Browse Forums Heating, Cooling & Insulation 1 Feb 16, 2015 2:51 pm This is my first post in homeone. I'm interested in feedback from members with Brivis Ice add-on refrigerated cooling. Specifically the 3 phase 18 kw or 21 kw outside units. We are experiencing problems when the unit first starts. There is loud "thump" which reverberates around the house and wakes everyone in the nearby bedrooms. The noise is coming from the main relay/contactor in the outside unit. I'm wondering if this is "standard" issue or our unit has a problem? So far, the installer and Brivis do seem keen to communicate. Re: Brivis Ice Add on Cooling Start up noise 2Feb 16, 2015 11:38 pm When contactors energize they do have a thumping noise. It should be no where loud enough that it reverberates around your house though. Perhaps your outdoor unit needs to sit on rubber feet to cushion any shock and prevent/reduce it being transferred through your house.Failing that you could have an electrician replace the contactor with a soft starter. hth Re: Brivis Ice Add on Cooling Start up noise 3Feb 17, 2015 7:55 am Bels When contactors energize they do have a thumping noise. It should be no where loud enough that it reverberates around your house though. Perhaps your outdoor unit needs to sit on rubber feet to cushion any shock and prevent/reduce it being transferred through your house.Failing that you could have an electrician replace the contactor with a soft starter. hth The whole condensing unit installation has been a saga. The installers have been back a few times. Originally it was installed on wall brackets and solidly mounted. It was then changed to be mounted on waffle-pad anti-vibration mounts which required the wall bracket to changed. Then the piping was transferring vibration into the structure. The penetration through the hebel was opened up and sealed with elastomer sealant. After that I added some "props" under the unit to reduce the load on the wall. We are to the stage where the running noise/vibration is now acceptable. However the contactor (S&S 70 amp/24 AC coil) now wakes the dead even through the double glazing. I'm in agreement about the soft start. However it's quite a job (and expense) to fit. The wiring in the unit needs to altered. The fans (currently piggy backed off one phase) need separate switching because it would un-balance a soft starter. Then there is the cost of of the SS which ranges from $350- $1000 depending on the features. Many have a bypass contactor so it could be out of frying pan into the fire. The best option would be three solid state relays , but a 70amp/600v SSR is around $180 ea plus the heat sink. http://www.crydom.com/en/Products/Catalog/c_w48.pdf Either way , it will be expensive exercise, which I believe the manufacturer should wear because the unit is not really fit for purpose. The manufacturer's service tech made contact last night. So maybe a fix is in the pipe line I'll update progress as things happen. Re: Brivis Ice Add on Cooling Start up noise 4Feb 17, 2015 5:42 pm Yes i have a 18 kw unit and it does make a fair sound, however if you look under AC noise post in this forum you will see how i have almost completely eliminated the noise of this and running vibration also. viewtopic.php?f=20&t=74661 Re: Brivis Ice Add on Cooling Start up noise 5Feb 17, 2015 7:20 pm kassan1973 Yes i have a 18 kw unit and it does make a fair sound, however if you look under AC noise post in this forum you will see how i have almost completely eliminated the noise of this and running vibration also. viewtopic.php?f=20&t=74661 I've already fitted resilient mounts. They are purpose built aircon anti vibration mounts. In our install the condenser is 300mm below the gutter. The bottom of the unit is at waist level. I've fitted "props" under the unit to transfer load into the pathway slab. This removed all of the mechanical vibration. We needed this position to allow access for a wheelie under the unit. We have a narrow block (12.19m wide) so width is at a premium. I assume your unit is the R22 refrigerant version? If it's more than 9 months old it will be R22. We have the later unit (DO-SC18Z9). It runs R410A as refrigerant. R410a runs at much higher pressure that R22. So the compressor works harder to achieve the same cooling capacity. The only issue that remains is thump the mains contactor makes when closing. I believe this contactor is also different to the R22 versions in order to cope with the 87amps per phase starting current (locked rotor) It seems the problem is due to the contactor being mounted on a 18 gauge folded tray inside the unit. The vibration is transferred to the tray which acts like a speaker cone and radiates the noise. To make matters worse the inside of the case is not very well sound insulated. There is single piece of under felt like material next to the compressor and naff all else. Re: Brivis Ice Add on Cooling Start up noise 6Feb 20, 2015 1:20 am jack russell Bels When contactors energize they do have a thumping