Browse Forums Heating, Cooling & Insulation 1 Apr 22, 2008 9:57 pm We're building a passive solar house, but will have slow combustion heater for those colder days that we occasionally get down here , but we are wondering what to use to heat the kids bedrooms, which are located on the southern side of the house. They only have small celestory windows on the northern side, which most probably will not provide enough solar heat.
Options we are considering 1). Ducted heat transfer from family room where slow combustion heater is located. How much roof space is required for this sort of thing? We won't have a lot of roof space. 2). Hydronic heat radiators using solar heated hot water (evacuated glass tube panels)...sound expensive 3). Standard convection wall panel heaters....not our favourite option given that our Hydro electricity has gone up by almost 25% and that we now import 'coal fired' electricity from Victoria We are thinking that the rooms will really only need to be heated when the kids are doing their homework and just before bed......but who knows....once they turn into moody teenagers they may not ever come out of their rooms. Any advice/experience/other ideas????? 'chelle We have a hand-over date...15/10...but I won't hold my breath! http://people-in-glass-houses.blogspot.com/ Re: Heating options for bedrooms... 2Apr 22, 2008 10:14 pm 'chelle
A work colleague of mine has a rather large house in country Victoria....and I'm not familiar with the terms but I think he has a ducted heat transfer system. I wouldn't say he's fully embraced passive solar design, but he has deep verandahs, double glazing, and a large combustion heater in his lounge. The lounge/dining/kitchen is separated from a rumpus. But he also has 12' foot high ceilings and a Plasma telly.....as I said not fully embracing. He's set up a small (guesstimate 200 mm) inline fan into a ducted line directly above the combustion heater which draws air through the duct into the rumpus when used by the kids. It's one of those type which self close (so there's no leakage when it is not operating) and is mounted inside the duct (you can just see it when you look up through the vent), operated by a wall mounted switch. He also has large ceiling fans in both rooms, which are reversible for winter/summer operation. I was there on a biting cold clear night and both the lounge/kitchen/dining and rumpus were toasty, warmed only by the combustion heater and ducting and these are very large rooms. I can get the some details from him tomorrow if you are interested. PS...Once they are moody teenagers you may not want them to come out of the room.... mmm....donuts Homer Simpson 1956- Links: Site Costs Ready Reckoner | H1 Addiction Medical Advice | Château TDL: The Backyard Re: Heating options for bedrooms... 3Apr 22, 2008 10:17 pm Go with ducting the air from the fireplace / living room area as required.
You do not need much duct volume to move the heat you need, and you only turn the fans that move the air when it is required. ie - arvos and then before you go to bed to take the chill off the room. and as for teenage years. With a properly designed house, the heat loss in these rooms will be minimal. Steve Re: Heating options for bedrooms... 4Apr 22, 2008 10:19 pm to_do_list I can get the some details from him tomorrow if you are interested. Thanks Mike, that would be good. I've got to say that this is my favourite option. I'm also keen on ceiling fans but am yet to convince DH. 'chelle We have a hand-over date...15/10...but I won't hold my breath! http://people-in-glass-houses.blogspot.com/ Re: Heating options for bedrooms... 5Apr 22, 2008 10:22 pm Yak_Chat You do not need much duct volume to move the heat you need My evap and ducted heating are delivered on separate lines (evap was aftermarket) whilst I haven't measured it to by eye it looks like the heating duct is about 1/2 the dia of the cooling (200 to 250 mm)....is that about right? mmm....donuts Homer Simpson 1956- Links: Site Costs Ready Reckoner | H1 Addiction Medical Advice | Château TDL: The Backyard Re: Heating options for bedrooms... 6Apr 22, 2008 10:25 pm Yak_Chat You do not need much duct volume to move the heat you need Thanks Steve when you say not much duct volume, will they fit into a flat roof space. I suppose we could always lower the ceilings a little but only if necessary. I think I'll check out a place that advertises this sort of thing tomorrow. And Hey, if they do turn into moody teenagers....I might not care too much how comfortable their rooms are 'chelle We have a hand-over date...15/10...but I won't hold my breath! http://people-in-glass-houses.blogspot.com/ Re: Heating options for bedrooms... 7Apr 22, 2008 10:28 pm 'chelle I'm also keen on ceiling fans but am yet to convince DH. Looks or effectiveness the issue...because there are some funky ones around: Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ For the hangover the day after: Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ As well as more traditional: Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ mmm....donuts Homer Simpson 1956- Links: Site Costs Ready Reckoner | H1 Addiction Medical Advice | Château TDL: The Backyard Re: Heating options for bedrooms... 8Apr 22, 2008 10:35 pm OK Mike.... now you've really scared him off the idea.
