Browse Forums Bathrooms and Laundry 1 Feb 19, 2011 12:52 pm Hi I have just had a shower diagnosed as leaking. It was spotted by the carpet just outside the bathroom becoming wet. It appears that water is leaking through the tiles in the base of the shower and running under the tiles to the area just outside the bathroom door. Rather than pay lots of money for someone to come in and waterproof the shower I thought I would do it myself. The product I have been sold by Bunnings is Bondall Tile and grout Sealer (Tileguard). Can anyone comment on whether or not this is a good product for what I need or is it totally the wrong thing. Just have some doubts as it seemed quite cheap. Any other advice on this job greatly appreciated. Regards DJ Re: Leaking shower 2Feb 19, 2011 9:05 pm Hi we had the same problem with a rental property. The tiles had originally been placed directly on the plasterboard without waterproofing / membrane. We used silicone as a temporary measure, but bit the bullet recently and had the shower retiled properly. In doing so, we found the timber starting to rot, so its important to waterproof properly to ensure the buidling structure doesnt get damaged. BTW - insurance wont pay either.. Re: Leaking shower 3Mar 03, 2011 2:05 am Our previous two homes which were build by a building company had leaking showers. It was from not being sealed properly. They came back and repaired it as it was under warranty. I would suggest you pay someone who is the best you can find to come and seal your shower properly. It gets expensive replacing the tiles and a pain not being able to use your shower while it's being repaired. Talk to the tile shops and get there advice. Re: Leaking shower 4Mar 06, 2011 8:06 pm DJVaughan Hi I have just had a shower diagnosed as leaking. It was spotted by the carpet just outside the bathroom becoming wet. It appears that water is leaking through the tiles in the base of the shower and running under the tiles to the area just outside the bathroom door. Rather than pay lots of money for someone to come in and waterproof the shower I thought I would do it myself. The product I have been sold by Bunnings is Bondall Tile and grout Sealer (Tileguard). Can anyone comment on whether or not this is a good product for what I need or is it totally the wrong thing. Just have some doubts as it seemed quite cheap. Any other advice on this job greatly appreciated. Regards DJ Actually water is meant to pass through tiles and grout, so putting something on top of them like the products you mention is not really the way to go. Finding the real cause (why) it is leaking is the best way to go and then fixing the cause. The products you mention are a bit like a putting a band aid on to stop blood leaking. Waterproofing is all hidden beneath the tiles. Out of interest what kind of shower and screen do you have? Ie do you have a tray, a shower in the slab that is sunken, a shower at floor level or a raised shower? Also how far away is the door that the water is leaking out of? Re: Leaking shower 5Mar 16, 2011 10:24 pm AJW water is NOT supposed to go through tiles and grout. The only time it will or does is if tiles are damaged or grout cracks or silicone fails or is not fitted. Waterproofing should be installed under the tiles. If your tiles or grout leak the waterproofing is designed to stop water from damaging your subfloor, walls or causing any further structual damage to your house. The original posters question The product you have been sold will do the job tempararily if you follow the directions 100% correctly. It is a similiar product to what the shower repair companies use and charge about $600 to apply There is however no substitute for waterproofing correctly and retiling Re: Leaking shower 6Mar 17, 2011 6:05 am luxury bathrooms AJW water is NOT supposed to go through tiles and grout. The only time it will or does is if tiles are damaged or grout cracks or silicone fails or is not fitted. Waterproofing should be installed under the tiles. If your tiles or grout leak the waterproofing is designed to stop water from damaging your subfloor, walls or causing any further structual damage to your house. The original posters question The product you have been sold will do the job tempararily if you follow the directions 100% correctly. It is a similiar product to what the shower repair companies use and charge about $600 to apply There is however no substitute for waterproofing correctly and retiling Not sure where you get your info from, but water can and does go under tiles. In tiling terms, tiles are on the immersion zone of the water proofing system, clear proof is the simple fact that they are on the "wet side" of the water proofing membrane. As the tiles and grout are on the wet side certain tile adhesives cannot be used, because they are either wash away if wet or in the case of 1 part adhesives