noise. It should be no where loud enough that it reverberates around your house though. Perhaps your outdoor unit needs to sit on rubber feet to cushion any shock and prevent/reduce it being transferred through your house.Failing that you could have an electrician replace the contactor with a soft starter. hth The whole condensing unit installation has been a saga. The installers have been back a few times. Originally it was installed on wall brackets and solidly mounted. It was then changed to be mounted on waffle-pad anti-vibration mounts which required the wall bracket to changed. Then the piping was transferring vibration into the structure. The penetration through the hebel was opened up and sealed with elastomer sealant. After that I added some "props" under the unit to reduce the load on the wall. We are to the stage where the running noise/vibration is now acceptable. However the contactor (S&S 70 amp/24 AC coil) now wakes the dead even through the double glazing. I'm in agreement about the soft start. However it's quite a job (and expense) to fit. The wiring in the unit needs to altered. The fans (currently piggy backed off one phase) need separate switching because it would un-balance a soft starter. Then there is the cost of of the SS which ranges from $350- $1000 depending on the features. Many have a bypass contactor so it could be out of frying pan into the fire. The best option would be three solid state relays , but a 70amp/600v SSR is around $180 ea plus the heat sink. http://www.crydom.com/en/Products/Catalog/c_w48.pdf Either way , it will be expensive exercise, which I believe the manufacturer should wear because the unit is not really fit for purpose. The manufacturer's service tech made contact last night. So maybe a fix is in the pipe line I'll update progress as things happen. Hi Sorry for the late reply, been busy. The soft starter should generally be able to replace the contactor directly without requireing a bypass contactor. The reason a bypass contactor is required is if your soft starter is not rated to carry continuous current draw through it. The piggy backed fans is easily resolved as generally the soft starters will allow use of auxillary contacts for supplementry switching. If ultimately your intention is to have the manufacturer pay for the rework/modifications, why bother with the SSRs/SCRs and just aim to have a soft starter engineered in to fit. Contact consumer affairs or the office of fair trading in your state if not in Victoria. They're be able to advise you of your rights under consumer law. How did you go with the service tech? Re: Brivis Ice Add on Cooling Start up noise 7Feb 20, 2015 7:09 am Bels jack russell Bels When contactors energize they do have a thumping noise. It should be no where loud enough that it reverberates around your house though. Perhaps your outdoor unit needs to sit on rubber feet to cushion any shock and prevent/reduce it being transferred through your house.Failing that you could have an electrician replace the contactor with a soft starter. hth The whole condensing unit installation has been a saga. The installers have been back a few times. Originally it was installed on wall brackets and solidly mounted. It was then changed to be mounted on waffle-pad anti-vibration mounts which required the wall bracket to changed. Then the piping was transferring vibration into the structure. The penetration through the hebel was opened up and sealed with elastomer sealant. After that I added some "props" under the unit to reduce the load on the wall. We are to the stage where the running noise/vibration is now acceptable. However the contactor (S&S 70 amp/24 AC coil) now wakes the dead even through the double glazing. I'm in agreement about the soft start. However it's quite a job (and expense) to fit. The wiring in the unit needs to altered. The fans (currently piggy backed off one phase) need separate switching because it would un-balance a soft starter. Then there is the cost of of the SS which ranges from $350- $1000 depending on the features. Many have a bypass contactor so it could be out of frying pan into the fire. The best option would be three solid state relays , but a 70amp/600v SSR is around $180 ea plus the heat sink. http://www.crydom.com/en/Products/Catalog/c_w48.pdf Either way , it will be expensive exercise, which I believe the manufacturer should wear because the unit is not really fit for purpose. The manufacturer's service tech made contact last night. So maybe a fix is in the pipe line I'll update progress as things happen. Hi Sorry for the late reply, been busy. The soft starter should generally be able to replace the contactor directly without requireing a bypass contactor. The reason a bypass contactor is required is if your soft starter is not rated to carry continuous current draw through it. The piggy backed fans is easily resolved as generally the soft starters will allow use of auxillary contacts for supplementry switching. If ultimately your intention