He said that colourful one looked like a parrot had flown into it!!! Looks are the main problem. I think he feels it gives the room a cluttered feel. Thanks anyway 'chelle We have a hand-over date...15/10...but I won't hold my breath! http://people-in-glass-houses.blogspot.com/ Re: Heating options for bedrooms... 9Apr 22, 2008 11:35 pm A parrot in Tassie - now that really global warming -
Yes it takes time to get over - what's to be expected in a eco house, but in reality ceiling fans are the most cost effective instant movers of air. If the house is designed properly, and you have a heat passive source, then the rest is simple. But make sure the fans are high enough so when you're playing with the kids - they don't hit them true story. not mine but heard it many times. Steve Re: Heating options for bedrooms... 10Apr 22, 2008 11:37 pm Yak_Chat But make sure the fans are high enough so when you're playing with the kids - they don't hit them Er....is the Department of Human Services listening...I may have done that...or heard about...oh that's it I "heard" about it.... mmm....donuts Homer Simpson 1956- Links: Site Costs Ready Reckoner | H1 Addiction Medical Advice | Château TDL: The Backyard Re: Heating options for bedrooms... 11Apr 22, 2008 11:56 pm to_do_list Yak_Chat But make sure the fans are high enough so when you're playing with the kids - they don't hit them Er....is the Department of Human Services listening...I may have done that...or heard about...oh that's it I "heard" about it.... Story is ... you HEARD about it Re: Heating options for bedrooms... 12Apr 23, 2008 12:10 am DeeElle to_do_list Yak_Chat But make sure the fans are high enough so when you're playing with the kids - they don't hit them Er....is the Department of Human Services listening...I may have done that...or heard about...oh that's it I "heard" about it.... Story is ... you HEARD about it Of course.... mmm....donuts Homer Simpson 1956- Links: Site Costs Ready Reckoner | H1 Addiction Medical Advice | Château TDL: The Backyard Re: Heating options for bedrooms... 13Apr 23, 2008 8:07 am Heard and saw
Comes part and parcel with living in the tropics- fans go 24x7 in every room to stop the mould growing on the ceilings. It's inevitable that things hit them now and then - kids included. Not nice when it happens. Common one was the broom- typically when the ex was doing her flight each night Opps I meant to say cobweb cleaning Chelle, If you design the ceilings properly you can create a section that traps the air in the lounge room, ie a vertical wall that comes down from the celiing and it will trap the air on a pocket up on the ceiling area. Then have an exhaust fan that can then pass the air through this mini wall / trapped section, and allow the air to pass along the hallway ceiling and then into the rooms via another fan through that wall. That way all you need is to use the natural ceiling line as the air carrier, and fans can push / pull it where and when you want to move it. If you go with ducting, the issue is the need to cross the rafter etc, so that is where the size gets a bit tricky as it need to fit in between things. But I would think a 6 x 3 inch rectangle duct into each room would work. I'm not a ducting expert, but the desing of your house will be that the air temp inside is ALWAYS at a good temp, hence you do not need - LOTS of hot air to warm it up like a typical on/off heating system needs to do- So it is more a case of - moveing some air elsewhere for longer periods of time will enable you to keep the rooms at the right temp. Have you got a ceiling plan yet? What does you architect say? Steve Re: Heating options for bedrooms... 14Apr 23, 2008 9:37 am 'chelle
Just an update...I talked to the work chappie.... He had a heating guy install his...it's an inline fan sitting in a metal box in the ceiling space...rather than at the entrance of the duct. The benefits of using the inline fan are that it operates in the ceiling space and you can't hear it whirring away, whereas if it was at the entrance to the duct it may be annoying. He also had a speed variable (rheostat?) switch installed to control the volume of air being moved across. The duct size is about 200 - 250 mm dia. He found it a pretty economical solution to moving air from the combustion heater, and when he spoke to the builder he was offered the option of ducting into other rooms with zoning valves if necessary - although he wouldn't be able to operate all zones simultaneously - simply not enough warm air. Yak Chat Fortunately "friend's" child had enough self preservation instinct to duck..... I understand father was very apologetic to rather annoyed mother.... mmm....donuts Homer Simpson 1956- Links: Site Costs Ready Reckoner | H1 Addiction Medical Advice | Château TDL: The Backyard Re: Heating options for bedrooms... 15Apr 23, 2008 10:53 am chelle - what about something like Econo Heat:
http://www.econoheatsa.com.au/ A ceramic panel that seems to be very cheap to run. After 4 years - we're in! Re: Heating options for bedrooms... 16Apr 23, 2008 6:17 pm I'm reading with great interest as we've come across a similar dilemma. We will have a wood heater in the centre of the open plan living / dining etc. The ceiling is raked (high a frame type design) so one of the retailers has said that from the plans there isn't enough room for ducting.
