Browse Forums Heating, Cooling & Insulation 1 Aug 05, 2008 4:36 pm Any advice/recommendation for insulating the new Reverse Brick Veneer walls? I need a good bang for my buck, 2.5 R, and something that I could install DIY without giving myself a lung cancer.
Chris My father rode a camel, I drive a car, my son flies in a jetliner, his son will ride a camel.Saudi saying Re: Which insulation for the RBV walls? 2Aug 05, 2008 4:58 pm I'm certainly no expert, but just as far as not giving you lung cancer (or horribly prickly skin!) you could use the polester batts. DH just used those to insulate the ceiling btw floors in our house - he said it was so much easier than using the glass wool batts. I think they were R2. 5 . As for RBV - I have no idea!!! Good luck! Solidarity, not solidity.......The Lexicon of Life Re: Which insulation for the RBV walls? 3Aug 06, 2008 9:41 pm I'd go poly batts.
Just done many packs of it - on top of FG and new areas - they are streets (hmmmm highways) apart. What is your doona made of wool, poly or fibreglass Take your pick - same in the walls and ceiling. Steve Re: Which insulation for the RBV walls? 4Aug 12, 2008 8:44 pm when concidering insulation the R value is the important factor, polyester Batts you will find are hard to cut and typically dearer than fibreglass batts. Fibreglass wont give you cancer, but are irritating to the skin for a few days.
be sure that when you install batts into the wall that the batts dont protrute past the stud framing, i think from memory an r2.5 fibreglass batt is about 100mm thick, this would be ok in a 90mm wall frame, its polyester cousin is around 150mm thick, this would not be suitable as you would have to squash the batt in and believe it or not will eventually bow your plaster board. i hope this helps a little and btw what is RBV? Re: Which insulation for the RBV walls? 5Aug 12, 2008 9:51 pm RBV - Reverse Brick Veneer. I'm planning on approx 1/2 of the external walls to be lined with bricks on the inside. So there should be room enough there for the thicker batts. BTW, King's here in WA advertises R 2.5 poly batts only 90 mm thick. I've heard that the fibreglass batts sag/compact or something with time ?? Is this true ?
Chris My father rode a camel, I drive a car, my son flies in a jetliner, his son will ride a camel.Saudi saying Re: Which insulation for the RBV walls? 6Aug 12, 2008 10:07 pm Hi Chris
Our local community group has done a bit of research into different types of insulation and their costs recently. I don't know if this is helpful but this is from our website... Price? Glasswool is the cheapest stuff. Polyester and thermowool may be superior products but are up to double price of glass batts. Glasswool for the ceiling is definitely the cheapest option and for people insulating large areas it will make a big difference to costs. Batts or blankets? Batts are cheaper than blankets. Batts are usually used for most framed walls, floors and ceilings. However, blankets are a very good way to add extra insulation to ceilings (most Tasmanian homes have inadequate ceiling insulation). The best way to add insulation to your existing ceiling is to lay blanket over the ceiling joists. That is, on top of the insulation that is between the joists. The blanket does not need to be very thick, because it is an addition. It is also easy to remove in case there is a need to do wiring or something in the ceiling space later on. Insulation batts between the ceiling joists are okay but that does not do a complete job because there may be little gaps and the joists themselves transmit heat. Preferred materials: Glasswool has to be installed wearing protective clothes and mask. It has the Asthma Foundation tick but the “polyester” people say about that “anyone with enough money can buy that tick from the Asthma Foundation”. Glasswool apparently will break down longterm (10 years) and crumble and can’t be moved, so they say. It can cause air pollution especially in houses with ventilation ducts or old houses where things are not sealed of properly…Well I leave that to you to investigate further. Here is some information from the “polyester sellers” which they googled. health-risks pink-glow Rockwool. This is generally superior to glass wool, also better for sound insulation and can handle much higher temperatures (good for places adjacent to flues). But is more expensive. Polyester and Thermowool? We will go for either of these because we don’t want to take a risk with those allergies and asthma in our family and also we will only need a small area to cover. No protective clothing needs to be worn during installation of polyester, no health risks, doesn’t break down long term, not eaten by rats, fire proofed… What advantage does thermowool have over polyester? Well, this is what their website says. “Thermowool blend is superior to synthetic insulating materials because it won’t slump or compress, and retains its R rating for the life of the building. Wool insulation has benefits others can’t match. Because of wool’s natural ability to absorb and desorb moisture, the wool acts like an evaporative cooler and heater, cooling when it’s hot and warming up the house when it’s cold. This has been proven by the CSIRO with tests done in Central Australia where the temperatures are extreme.” (as stated on the website). Closed cell foam (semi-rigid): This comes in rolls 1 metre by 30 metre and can be used like a blanket – spread over ceiling joists or in sandwich roofs (where there is no attic space). Is apparantly non-flammable. So….. what to get? Maybe we can get in two bulk deliveries. One for polyester or thermowool and one for glasswool/pink batts. Lastly, here is a Good Information Sheet from Victorian government PRICES – PRICES – PRICES – PRICES – PRICES – PRICES (To make it easy, all prices are per square meter, so you can compare them easily.) For walls or floor R 1.5 is recommended or R 2 for