is to have the manufacturer pay for the rework/modifications, why bother with the SSRs/SCRs and just aim to have a soft starter engineered in to fit. Contact consumer affairs or the office of fair trading in your state if not in Victoria. They're be able to advise you of your rights under consumer law. How did you go with the service tech? The Brivis Field service manager, plus a Brivis service technician and Brivis sales rep attended. The reason I posted was to try to get some idea if the problems was wide spread. I heard back from the service manager yesterday. They now have a fix for the issue and will attend site soon to install. They set up a unit in the workshop for testing. This is the reason for the delay. The solution involves adding acoustic insulation to inside the condenser and electrical control panel. To be fair Brivis have been responsive, if a little slow to communicate, but once they filled me in what happening I could understand the reason. After speaking to the Service manager I'm confident that Brivis are committed to sorting the problem one way or another. I'll keep you posted on progress. EDIT: Service call booked in for Monday 23 Re: Brivis Ice Add on Cooling Start up noise 8Feb 23, 2015 6:15 pm That was a wasted day. Brivis tech rang at 09:00 and gave a time of 12:00-2:00pm onsite. Hung around all morning, only to get a call 30secs after a rain shower at 1:15 cancelling the call because of rain. The rain lasted 10 min and the rest of day has been clear. I was told the "office" will ring to make another time. Such is life. Re: Brivis Ice Add on Cooling Start up noise 9Feb 27, 2015 3:46 pm Brivis arrived today as re-booked. The unit has been comprehensively sound deadened inside. The contactor "thump" has all but been completely eliminated. The contactor is now no longer an issue. However another minor issue has arisen - I'll keep everyone posted. Brivis are working to sort it out. Can't ask for more. Re: Brivis Ice Add on Cooling Start up noise 11Jun 18, 2015 4:00 pm siapao Great to hear a positive outcome has been achieved. Keeping posted to see what happens with the minor issue. It's been a long and difficult road (for Brivis). However I'm giving them full marks for their attitude to customer service and product back up: it's now sorted. The fix ended up a mix of solutions: 1) Rubber cone mounts between the condenser and the brackets 2) A pair of timber props under the wall bracket arms to transfer load into the concrete path 3) Sound insulation inside the unit 4) A compressor "Hood" to silence compressor noise 3) Removal of the outside coil cover and fitting of a specially manufactured corner piece. 4) Fitting "anaconda" vibration eliminators on the compressor suction and discharge lines and extensive mods to internal plumbing. It certainly instills confidence in a product with this kind of product support. A big thank you to Colin and the team at Brivis. Brivis even re-started my 5 year warranty as of the date of service. If I had my time again I'd put the unit on the ground and not on wall brackets and take the rubbish bins out via the other side!. Re: Brivis Ice Add on Cooling Start up noise 12Jun 19, 2015 8:16 am jack russell siapao Great to hear a positive outcome has been achieved. Keeping posted to see what happens with the minor issue. It's been a long and difficult road (for Brivis). However I'm giving them full marks for their attitude to customer service and product back up: it's now sorted. The fix ended up a mix of solutions: 1) Rubber cone mounts between the condenser and the brackets 2) A pair of timber props under the wall bracket arms to transfer load into the concrete path 3) Sound insulation inside the unit 4) A compressor "Hood" to silence compressor noise 3) Removal of the outside coil cover and fitting of a specially manufactured corner piece. 4) Fitting "anaconda" vibration eliminators on the compressor suction and discharge lines and extensive mods to internal plumbing. It certainly instills confidence in a product with this kind of product support. A big thank you to Colin and the team at Brivis. Brivis even re-started my 5 year warranty as of the date of service. If I had my time again I'd put the unit on the ground and not on wall brackets and take the rubbish bins out via the other side!. Glad to hear a positive outcome was reached in the end, and Brivis provided great Customer Service! We'll be having our unit installed on the ground ourselves for fear of noise/vibration generated had it been wall mounted. Nope, only on the inside, I've literally has my ears to the brick outside and can't hear anything. I can sort of 'reset' the noise by pressing firmly on the studs. This… 10 11693 Upgrading your windows to soundproof ones, like triple-glazed, can make a significant difference. While changing window… 4 11616 go upvc window frames ensure insulation under colorbond. not just sarking, lighter color roof also not sure if you have seen this viewtopic.php?t=5823 last couple of pages… 4 110209 |