is to do with inadequate waterproofing at the base of the shower (or it could potentially be in the waterproofing of the walls - wonder if there is a way of knowing - the leak itself is presenting at the join of the floor and wall tiles).... anyway......
We are in the middle of battling to have it rectified. I have been advised that all the tiles need to be ripped up (and all the boards because we can see from under the house they are damaged) and then the waterproofing all re done, and the tiles relaid.
But I am wondering... does this also mean that the wall tiles need to be come off? Is it possible to get floor tiles up without having to remove the wall tiles - esp the ones at the bottom of the wall that butt up against the floor tiles? And even if it is possible to do so, given that the waterproofing needs to be re-done, would this mean wall tiles HAVE to come off so that the waterproofing can go up the walls slightly? Or given that it is just the waterproofing on the floor that is the issue, is it OK to just waterproof the floor and not have any 'lip' up the walls (If I am making any sense?).
I am worried that if the builder tries to get away with just removing the floor tiles, that the waterproofing will still have a gap or a crack along the edging and allow water back through - I thought that it should be one continuous 'seal' that goes up the wall slightly.
And, if wall tiles do have to come off - would this then mean he can just remove the bottom layer or does the entire wall(s) have to come off? (Not sure what is possible when dealing with removing/fixing behind tiles).
It looks like the builder is responsible to fix this, but I am just wondering what level of repair work we should be expecting and trying to ensure he doesn't cut corners (ie, by only ripping up the floor if it requires more than that).
And... not that this is my motivation for asking (my motivation is as I said above, trying to be informed so that we can monitor any work being done is done properly and thoroughly)... but.... if he does have to rip off all tiles, we were thinking of taking the opportunity of buying a different tile to have relaid. Would that be possible do you think? (Or paying for any price difference). And also there is no where in the shower to put shampoo/soap etc so we have to hang a daggy shower caddy over the side of the screen - we would also like to take the opportunity to put a recess in the shower wall (at our expense). Not sure if this might be pushing it but if all tiles are off, perfect opportunity.
Re: Ripping up bathroom tiles to redo watrproofing - questio2
Jul 14, 2011 1:38 pm
Yeah I think to redo the shower, you'd have to replace the whole wall (villa board). not just the tiles.
I think if you want to do all that extra work, get a quote to fix the leaks (without all your other wants) and then ask for that amout in compo rather than them doing it themselves, and get your own tiler you trust to do the work with their cheque, and your top up to cover the extra things. I think your builder will be happy with this as they will then say "you" have to guarantee the work, not them, if it happens again because they weren't involved with the repair. They will probably get you to sign a waiver or something.
I don't think there is a waterproof problem as such. waterproofing is to stop water going from tiles (thru grout) into walls. But you can see the leak, so maybe it's not actually penetrating the waterproofing, which is why you can see it. It's probably a poor tile job, perhaps the grout was inappropriate for the job.
I'd get a written quote to fix their error, with an explanation from the person quoting as to what the actual cause of the damage is and send it to the builder suggesting compensation, rather than them fix it.
A thankful person is a happy person.
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Re: Ripping up bathroom tiles to redo watrproofing - questio3
Jul 14, 2011 4:00 pm
Thanks annietom, I appreciate the reply.
That could be an idea - getting compensation as opposed to them doing it. Only thing that worries me is that they will get someone to issue a 'cheap' quote knowing that we then plan to use our own builder/tiler and then they only have to compensate maybe half of what the job would cost in reality if we used anyone else (Or along those lines). But it is certainly an idea and something we might toy with - it would mean we could muck around with it more ourselves which we would love to do if we had the chance.
I'm a complete novice, but not sure why you think it's not a waterproofing issue. We can see the leak because it is coming up through the floor grouting - but it is coming up outside of the shower base area. And, the boards under the tiles are all wet - we can see this from under the house. Surely that has to do with waterproofing not grouting? But like I said, I'm still learning and don't fully yet grasp it all.
Thanks again for your help and the referral to other site. Will check it out.
Re: Ripping up bathroom tiles to redo watrproofing - questio4
Jul 14, 2011 5:15 pm
I agree - get the compo - ask them for 3 quotes and maybe settle in the middle.
It is a big yucky job taking down tiles and putting up new board and waterproofing etc (we ripped out the entire bathroom in our old place - was hell!)