cooler rooms (south facing, dark…). For ceilings R 3.5 is recommended. Glasswool (Bradford) Ph: 6234 3481 R 1.5 – $4.24 (wall) R 2.0 – $5.45 R 3.5 – $5.88 (ceiling) R 2.5 – $11.25 (ceiling blankets - more expensive because lower demand) Discount Deal: need final numbers Glasswool (Aurora) Ph: 1300 306734 R 2.0 – $5.20 (wall) R 3.8 – $6.35 (ceiling) R 4.0 – $7.62 Discount deal: pay within 14 days and receive $20 discount if order of more than 55.2 meter square or $ 30 for 110 meter square and more Polyester Insulate Tasmania Ph: 6271 3434 R 1.5 – $6.35 (wall) R 2.0 – $8.50 R 3.5 – $15.5 (ceiling) Blanket: $7.80 Discount deal: couple of hundred of whole house insulation plus free delivery, need final numbers for final discount. Cool or Cosy (ph 6272 1699) also sell polyester insulation at much the same price. Wool / Polyester blend Thermowool Ph: 6272 3189 R 1.5 – $5.10 (wall) R 2.0 – $6.70 R 3.5 – $12.50 (ceiling) (No blanket available) Closed cell foam Cool or Cosy Ph: ph 6272 1699 $15 per sq metre (not sure of R rating) They also sell blown-in cellulose fibre which is good value at $10 per square metre fully installed and made from recycled materials. Ony good for ceilings though. The prices are for Tasmania obviously. Also our designer mentioned an insulation to us the other day R2.5 90mm for $5.50 a sq metre. Not sure what sort of insulation it is though. I've sent him an email and can let you know later if you like. Judging by the price it's probably glasswool. Sorry for the long post. Originally I just put a link to the website but then thought better of it as it may have phone numbers etc on it. Cheers 'chelle We have a hand-over date...15/10...but I won't hold my breath! http://people-in-glass-houses.blogspot.com/ Re: Which insulation for the RBV walls? 7Aug 13, 2008 3:33 pm Thanks 'chelle, that's very informative. I've calculated rough figure for insulation and Poly's about 30% more expensive.
As for the fibreglass batts, they do crumble, the old ones in the ceiling of my fibro shack are almost congealed, mice made tunnels through them last year (they must've died off of something since, either rat poison or glass fibres). Chris My father rode a camel, I drive a car, my son flies in a jetliner, his son will ride a camel.Saudi saying Re: Which insulation for the RBV walls? 8Aug 13, 2008 4:05 pm R 2.5 is U 0.4
I would go for a U-value of about 0.25 or 0.2 (R 4 or 5) Together with your low E double glazed uPVC windows you should achive a very good result. It is every $$ worth because energy prices have only one direction UP UP UP UP... It is very important that your building wrap is absolutly air tight otherwise you have a constant breeze in your wall and the performance of your insulation is very much compromised Re: Which insulation for the RBV walls? 10Aug 13, 2008 4:53 pm Hi Windowexpert,
R 4-5 will be hard to achieve in the framed wall, as the thickest batt it can take is 90-100mm thick. I'll have to research combining batts with sisalation, or something reflective. I realise that the energy prices will rise steeply in the future, but sadly, in the end, it'll all come down to money that I can put together NOW. As Kermit said, "It's not easy to be green" . Chris My father rode a camel, I drive a car, my son flies in a jetliner, his son will ride a camel.Saudi saying Re: Which insulation for the RBV walls? 11Aug 13, 2008 8:43 pm Quote: Do you have remove existing roof insulation before putting new stuff in? Chris My father rode a camel, I drive a car, my son flies in a jetliner, his son will ride a camel.Saudi saying Re: Which insulation for the RBV walls? 12Aug 13, 2008 8:50 pm No, you don't have to. A lot of people in our community group are looking at just putting an insulation blanket over the top of their existing insulation. Mind you, if it is really badly degraded, then it's something you may want to consider...ask an insulation company. 'chelle We have a hand-over date...15/10...but I won't hold my breath! http://people-in-glass-houses.blogspot.com/ Re: Which insulation for the RBV walls? 13Aug 13, 2008 9:22 pm windowexpert R 2.5 is U 0.4 I would go for a U-value of about 0.25 or 0.2 (R 4 or 5) Together with your low E double glazed uPVC windows you should achive a very good result. It is every $$ worth because energy prices have only one direction UP UP UP UP... It is very important that your building wrap is absolutly air tight otherwise you have a constant breeze in your wall and the performance of your insulation is very much compromised Hi windowexpert, I'm also wondering how to achieve this with conventional or concrete bricks. We will be using R2.5 insulation in the walls and 'the roof is R1.5 + R3.8 + ref air space + films' (copied from the designers email). Thanks 'chelle We have a hand-over date...15/10...but I won't hold my breath! http://people-in-glass-houses.blogspot.com/ Re: Which insulation for the RBV walls? 14Aug 15, 2008 7:33 am Hi Kristo
I would be sceptical of a claim that r2.5 at 90mm can be achieved with poly batts, typically poly batts need to be nearly twice as thick as Glasswool batts to achieve the same R rating, as for glass batts collapsing in walls, proper wall batts have a toughened outer skin which helps make the product rigid enough to stand in the wall cavity, as for fibreglass deteriorating over time, this may have been the case 20 years ago but i can assure you that manufacturers now guarentee the product for the life of the home. i dont have any bias toward either product as R value is R value, however after working in the industry for 11 years for a company that manufactured both products i still use fibreglass. hope this helps Re: Which insulation for the RBV walls? 15Aug 16, 2008 10:57 am I'm not 100% for Poly, and I'm not discarding the Gold Batts neither. I'd like just to be re-assured that they wont turn into mush after a few years. What do you think about other stuff, like wool mixes ?
