Browse Forums Heating, Cooling & Insulation 1 Mar 24, 2011 2:43 pm Hi, I am building a 2 storey house in Perth and was going to go with an Actron ESP+ SRV230E/SRD230C with 8 zones. The builder has come back with a quote for a Rheem RGAA023TAI with 6 zones that is $1500 cheaper. Has anyone here used Rheem air conditioners? How do they compare to the Actron? I have never heard of them before. Cheers Re: Rheem Air Conditioning - Anyone Use Them? 2Mar 25, 2011 7:30 am Dilbert_Perth Hi, I am building a 2 storey house in Perth and was going to go with an Actron ESP+ SRV230E/SRD230C with 8 zones. The builder has come back with a quote for a Rheem RGAA023TAI with 6 zones that is $1500 cheaper. Has anyone here used Rheem air conditioners? How do they compare to the Actron? I have never heard of them before. Cheers Hi, This isn't really an "apples to apples" comparison, To a point there a similarities - I think it's safe to presume, like Actron, the Rheem digitial scroll compressor has been sourced from Copeland - since they have an exclusive world wide patent, or you'll at least hope it's a Copeland and not some clone? So far so similar. Then I know Actron use top quality components, fans from Germany etc I don't know if Rheem do that? BUT the ESP+ has a variable speed internal motor that runs from about 200 l/s to 1200 l/s whereas the Rheem 23TAI runs a more traditional fixed Lo to Hi between 1100 and 1480 l/s meaning the Rheem will require more zones to be open at any given time, meaning there'll be a bigger load on the compressor. Meaning bigger power bills. To compare prices compare to the ESP not the ESP+. Rheem purchased Accent-Air in 2007 and in turn it looks like and I've heard, Accent was form by break away employees from Actron in the 90s, their units look so similar it isn't even funny. But since Actron have been running for about 30 years I get the feeling they're the more solid and stable company. But that said, I have an ESP+, which is able to cool just one or two zones - this saves a lot on power! Personally it's a no brainer. Actron for the win. Re: Rheem Air Conditioning - Anyone Use Them? 3Mar 25, 2011 3:27 pm Thanks for the detailed responsed, much appreciated! It has confirmed what I was thinking. All I need to do now is decide if I want to upgrade from the + to the ultima! Re: Rheem Air Conditioning - Anyone Use Them? 4Mar 25, 2011 9:21 pm Any unit that can vary both the compressor output (inverter or digital scroll) AND airflow wins in my book. This has always been an issue where the compressor can ramp down to 10% capacity but the airflow has a minimum way exceeding 10% - too much air if you shut down zones (going to bed etc) Work out the capacity to run your 'night' zoning (probably just your bedrooms) and work out the airflow to run just that - if this exceeds the units minimum airflow capacity then go ESP+ I say You get what you pay for! Re: Rheem Air Conditioning - Anyone Use Them? 5Mar 26, 2011 4:52 pm Dilbert_Perth Thanks for the detailed responsed, much appreciated! It has confirmed what I was thinking. All I need to do now is decide if I want to upgrade from the + to the ultima! The ESP versus ESP+ versus Ultima question depends on your house design, usage patterns and budget. They're all good and there's no right or wrong answer so I can only speak from my own experience. I say the ESP because it's good too,. If you always have two or three zones on, like I do then having the ESP+ or Ultima makes little difference. The "+" and Ultima only come into their own if you want to run as few as one or maybe two zones. Only they can scale that low, but I very rarely do that, only if I'm working from home on my laptop and decide on some random room/zone. Otherwise with a wife and 3 kids home, having just one zone on is never going to happen. What about ESP+ vs Ultima? The difference is the Ultima has a temp sensor in each zone and lets people in that zone set their own temperature. But in practice my 2 daughters never want the air on on their room and the general setting of 23 or 23.5 is good for everyone so having individual zone temperatures would've been pointless. And if the girls decide their rooms are a bit too warm they're happy to turn their zone on for a few minutes and then turn it off. Simple. They are only young and they can understand on and off, having any more controls would just confuse everyone. ALSO I am glad we have 8 zone and two controllers. -Two controllers, one upstairs one downstairs - not only convenient but it helps the air-con get a better idea of temperature. -8 zones - because it reduces family brawls. Each bedroom has its own zone so each child (3) can decide if they want air or not. Otherwise my son (Mr muscles) would've fried, my little princes would've been frozen and Miss Middle would be setting us all straight! No thanks. This way they can just turn their zone on or off - job well done Summary. -In hindsight the ESP would've worked just fine for me. -I'm happy I have the ESP+ for the rare times I want just one zone on. Just a bit more flexibility. But one day when the kids all leave having one zone on might be more common than it is now? -I can't say I wish I had the Ultima, though if money is not a problem