they cannot dry out properly due to the membrane. Also if the tiles and grout were waterproof as you infer then clearly there would be no need for the water proofing membrane below them. As for silicon where would you use that in a shower? Only ever seen silicon used OS. Here in OZ silicon is very rarely used on tiles. Yes the products described above can be used to seal tiles and grout to form an EXTRA barrier, or to repair in the event that the membrane has failed, but bottom line is in normal circumstances the membrane is THE barrier and the tiles are 100% part of the wet side. Re: Leaking shower 7Mar 17, 2011 7:25 am DJVaughan, I'm not an expert in this, but are you sure that it's not your pipes inside the timber frame that are leaking, and not just some surface mounted piece, like a shower head? I would be very keen to ensure where the leak is coming from and then take action accordingly. BTW, I also thought that grout (and tiles) are porous and they soak up water ... Also, I think that silicone is used as 'final touch' to cover all the various corner-joins, like where floor tiles meet wall tiles, or 2 walls meet at a corner, and the like My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Leaking shower 8Mar 17, 2011 9:14 am DJVaughan - If you want some advice send me a PM. There is too much rubish info on here at the moment and can't be bothered with the shirt load of garbage being portrayed here. Where you are coming from is where you are going to... Re: Leaking shower 10Mar 17, 2011 12:59 pm Lex ... BTW, I also thought that grout (and tiles) are porous and they soak up water ... Also, I think that silicone is used as 'final touch' to cover all the various corner-joins, like where floor tiles meet wall tiles, or 2 walls meet at a corner, and the like That's because it is indeed the case. My source was a TAFE tiling teacher on a tiling course I did recently and one of things things he couldn't stress enough was the fact that the tiles and grout are NOT the water barrier and that a proper water proofing membrane was the absolute critical water proofing barrier. Further proof comes from the fact that in new builds or renovations the tilers never use a sealant on the tiles, they very rarely use silicon on joints and also the simple fact that these sealant products only have a finite life before needing to be reapplied. So yep great for repair jobs if the membrane is leaking and you don't want to rip up the tiles but only in these situations. To the OP again the advice would be to find out the real cause of the leak and address that. Don't just assume it is the tiles or the membrane, it could well be coming from somewhere else. Re: Leaking shower 11Mar 17, 2011 1:05 pm And I should have elaborated - different types of tiles would obviously have different porousness. Also, one of the dreadful things about waterproofing of bathrooms is the possibility of the membrane cracking due to settlement and movement of frames, especially on the joints of vertical and horizontal surfaces My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Leaking shower 12Mar 17, 2011 1:20 pm Lex - the whole idea about providing a membrane is that it is always flexible where needed and the membrane has a bond breaker in the corners with a fabric to help 'bridge' the gap and not fail. Porosity of tiles for 'wet areas' is part of the waterproofing system. albeit above the membrane. NSW tafe once advocated silicone sealant...(until recently) that is old technology! Polyurethane sealants are much better at a decent service life. Any solid joins at floor and wall or wall/wall directional changes need a flexible joint sealant. Grout & tiles permeable??? you are kidding me right? So what happened pre 1990 when the new spec called for a waterproofing membrane? No membrane system and shower bases were fine for a number of years... about 5-7years depending on the tiler. The biggest cause of moisture ingress into adjacent rooms IS grout erosion followed by cracked tiles. Please note my bye line at the bottom of my post. Where you are coming from is where you are going to... Re: Leaking shower 13Mar 17, 2011 5:17 pm onc_artisan Lex - the whole idea about providing a membrane is that it is always flexible where needed and the membrane has a bond breaker in the corners with a fabric to help 'bridge' the gap and not fail. Porosity of tiles for 'wet areas' is part of the waterproofing system. albeit above the membrane. That's more or less what I have been saying! In relation tou your point about bond breakers, the gyproc residential installation manual in the link below has some good pictures that show exactly what you are talking about, on page 51 http://www.gyprock.com.au/downloads/dow ... 