Chris My father rode a camel, I drive a car, my son flies in a jetliner, his son will ride a camel.Saudi saying Re: Which insulation for the RBV walls? 16Aug 16, 2008 9:44 pm Kristow. These might help with your decision.
http://unionsafe.labor.net.au/hazards/10481130845247.html http://www.enviroair.com.au/Hidden_Hazards.pdf Re: Which insulation for the RBV walls? 17Aug 16, 2008 10:35 pm Hi,
to achive the desired U-value or R-value the structure of the wall, the prefered insulation material and the cladding or plaster must be taken into account. This determines the over all thickness of the wall. It is wrong to decide on the wall thickness first and to try get the desired insulation performance out of it. 4x2 framing is certainly not good enough to build a seriously energy efficient house Re: Which insulation for the RBV walls? 18Aug 18, 2008 7:42 am kristofw I'm not 100% for Poly, and I'm not discarding the Gold Batts neither. I'd like just to be re-assured that they wont turn into mush after a few years. What do you think about other stuff, like wool mixes ? Chris Wool blends are much the same as polyester i think they use a 80/20 blend, wool insulation on its own is not a great product as fire retardants need to be added also chemicals for pest prevention is also required, i have seen evidence of carpet moth infestation with this type of insulation, also as with polyester some of the R value claims have been over rated, in my experience for polyester and woolblend to compete with fibreglass they have had to reduce the thickness of the the batts = lower material costs = less R value. Blow in paper (celulose fibre) has its problems to, this product need to be pumped in to a minimum depth of 110mm and would require a seal coat over the top to prevent the stuff blowing around in your roof space, blow in paper also settles very quickly and a top up may be required after 12 months, it also requires treatment for vermin and fire and is difficult to work with if you need to do any type of work in your roof cavity. personally, if the budget allows i would use polyester, but i use fibreglass as it does the job and its more economical. when choosing your insulation stick with the larger more well known companies as they have their reputation to protect and you can be assured that the R value claimed is the R value you get. Re: Which insulation for the RBV walls? 19Aug 18, 2008 8:50 pm Methinks.
Quote: Blow in paper (celulose fibre) has its problems to, this product need to be pumped in to a minimum depth of 110mm and would require a seal coat over the top to prevent the stuff blowing around in your roof space It actually doesn't blow all around - the fibre of the paper knits itself together and after the intitial few days there is little movement. I did a roof job many years back and the wind got up - we had the roof iron off and the road was covered in what we thought was all the insulation, but in fact it was a smidgen of the top - and it very quickly stopped blowing anything off. re the poly - I think that what happens there is people squash it down and into places because it is so fluffy and yes that reduces it's effectivness / R value. I'ts great stuff to work with compared to glass. but Kristow - if it's price, and in a wall - look at glass, my walls are 15 years old and I recently cut a hole in to run some speaker wires and the batts in there were in good condition on inside of the western wall. Not what I'd call as new, but certainly looking OK. Is the current batt manufacturing process the same? Ask methinks. Steve Re: Which insulation for the RBV walls? 20Aug 18, 2008 10:34 pm I found an independent Web site comparing various kinds of insulation (and like an idiot forgot to bookmark it ). It lists the extruded Polysterene boards as the best, followed by expanded, followed by rockwool, followed by glass and Polyester batts. I wonder if anybody retails those extruded boards and for how much. But putting aside these flights of fancy, I'll probably get Pink Batts or similar and maybe Air-Cell as sarking, if I can afford it.
Chris My father rode a camel, I drive a car, my son flies in a jetliner, his son will ride a camel.Saudi saying Hey guys building a new place through a volume builder and just wondering if i should complain to the site supervisor as we just had plasterboard installed. Looks like… 0 11275 1000000% definitely add insulation. I have in my home and it makes a big difference minimising sound transfer. Insulation is pretty cheap and definitely worth it 2 6205 |