then, who knows why not? Rather than the Ultima vs ESP+ maybe consider more zones, definitely have 2 controllers and maybe consider the "soft compressor start" option (about $1k) if your neighbours are touchy about air con starts. Sometimes there is a bit of a thud when the ESP+ starts but then it's business as usual. Oh, and also make sure you don't get it placed near bedrooms, mine is placed well, on a wall with only utility windows so we cannot hear any air-con but no matter what the brand if you place it near bedrooms or living areas they might be issues. Then again ours is so powerful we never need it on at night, it just needs to be on for about 30 or 60 minutes in the evening, maybe 90 on the super hot days we had and the job is pretty well done. I hope I didn't rant too much, but I hope that helps Cheers. Re: Rheem Air Conditioning - Anyone Use Them? 6Mar 27, 2011 2:46 pm A.Ryder .....What about ESP+ vs Ultima? The difference is the Ultima has a temp sensor in each zone and lets people in that zone set their own temperature....... How does that actually work ?? I would of thought that the air coming from the fan-coil was a "given" temperature, at the end of the day either (in any brand / technology at all) the compressor is running or it isn't. If it is running then it is putting out a "fixed" quantity of refrigerant liquid / minute, which when expanded in the fan-coil will give a (set) temperature of fan-coil output air. So (for a given range of parameters) let's say the fan-coil output temperature flow is 20 degrees, how can one room set 20 degrees and another set at (say) 25 degrees ? In (some) aircraft this is solved by having the airconditioning pack output temperature set to the temperature requirements of the "coolest zone", in this example 20 degrees, and then adding "Trim Air" to heat the 20 degree air to 25 degrees for the 25 degree-demand zone. Not sure if residential airconditioners do something like this ?? If not, how do they have multiple-temperature zones ? Thanks, P_D (Yes, I *KNOW* all about inverter and other variable-output systems, but at the end of the day, while "x" may vary, they all send one "x" quantity of refrigerant to one fan-coil....) . Block settled 07 June 2011 Our little piece of the Interwebs on HomeOne....... viewtopic.php?f=31&t=48577&start=0 Re: Rheem Air Conditioning - Anyone Use Them? 7Mar 28, 2011 2:41 pm Thanks A.Ryder, you really know your stuff ! I would like to go with the ESP+ and save some $, I have included a zone controller upstairs as well, so this should help. I too am interested in how the unit knows what the temperature is in the zone you are cooling when it is only running a couple of zones. Is the temperature sensor in the return air or controller itself? Our house is 2 storey with living areas downstairs and 3x bedrooms up stairs. Re: Rheem Air Conditioning - Anyone Use Them? 8Mar 29, 2011 10:07 am Pepsi_Drinker A.Ryder .....What about ESP+ vs Ultima? The difference is the Ultima has a temp sensor in each zone and lets people in that zone set their own temperature....... How does that actually work ?? I would of thought that the air coming from the fan-coil was a "given" temperature, at the end of the day either (in any brand / technology at all) the compressor is running or it isn't. If it is running then it is putting out a "fixed" quantity of refrigerant liquid / minute, which when expanded in the fan-coil will give a (set) temperature of fan-coil output air. So (for a given range of parameters) let's say the fan-coil output temperature flow is 20 degrees, how can one room set 20 degrees and another set at (say) 25 degrees ? In (some) aircraft this is solved by having the airconditioning pack output temperature set to the temperature requirements of the "coolest zone", in this example 20 degrees, and then adding "Trim Air" to heat the 20 degree air to 25 degrees for the 25 degree-demand zone. Not sure if residential airconditioners do something like this ?? If not, how do they have multiple-temperature zones ? Thanks, P_D (Yes, I *KNOW* all about inverter and other variable-output systems, but at the end of the day, while "x" may vary, they all send one "x" quantity of refrigerant to one fan-coil....) Hi P_D, I don't actually have an Ultima so I'm not able to explore all the intricacies (I have an engineering background, so knowing me I would definitely have dug deeper...) but I wondered about the same question myself so at the time asked my air-tech: he says "All it has is an extra temp sensor for each zone, with a separate controller for that zone, and then all it does is open and shut the zone barrel, and it'll end up being fully open or fully closed and that's it..." So I don't believe you can have all the convoluted examples, like one room at 23 (cooling) and another at 27 (heating). I think if you set the main controller to 20 but then some zone to 25C then that zone will simply have its zone barrel closed all the time and if the ambient temp is 24 it simply wont' reach it's target (of 25). At any rate, I installed post-build so getting all that extra cabling in was not going to happen and I figured if anyone isn't happy with the temp in their zone they can just get off the backside