0_8126.pdf. Re: Leaking shower 14Mar 17, 2011 10:08 pm Please use all of my post not just a part of it Where you are coming from is where you are going to... Re: Leaking shower 16Mar 20, 2011 12:09 am onc_artisan Lex - the whole idea about providing a membrane is that it is always flexible where needed and the membrane has a bond breaker in the corners with a fabric to help 'bridge' the gap and not fail. Porosity of tiles for 'wet areas' is part of the waterproofing system. albeit above the membrane. NSW tafe once advocated silicone sealant...(until recently) that is old technology! Polyurethane sealants are much better at a decent service life. Any solid joins at floor and wall or wall/wall directional changes need a flexible joint sealant. Grout & tiles permeable??? you are kidding me right? So what happened pre 1990 when the new spec called for a waterproofing membrane? No membrane system and shower bases were fine for a number of years... about 5-7years depending on the tiler. The biggest cause of moisture ingress into adjacent rooms IS grout erosion followed by cracked tiles. Please note my bye line at the bottom of my post. Re: Leaking shower 18Mar 20, 2011 1:19 am AJW luxury bathrooms AJW water is NOT supposed to go through tiles and grout. The only time it will or does is if tiles are damaged or grout cracks or silicone fails or is not fitted. Waterproofing should be installed under the tiles. If your tiles or grout leak the waterproofing is designed to stop water from damaging your subfloor, walls or causing any further structual damage to your house. The original posters question The product you have been sold will do the job tempararily if you follow the directions 100% correctly. It is a similiar product to what the shower repair companies use and charge about $600 to apply There is however no substitute for waterproofing correctly and retiling Not sure where you get your info from, but water can and does go under tiles. In tiling terms, tiles are on the immersion zone of the water proofing system, clear proof is the simple fact that they are on the "wet side" of the water proofing membrane. As the tiles and grout are on the wet side certain tile adhesives cannot be used, because they are either wash away if wet or in the case of 1 part adhesives they cannot dry out properly due to the membrane. Also if the tiles and grout were waterproof as you infer then clearly there would be no need for the water proofing membrane below them. As for silicon where would you use that in a shower? Only ever seen silicon used OS. Here in OZ silicon is very rarely used on tiles. Yes the products described above can be used to seal tiles and grout to form an EXTRA barrier, or to repair in the event that the membrane has failed, but bottom line is in normal circumstances the membrane is THE barrier and the tiles are 100% part of the wet side. ok AJW you need to stop giving out incorrect information Clearly you have not listened to your lecturer at your tafe course For the record Tiles used in a wet area must be water resistant as per the building code ie glazed or suitably sealed and grout is cement based so is also water resistant, and a suitable waterproof flexible sealealant used at wall and floor junctions of tiles etc. Water will not penetrate a glazed tile in good condition A WATERPROOF membrane is below the tiles as detailed by ONC_ARTISAN and is in place if tiles or grout crack over a period of time. Ardex Silicone still meets the australian standard for floor, wall junctions and is used by most tilers as a flexible waterproof mould resistant sealant. However I do agree with ONC_ARTISAN that polyurethane sealants are a better option Now can you do one thing for me, look at the diagram on page 51 of the gyprock install manual link you posted. See how the waterproof membrane is installed below the screed/mortar bed in the diagram. The building code allows you to have your waterproof membrane either below your screed/mortar or above it. So if you have your waterproof below the screed , by your theory of the tiles being "WET" the screed is always wet as well. And believe me constantly wet screed will cause tiles to fail eventually no matter what glue system you use. Hence I put my waterproof membrane over my screed and use WATER RESISTANT tiles and grout to stop water penetrating to the membrane or sub floor The building code on water proofing wet areas makes good reading to. Re: Leaking shower 19Mar 20, 2011 9:51 am Thank heavens someone has a clue I appreciate the support LB you don't realize how important that is. Cheers BIG TIME Where you are coming from is where you are going to... Re: Leaking shower 20Mar 22, 2011 7:21 pm luxury bathrooms ok AJW you need to stop giving out incorrect information Clearly you have not listened to your lecturer at your tafe course For the record Tiles used in a wet area must be water resistant as per the building code ie glazed or suitably sealed and grout is cement based so is also water resistant, and a suitable waterproof flexible