Browse Forums Heating, Cooling & Insulation 1 Mar 05, 2018 3:47 pm Hi All, I have just ran accross an interesting hydronic heating/cooling systems which can be built into the walls and/or ceilings: https://www.variotherm.com/en/products/ ... tered.html https://www.variotherm.com/en/products/ ... ywall.html https://www.variotherm.com/en/products/ ... ywall.html From what I see, it is an advantage over almost any ducted system out there: - each room/zone can be configured for its own cooling or heating temperature - no draughts - no dust/air movement (great for allergic people etc.) - completely silent - virtually zero maintainainance - better energy savings as, unlike radiators, due to larger areas, the water temperature does not have to go very high (e.g. up to 35 degrees to heat a house). Around 30% energy savings when compared to conventional heating systems. - comparable or lower cost of installation - can be installed as a plaster or drywall, just requires a bit of extra plumbing to and from the manifolds. It is about GBP40 per sqm installed in the UK, so should be probably around $100 per sqm when installed in Australia. What do you think? Re: Variotherm Wall Heating/Cooling 2Mar 07, 2018 6:42 pm So I'm trying to understand, is the piping visable on the face of the wall/ceiling or is it enclosed behind the cladding?? If it is fully encased in plaster sheets, I'd be wary of marketing spiel as plasterboard is more of a thermal insulator than a conductor. Does it also heat/cool the wall cavity? seems like a waste of energy if it was. I'd also be wary when it has cold water piped through it for cooling, how would you stop the pipe work from condensating without extensive humidity and dew point controls for each zone aka room? This sweating will eventually rot out the plasterboard. Re: Variotherm Wall Heating/Cooling 3Mar 08, 2018 3:06 am It is concealed and I guess they are using some special plasterboard with piping in it. Generally, wall insulation is behind the plasterboard. My understanding that they saying water required for cooling is generally above 15 degrees, so it won't be creating any condensation. Re: Variotherm Wall Heating/Cooling 4Mar 09, 2018 12:42 am I'm even more skeptical if that is what they reckon. Dew point is governed by the laws of psychrometrics and will ramp up and down based on temperatures and humidity to be putting it simply. It's not some magical static value that never changes. How much sensible cooling it is able to provide if it needs to maintain the water temperature above dew point to prevent condensation? My gut feeling is more than likely those pipes will be condensating... Whatever they are encasing the pipes in, if it's anything like plasterboard then it will act more like a thermal insulator than a thermal conductor. You have to question how much energy is required to cool a wall which is potentially a thermal insulator before it is to have any effect in conditioning the temperature of the room. Does your figure of $100 per sqm include the installation of insulation in the wall cavity? Most volume built houses would only be insulated on external walls unless the internal walls were requested to be insulated for acoustic properties or such. I'm happy to be proven wrong and if you are looking to get this sort of system installed in your home, please report back with some real world thoughts. Re: Variotherm Wall Heating/Cooling 5Mar 09, 2018 3:22 am I would have to confirm how they are treating dew point, but generally, I don't see why water running at 15-20 degrees won't be able to do the cooling job. As for the insulation, 10-15 mm plasterboard itself is not a very good insulator, with R value well below 0.1. It will probably just take 15 minutes or so for the heat or cold to pass through the plasterboard, other than that - it should be fine, no additional energy will be required. Also, my understanding that they are using some special plasterboard with lower insulation properties. But yes, in general, there are questions which need to be answered. Those guys claim they have thousands of installations though, quite sure they are handling the above issues one way or another. Re: Variotherm Wall Heating/Cooling 6Mar 09, 2018 7:44 am alexp79 I would have to confirm how they are treating dew point, but generally, I don't see why water running at 15-20 degrees won't be able to do the cooling job. As for the insulation, 10-15 mm plasterboard itself is not a very good insulator, with R value well below 0.1. It will probably just take 15 minutes or so for the heat or cold to pass through the plasterboard, other than that - it should be fine, no additional energy will be required. Also, my understanding that they are using some special plasterboard with lower insulation properties. But yes, in general, there are questions which need to be answered. Those guys claim they have thousands of installations though, quite sure they are handling the above issues one way or another. Re: Variotherm Wall Heating/Cooling 8Mar 09, 2018 8:08 am alexp79 They have some representation in Spain and South Africa, though. Re: Variotherm Wall Heating/Cooling 9Mar 09, 2018 8:16 am I am in Thornleigh/Normanhurst area. On a plateau. I am more a fan of radiated rather than convection heating and cooling, though. Multi-split system has to be ducted somehow? Otherwise, split blocks look a bit ugly on the walls. I am designing a passive house and looking for a cooling solution for the upper storey bedrooms, which I most likely will be able to use more likely just a few nights in a year. I planning to have just a ceiling fans on the ground floor, which has a big open area and can be open throughout. For heating (also, likely for just few days in a year), I am thinking of a nice looking gas fireplace with the ability to re-route heat into a couple of additional zones. Re: Variotherm Wall Heating/Cooling 10Mar 09, 2018 8:27 am alexp79 I am in Thornleigh/Normanhurst area. On a plateau. I am more a fan of radiated rather than convection heating and cooling, though. Multi-split system has to be ducted somehow? Otherwise, split blocks look a bit ugly on the walls. I am designing a passive house and looking for some solution for the upper storey bedrooms, which I most likely will be able to use more likely just a few nights in a year. For heating (also, likely for just few days in a year), I am thinking of a nice looking gas fireplace with the ability to re-route heat into a couple of additional zones. When I get going, I'll start a blog about the build. Re: Variotherm Wall Heating/Cooling 12Mar 10, 2018 7:16 pm ddarroch I like your thinking Searching4 knowledge. Re: Variotherm Wall Heating/Cooling 13May 15, 2018 7:27 am Hi guys, looks like the commentary has fizzled out on the Variotherm. Just joined the forum. I am an owner-builder at the sub-floor stage. Need to decide on heating for sub floor installation. I like the look of the Variotherm underfloor system. It is compact and looks easy to install and promotes a high efficiency rating. The big issue is availability. Importing the system would have its problems, especially if you under ordered!. On cost the $100 quoted by the OP, I think that might be a little short. Importing your own will provide a whole new series of consequences and port and dock fees! I have not been able to locate a supplier here in Australia. Any clues to that? I did stumble upon this Kiwi link, if they can do it....! http://www.advantageaustria.org/nz/oest ... RM.en.html Regards to you all Ourbobby Re: Variotherm Wall Heating/Cooling 14May 20, 2018 10:12 am Looks like hydronic type pf heating there are various types out there easy enough to install provided youknow what you are doing but it is hard to get the parts togheter if you not a plumber. Why do't you write to the company asking for a rep or someone that handles their products in Australia ? Thank you again Simeon.. I will call my certifier for that. Have a good day 4 5179 Does anyone have a suggestion for a good hydronic in slab heating speacialist who may be able to help me with an existing system and wether or not it may need a seperator… 0 4882 Thanks for the insights, that makes perfect sense, and yeah, I will be leaning on the experience of the excavator operator entirely. 6 16122 |