So we were thinking of just getting a couple of ceiling fans installed afterwards - they may come in handy in summer anyway, definitely not gettin air-con. But ducting with fans sounds like an idea - they could sit in the walls either side (rather than the ceiling) and thus draw the air trapped by the A shape and into the kids end and our end (living is in the centre of the house) The heater we're looking at is a combination of radiant / convection (Ned Kelly Bushranger for a nice feature in the room), so I figure the house will be warm enough in general, and perhaps we'd use a ceramic (electric) heater in the bathrooms if really needed - similar to the econo heat model, we already have two portable (wall mountable) ones we purhcased from Harvey Norman when in our old house. They are very good! Re: Heating options for bedrooms... 17Apr 23, 2008 9:52 pm Thanks for your replies everyone.
Quote: Have you got a ceiling plan yet? What does you architect say? Haven't got one yet. Will have to talk to the designer with these ideas in mind. Still only at the planning application stage so there is still time to make a few changes if we wish. We've got side tracked a bit in this last week with the design of the driveway and a few last minute issues with the subdivision. Arghhhhh I just want it all over. (I'm hijacking my own topic here) We have just realised that the turning 'circle' we require for fire trucks means that we will have a 5m drop just outside our laundry door.....well not quite but I'm allowed to exagerate. Anyway after looking at the other options this looks like the best option and as our designer said we just have to look at the positives...... - extra parking spots for visitors - somewhere flat for the kids to play - and if we landscape it nicely it might not look too bad (mind you the engineer suggested something like this for the top of the retaining wall Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ You can see why he is and engineer and not a designer (no offence to all the other engineers out there.....but would you suggest that for someone's house???) AND the landscape architect has decided that she thinks the driveway is too steep..... hello??? it has already been approved and you had 2 years on the project before it was approved to raise that concern. Soooo she thinks she should raise this issue with Fire Tas just to make sure and meanwhile we're paying thousands of dollars to have the engineer draw up the plans for the driveway!!!!!! AND while all of this is going on our house plans are sitting in our designers office just waiting to be submitted. Sorry, just needed to vent....It has taken us 3 years to get to this point and it seems so close but yet so far. Please let them all just get their acts together 'chelle We have a hand-over date...15/10...but I won't hold my breath! http://people-in-glass-houses.blogspot.com/ Re: Heating options for bedrooms... 18Apr 23, 2008 10:04 pm I'm jealous...now I want Armco railing..... mmm....donuts Homer Simpson 1956- Links: Site Costs Ready Reckoner | H1 Addiction Medical Advice | Château TDL: The Backyard Re: Heating options for bedrooms... 19Apr 23, 2008 10:06 pm to_do_list I'm jealous...now I want Armco railing..... Yes but you're an engineer! 'chelle We have a hand-over date...15/10...but I won't hold my breath! http://people-in-glass-houses.blogspot.com/ Re: Heating options for bedrooms... 20Apr 23, 2008 10:09 pm Call your driveway engineer NOW.
Tell him to either stop work - or ask him is the gradient OK for the fire trucks. You need to know what the fire departments needs now and if any changes are to be done. Otherwise you going to pay for the engineers work twice. Steve Hi, Have fun, remember bedrooms should feel relaxing and inviting, the last space you see before sleep and the first you see when you wake up. Make sure it makes you… 6 15983 Standard uninsulated double brick has an R value of around 0.7. An insulated standard 90mm stud timber frame can have an R value of around 2.7. Even if you insulate a… 17 11955 Hi there, I'm a conplete newbie to this, but I'm looking to put a floor down in my 6x9m shed. It's currently sitting on a 100mm thick concrete perimeter (dirt floor… 0 6431 |