sealealant used at wall and floor junctions of tiles etc. Water will not penetrate a glazed tile in good condition A WATERPROOF membrane is below the tiles as detailed by ONC_ARTISAN and is in place if tiles or grout crack over a period of time. Ardex Silicone still meets the australian standard for floor, wall junctions and is used by most tilers as a flexible waterproof mould resistant sealant. However I do agree with ONC_ARTISAN that polyurethane sealants are a better option Now can you do one thing for me, look at the diagram on page 51 of the gyprock install manual link you posted. See how the waterproof membrane is installed below the screed/mortar bed in the diagram. The building code allows you to have your waterproof membrane either below your screed/mortar or above it. So if you have your waterproof below the screed , by your theory of the tiles being "WET" the screed is always wet as well. And believe me constantly wet screed will cause tiles to fail eventually no matter what glue system you use. Hence I put my waterproof membrane over my screed and use WATER RESISTANT tiles and grout to stop water penetrating to the membrane or sub floor The building code on water proofing wet areas makes good reading to. Actually I did listen to the TAFE teacher and have pulled out the course notes from said course. (did in in late 2009). When it comes to water proofing he clearly states that "contrary to popular belief tiles and grout are not water barriers. Both by their very nature allow a very small amount of water to pass through. A proper waterproofing membrane is the only way to protect the structure of the building from water damage...". He then goes on further to state this is why proper selection of adhesive in wet area's is so important. Now yes this was an amateur's course so maybe the terminology is simplified, but the basics are the same as what I have been saying which is water can and will get under tiles and that the membrane is THE water barrier. Further to this a few Google searches have brought up the following articles which discuss porosity of tiles and grout. The first article discusses porcilin and ceramic tiles, which if I am not mistaken are the most common tile used in bathrooms today. http://www.tilers.com.au/tilers-article ... tile-type/ It says Quote: Porcelain tiles Porcelain tiles are made dust pressing porcelain clays to produce a smooth and resistant tile. Porcelain tiles have a very low water-absorption rate than other tiles. Glazed porcelain tiles are even more liquid resistant as well as wear resistant and are suitable for spaces that encounter heavy traffic. Ceramic tiles Ceramic tiles are very durable but not as hard-wearing as porcelain tiles. They are more porous than porcelain tiles and therefore not as resistant to liquid but glazed ceramic tiles are more water resistant. Ceramic tiles are also versatile and can be used on both floors and walls. The other great thing about ceramic tiles is that they are easy to maintain and can be easily cleaned. This page discusses the Australian standard when it comes to classification of ceramic tiles according to prosity: http://www.stoneworld.com.au/v2/index.p ... &Itemid=23 Want an American article?: http://www.tileusa.com/geniusessp.htm As for grout's the following page mentions the simple fact that grout is prous (in fact most cement based products are porus, hence the need to put a membrane over concrete slabs and fibro cement sheeting) http://mosaictiles.com.au/mosaic%20tile ... stions.htm Quote: Sanded Grout is a porous cement, which means that it can absorb liquid materials after it has dried and this one: http://www.allcarpets.com.au/tile-grout-cleaning In particular : Quote: Grouts are porous and, as a result, they easily absorb grease, dirt and lime scale. Now also correct me if I am wrong, but don't most sealers rely on the simple fact that tiles and grout are porous? Ie they work by absorbing the sealer, which in turn fills the pores in the material which would otherwise allow the product to absorb and let through water. Want to make one thing clear at no point have I ever said that underneath the tiles will be soaking wet, all I have ever stated is the tiles are on the WET side of the water proofing membrane and that it would not be unexpected or unusual to have water under them. It seems I am right in this regard. PS The teacher also recommended what you suggested in applying an extra layer of waterproofing over the screed, just as an extra layer of protection. DIY, Home Maintenance & Repair Hi, I've got a brand new (2nd hand) Bosch Hydropower 16H tankless hot water heater. Since it was installed I have noticed it leaks a lot. I took the cover off and it looks… 0 24147 I'll look into different shower heads and ask the plumber about some engineering and see what he says. 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