and turn their zone on or off. This has worked well us and most people are happy with about 23 OR they just prefer no air-con at all so I'm happy enough with the ESP+, I dont' miss the Ultima Cheers. Re: Rheem Air Conditioning - Anyone Use Them? 9Mar 29, 2011 10:20 am Dilbert_Perth Thanks A.Ryder, you really know your stuff ! I would like to go with the ESP+ and save some $, I have included a zone controller upstairs as well, so this should help. I too am interested in how the unit knows what the temperature is in the zone you are cooling when it is only running a couple of zones. Is the temperature sensor in the return air or controller itself? Our house is 2 storey with living areas downstairs and 3x bedrooms up stairs. Having two controllers in a 2 storey house is a great idea. Heat rises so a reading upstairs is definitely good to have. How does the ESP/ESP+ know what temp is in the far away zones? It doesn't. So yes it won't get the temperature reading perfectly correct, and yes the Ultima can form a more precise calculation. Do I miss that. No. With the ESP/ESP+ placing the 2 controllers in good locations which are indicative of the temp on that floor is all that's required. I mean you wouldn't put one in the kitchen near the stove or in some dark dingy corner etc ... a good air-tech will now. Mine are near the base of the stairs at the ground level and near the top of the stair upstairs. ZONES? Sounds like you have one zone for the master room (good) but the other rooms are all on one zone? Most installers recommend that to me BUT I'm very glad I have each room separately zoned. I have a son (Mr Muscles) who needs the air on all the time, a daughter (Miss Skin-and-Bones), never wants it or she'll turn purple (literally) and another daughter (Miss Too-Worried-About-The-Environment) - they should only cost about $150-200 per zone so I reckon it's worse considering then again your situation is different so ... But definitely get 2 controllers. Cheers Re: Rheem Air Conditioning - Anyone Use Them? 10Apr 18, 2011 3:33 pm A.Ryder Pepsi_Drinker A.Ryder .....What about ESP+ vs Ultima? The difference is the Ultima has a temp sensor in each zone and lets people in that zone set their own temperature....... How does that actually work ?? I would of thought that the air coming from the fan-coil was a "given" temperature, at the end of the day either (in any brand / technology at all) the compressor is running or it isn't. If it is running then it is putting out a "fixed" quantity of refrigerant liquid / minute, which when expanded in the fan-coil will give a (set) temperature of fan-coil output air. So (for a given range of parameters) let's say the fan-coil output temperature flow is 20 degrees, how can one room set 20 degrees and another set at (say) 25 degrees ? In (some) aircraft this is solved by having the airconditioning pack output temperature set to the temperature requirements of the "coolest zone", in this example 20 degrees, and then adding "Trim Air" to heat the 20 degree air to 25 degrees for the 25 degree-demand zone. Not sure if residential airconditioners do something like this ?? If not, how do they have multiple-temperature zones ? Thanks, P_D (Yes, I *KNOW* all about inverter and other variable-output systems, but at the end of the day, while "x" may vary, they all send one "x" quantity of refrigerant to one fan-coil....) Hi P_D, I don't actually have an Ultima so I'm not able to explore all the intricacies (I have an engineering background, so knowing me I would definitely have dug deeper...) but I wondered about the same question myself so at the time asked my air-tech: he says "All it has is an extra temp sensor for each zone, with a separate controller for that zone, and then all it does is open and shut the zone barrel, and it'll end up being fully open or fully closed and that's it..." So I don't believe you can have all the convoluted examples, like one room at 23 (cooling) and another at 27 (heating). I think if you set the main controller to 20 but then some zone to 25C then that zone will simply have its zone barrel closed all the time and if the ambient temp is 24 it simply wont' reach it's target (of 25). At any rate, I installed post-build so getting all that extra cabling in was not going to happen and I figured if anyone isn't happy with the temp in their zone they can just get off the backside and turn their zone on or off. This has worked well us and most people are happy with about 23 OR they just prefer no air-con at all so I'm happy enough with the ESP+, I dont' miss the Ultima Cheers. Hi A.Ryder, I was wondering how hard it was to install post build. Did you get your builder to do the ducting for downstairs? I've heard that it is quite hard to do the ducting downstairs following handover.. Cheers Skayne Anybody know any good and reasonably priced Air conditioning contractors/companies that could install a ducted air conditioning system in the Central Coast NSW for a small… 0 8994 I haven’t. But have a Lowe Design home. Not only did I find Matt Lowe patronising and a bully, but the home is NOT TO CODE. I have water coming through the bricks… 1 14364 Hi everyone. 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