Browse Forums Heating, Cooling & Insulation 1 Dec 31, 2012 2:41 pm Have been following the threads on this & other forums about continuous gas water heaters, in particular Rinnai 26 as we are thinking of getting one with 2 controllers for future reno. But after reading reviews I’m getting worried - some of the ones at productreview (why won't it let me put the url in??) are terrible, 2.9 from 69 reviews! The main criticisms seem to be : • long delays in hot water reaching the tap, causing water to be wasted or having to be collected in buckets, even with distance as short as 5 meters from heater to bathroom • if flow rate is less than 4 litres/minute heater does not work • water does not heat at low flow rate so you cannot get hot water in short bursts • water saving devices do not work with the heater, although apparently you can take the restrictor out of the shower head to get more litres a minute which will fix this issue. This is not ideal with water shortage scenarios • fluctuations in water temperature from hot to cold while showering - also said to be caused by water saving restrictors, although people have changed the shower head with no effect • conflicting statements re adjusting water temp - some say that theirs cannot be adjusted above the default 50c, even using a controller. Others say the temp can be increased but only if you have a temperature control panel purchased separately. Have found the answer to this I think - the online manual says the factory preset max temp of 60c can be increased by an authorised person. The people who cannot change their temp must have a ‘50c Compliant’ model • lowest temp is 38c so you can’t have a lukewarm shower in hot weather as if you turn down the hot tap the water heater stops heating at low flow rate & water comes out cold • the warranty does not cover common problems • bad Rinnai after sales support • 7 year life span, although some people say they have had for 15 years • Some people say their gas bills have increased After reading all this I have some questions hopefully someone who has had a Rinnai 26 can answer. We have a small house inner west Sydney with one bathroom, only 2 adults and want to get rid of the large gas storage unit with the renovation so I suppose I want to be persuaded Rinnai 26 is a good idea! *First, can anyone with experience comment on these criticisms, putting aside any owner loyalty? *Second, hot water delay - we would have about 27m from the gas meter in the front garden to where the new heater would be at the back of the kitchen Then there would be about 12m from the kitchen heater back to the bathroom With this distance would there be a long delay getting hot water to the bathroom? We don’t want to use more energy and money in buying the pre-heating system for the pipes. At the moment we have 7m from the gas storage heater to the kitchen and collect about a bucket of cold water before the hot comes through. We can cope with this amount of delay in the shower, just put a bucket in. But multiple buckets would be a pain. *The fluctuating temperature is a concern - especially if Rinnai support is bad & it’s not covered by the warranty. The warranty does not cover water supply or gas supply problems. Fluctuating temps are not mentioned in the troubleshooting part, so if this problem is caused by the water supply, has anyone experienced it and had it fixed? *There would have to be new ¾” or 1” gas pipes (not sure which) from the gas meter to the water heater - about 27m. Any idea how much this would cost? *Would 2 water heaters, one for the bathroom & one for the kitchen (ie two Rinnai 16) be overkill? *Does anyone find it annoying that you can’t get hot water in short bursts in the kitchen (if so)? *Does anyone regret changing from gas water storage to continuous flow? *If using gas previously, have your bills decreased? thanks, I’m posting this in the forums I found the original info, hope we can get some responses Re: Rinnai 26 questions 2Dec 31, 2012 9:04 pm We have one in the rental we are in which is a big house no problems at all. A lot of it depends on the water pressure in your area I suppose. PPA 30/6/12, Land 28/06/12, Contract 7/9/12, Valuation 11/9/12, Prestart 13/9/12, Settlement 18/10/12, Building Permit Issued 18/10/12, Footings 30/10/11, Slab 31/10/11 Re: Rinnai 26 questions 3Dec 31, 2012 9:55 pm Have answered some of your questions in blue: lenarufus • lowest temp is 38c so you can’t have a lukewarm shower in hot weather as if you turn down the hot tap the water heater stops heating at low flow rate & water comes out cold You just need to turn on the cold tap a little if you want it cooler • 7 year life span, although some people say they have had for 15 years Ours was 10 years old when we sold *Second, hot water delay - we would have about 27m from the gas meter in the front garden to where the new heater would be at the back of the kitchen Our house was 18 metres long with the HWS at one end and the ensuite at the other. Yes, there was a delay but no different to the storage unit that