In my opinion I would do the entire thing - that way you can be sure that it is all fixed and you won't have to go through it all again to repair just the walls next time. For that little bit extra work/money now you will have the peace of mind that you're pretty safe you won't have to do it again!
Moved into our Atlantique MkII 36 by Carlisle Homes
Re: Ripping up bathroom tiles to redo watrproofing - questio5
Jul 15, 2011 12:30 pm
You should be able to fix the problem by lifting the floor tiles and bottom row of wall tiles. A proper membrane system should be installed over c.f.c.
Re: Ripping up bathroom tiles to redo watrproofing - questio7
Jul 16, 2011 10:06 pm
Thanks Darren - if he plans to try and only rip off the bottom row of wall tiles, we will most definitely be taking the opportunity to check the waterproofing. I'm sure I've already asked this somewhere along the line, but what do we look for... is it the blue coat of waterproofing that we should see all up the wall (Or under the removed tiles, at least).
If he rips off the tiles, will this damage/compromise the waterproofing on the walls?
Also... I asked once before about removing tiles from plaster because before we actually had this issue, we were thinking of changing some things around in the ensuite, and I got the response that removing tiles from plasterboard was almost impossible without damaging the plasterboard and hence having to repair or replace the plasterboard also. Is this still the consensus?
As for the compo, we have decided against this option. Was speaking to DH and he has a point, although someone might come and give a quote (and we might accept the monetary value), once the tiles are up and the full extent of the damage is visible, it might be more than anticipated (esp if the board damage extends into the adjoining rooms) and we don't want to sign off on the job and then have the builder/tiler/whoever say "oops, actually it's going to cost more than we expected". So no, we don't want any surprises - AND, we also don't want to be liable for any future possible damage if it's not done correctly - again.
Re: Ripping up bathroom tiles to redo watrproofing - questio8
Jul 17, 2011 12:24 pm
Hi yep, there are a few different water proof systems, that greeny/ blue one seems popular at the moment, you should be able to see something other than cement board and tile adhesive, ideally a membrane tray lapped over with wall membrane.
Since your having leaks though, you may see that 'white paint' stuff they used to use ( sorry dont know name)
I have taken countless tiles of walls, whilst working for a kitchen Reno mob. I can tell you it will go one of two ways, you will pop them off in one piece with little damage to tile or wall, or you will end up with massive holes in gyproc.
I have found the difference is whether the walls were painted before being tiled then your lucky! Best tool is a wide scraper, I like those 7 in one tools.
You want to go at a really shallow angle and tap tap tap. If it's not going your way, it's quicker and easier to cut perimeter and remove gyproc and tiles in 'panels'
Just thank your stars it's not on render!
Re: Ripping up bathroom tiles to redo watrproofing - questio9
Jul 17, 2011 4:12 pm
We aren't actually going to be doing the job... or should I say... we aren't going to be paying for it. So they can hack away all they like and do as much damage as they do - all I know is, they have to rebuild it and get it back to original 'as new' condition when it's finished.
I was enquiring about what might be involved because we are toying with the idea of possibly changing wall tiles, but only if they had to rip them down to begin with (I wasn't sure if it was possible to just remove a row of tiles as such). As you said though, it seems he should be able to get away with only ripping off the bottom layer so at least we know not to bother about that option. We are however looking at swapping the floor tiles because essentially he does have to rip all of those up.
Hopefully the tiler/builder - whoever he is - will be able to inform us that the wall waterproofing is correct when the bottom tiles come off.
Re: Ripping up bathroom tiles to redo watrproofing - questio11
Aug 07, 2011 6:47 am
I think you can rest assured there is no waterproofing membrane
Or it wouldn't be leaking
Where you are coming from is where you are going to...
Re: Ripping up bathroom tiles to redo watrproofing - questio12
Aug 19, 2011 10:08 pm
From the numerous people we have spoken to on the matter (except the owner builder himself) I think we can safely agree with you.
We are currently waiting on a building inspector to come and officially inspect (at the OB's request because he doesn't want to admit to it being anything as serious as the waterproofing and is hoping it might just be a leaky pipe or something along those lines).
Fine with us... just have to wait it out a bit more.
Will keep everyone posted.
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