we had prior *The fluctuating temperature is a concern - especially if Rinnai support is bad & it’s not covered by the warranty. The warranty does not cover water supply or gas supply problems. Fluctuating temps are not mentioned in the troubleshooting part, so if this problem is caused by the water supply, has anyone experienced it and had it fixed? We never had fluctuating temp problems. If someone turned on a tap elsewhere in the house the flow dropped slightly but the temp stayed the same *There would have to be new ¾” or 1” gas pipes (not sure which) from the gas meter to the water heater - about 27m. Any idea how much this would cost? I think we had 1" gas pipes *Does anyone find it annoying that you can’t get hot water in short bursts in the kitchen (if so)? Wasn't really a problem *Does anyone regret changing from gas water storage to continuous flow? Absolutely not. Wish we had the same set up here (can't have the controllers as we have a solar panel with gas boost *If using gas previously, have your bills decreased? Don't think they changed much either way Re: Rinnai 26 questions 4Dec 31, 2012 11:08 pm We're on our second R26 and couldn't be happier, the first one we installed over 10 years ago and it was still going strong when we sold that property, never had any problems with it at all. We recently replaced the electric system in our current properety for another R26, we have it feeding the kitchen, bathroom and an upstairs ensuit without a problem, yes there is a delay but it's a small price to pay for lower energy consumption, we did have to put in an inch gas feed and upgrade the gas meter. The only downfall I see, although not really an issue is the slight reduction in water pressure compared to the electric system, I prefer my shower with a harder water pressure....but that's just me.. Re: Rinnai 26 questions 5Jan 01, 2013 3:24 pm Have had the Rinnai enviro 26 for 12 months now as part of a major renno. We have not experienced any of the issues mentioned, and love the unit.....love? Well my wallet does, it is so efficient our gas bill over the summer months drops to near loose change. If you intend to stay where you are the extra dollars are worth it. Re: Rinnai 26 questions 7Jan 02, 2013 11:41 am We had one in our last build, loved it, put the enviro 26 in this build and so far it is just as great. we have a distance to our ensuite and there is a wait for hot water but i don't consider it to be bad/long. yet to see a bill but speaking for the last build we definately had much cheaper bills than any of our friends and family. can't answers all your concerns but we certainly haven't found any problems with the system. would highly recommend. Re: Rinnai 26 questions 8Jan 15, 2013 9:32 pm We had a Rinnai 20 on our last build in 1997 and it was still going strong when we sold in 2010. On our new build we got a Rinnai 26 on 1 side of the house for the kitchen, laundry and upstairs bathroom as they are reasonably close. On the other side of the house we got a Rinnai 16 for the ensuite. This was to prevent deadwater having to travel ffrom one side of the house to the other. You can open them up and adjust them via jumper switches to get an extra couple of degrees so that the temperature delivered out the tap is what you ordered on the controller. ie if you change the controller to 42 and there is a 3 degree drop in the pipes you can set it via jumper switches and it will heat it to 45 so that it is 42 when it comes out the shower. We have never had problems with temperature variations. The big problem with delay of hot water is with the water flow restricting taps. The one to our kitchen takes forever with the restrict flow tap. The one in our outdorr kitchen sink with no restrict flow tap happens really quick and it is further from the HWS. We love having the controllers and wouldn't live without them. We had a gas storage at our rental and gas bills were 50% higher than they are here. Why pay for gas to heat the water to 50 to 60 degrees when you only need 42 in the shower! Slab Down: 2/6/11 Moved in 13/3/2012 Current Status : Waiting for the garden to grow. My build thread : viewtopic.php?f=31&t=47031 Re: Rinnai 26 questions 9Jan 20, 2013 8:29 am In relation to the time it takes for hot water to reach far taps, Rennai have a pre-heat option. This requires extra hardware at the heater end and a pipe from the furtherest tap back to the heater. The idea is you press pre-heat, the pre-heat unit drawers water from the furtherest tap and feeds that into the heater. When your ready you turn on the tap and the hot water is ready and waiting. I have had a Rinnai for 12 years with no issues what so ever (but better watch this 15 year life cycle thing though). Mine originally didn't have controllers so is hard set to 50'c. I added controllers later which was a good thing. The trick with showers etc is to set the temp right and to try not to use the cold tap. That way you are not overheating the water and then cooling, which clearly costs money. I don't have a pre-heater though so do find it annoying the time the ensuite takes to get going, but the other rooms are on par with a tank system. Never been too worried about the cost of it. Now whilst I have no doubt it uses more gas when running compared to a tank system, I reckon overall it is using less. My old mum has a combo system of a solar tank and a Rinnai as a booster. Now that is very efficient. Re: Rinnai 26 questions 10Jan 20, 2013 9:35 am Crow On our new build we got a Rinnai 26 on 1 side of the house for the kitchen, laundry and upstairs bathroom as they are reasonably close. On the other side of the house we got a Rinnai 16 for the ensuite. This was to prevent deadwater having to travel ffrom one side of the house to the other. The big problem with delay of hot water is with the water flow restricting taps. The one to our kitchen takes forever with the restrict flow tap. The one in our outdorr kitchen sink with no restrict flow tap happens really quick and it is further from the HWS. I was wondering if it would be feasible to do the same - have 2 Rinnai 16s instead of 1 Rinnai 26. Not sure what the difference in cost would be though, might be prohibitive. We will have 12m between the taps in the kitchen and those in the bathroom so I thought a HWS beside both would cut down the delay. But then you suggest that the distance from the HWS isn't what causes the delay ..?? Re: Rinnai 26 questions 11Jan 20, 2013 9:39 am AJW I don't have a pre-heater though so do find it annoying the time the ensuite takes to get going, but the other rooms are on par with a tank system. Can you tell me the distances between the HWS and the ensuite and other rooms? Re: Rinnai 26 questions 12Jan 20, 2013 10:14 am lenarufus I was wondering if it would be feasible to do the same - have 2 Rinnai 16s instead of 1 Rinnai 26. Not sure what the difference in cost would be though, might be prohibitive. We will have 12m between the taps in the kitchen and those in the bathroom so I thought a HWS beside both would cut down the delay. But then you suggest that the distance from the HWS isn't what causes the delay ..?? The distance from the HWS causes the delay but whether the tap is water flow restricting or not affects the length of the delay. eg if there is 2 litres of water in the pipe between the HWS and the tap and the tap lets through 4 litres per minute then the delay is 30 seconds. If the tap lets through 12 litres per minute then the delay is 10 seconds. The distance from the HWS to the tap determines how much water is wasted each time as that is the water that has cooled in the pipe that has to be pushed out by the newly created instantaneous hot water. The water flow capacity of the tap determines how long the delay is. Our Rinnai 16 was about $800 I think Slab Down: 2/6/11 Moved in 13/3/2012 Current Status : Waiting for the garden to grow. My build thread : viewtopic.php?f=31&t=47031 Re: Rinnai 26 questions 13Jan 20, 2013 11:54 am lenarufus Crow On our new build we got a Rinnai 26 on 1 side of the house for the kitchen, laundry and upstairs bathroom as they are reasonably close. On the other side of the house we got a Rinnai 16 for the ensuite. This was to prevent deadwater having to travel ffrom one side of the house to the other. The big problem with delay of hot water is with the water flow restricting taps. The one to our kitchen takes forever with the restrict flow tap. The one in our outdorr kitchen sink with no restrict flow tap happens really quick and it is further from the HWS. I was wondering if it would be feasible to do the same - have 2 Rinnai 16s instead of 1 Rinnai 26. Not sure what the difference in cost would be though, might be prohibitive. We will have 12m between the taps in the kitchen and those in the bathroom so I thought a HWS beside both would cut down the delay. But then you suggest that the distance from the HWS isn't what causes the delay ..?? Heater to bath tab, handbasin and shower around 5m, delay to hot around 5 seconds, you can feel it start to get warm after around 2-3. Heater to laundry around 7m, still seems around 5 seconds to hot. With these I don't think it could realistically be any quicker due to the time it takes for the heater to detect flow and fire up. Heater to kicthen around 10m, hot in around 10 seconds. Heater to ensuite around 20m, hot in around 20 seconds. So I guess based on my place it takes around one second per metre to get hot. Your idea of two units would work, so too would the pre-heat system, provided you have access to run an extra pipe from the furthermost tap back to the heater. Personally, considering your layout (study/work desks in bedrooms), I don't think you have any other option but to leave NW windows and make them as big as possible e.g.… 7 10473 We had this happen to us last year and got charged a variation. Try and give away as much as you can that is usable to charity otherwise if you are in Sydney I have a… 1 4502 Not sure what council area you are in. Some LGA's allow zero lot retaining walls. 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