Browse Forums Heating, Cooling & Insulation 1 Mar 06, 2010 10:45 pm Hubby and I are debating, so I'll give you the short version and would appreciate your advice Option 1: Refrigerated Aircon and Gas Ducted Heating $14k installed through company - Brivis Option 2: Refrigerated Aircon and Electric Heating Approx $6k, self installed - Mitsubishi Possiby using the saved money for solar panels What option would you chose, and why? Custom European Cabinets - Melbourne Kitchen Specialist PM for business details as website currently being updated! Our Crazy Owner Builder Journey! Re: Heating Option - Electric vs Gas 2Mar 07, 2010 12:36 pm For < 15K you could have a zoned ducted 18kW RCAC that does both and conditions around 180 m2. Do you mean evap AC? Gas heating is generally always cheaper than electric heating or even RCAC heating. Re: Heating Option - Electric vs Gas 3Mar 07, 2010 1:25 pm confused, sorry dymonite! Ill try and explain better We wanted refrigerated aircon, so were getting quotes on that combined with gas ducted heating. Since then, our electrician said he could get us a mitsubishi system which we could install ourselves, but it has electric heating. He just put one in his house, and it works fine BUT they dont use the heating component of it as they have gas ducted heating also. Is this making sense? So now hubby and I are debating whether to get refrigerated aircon/gas ducted and pay more upfront but have less running costs OR get the system the electrician is talking about which is less upfront but more in running costs but possibly have the option of using the money "saved" to get solar panels to offset in the increase in electricity The system the elctrician is talking about is definately not evap.... not sure what RCAC is though? Im pretty sure he said refrigerated. The quote we got for Brivis Option 1 includes 4 zones. And apparently 18kw is underpowered for our house Custom European Cabinets - Melbourne Kitchen Specialist PM for business details as website currently being updated! Our Crazy Owner Builder Journey! Re: Heating Option - Electric vs Gas 4Mar 07, 2010 1:30 pm But for 14K alone you could get reverse cycled AC not just cooling AC. RC means that it can cool and heat just by reversing the pump. You achieve all your HVAC needs with one unit. It is rare nowadays for an AC to not have both functions. Re: Heating Option - Electric vs Gas 6Mar 07, 2010 1:38 pm Refrigerative AC is the system by which cooling is achieved. It works like a standard fridge using a compression cycle. Refrigerant is circulated and by altering the pressure, it can either absorb or release heat. This is in contrast to evaporative cooling where air is passed over a wet pad. The evaporation of moisture cools the air by absorbing the latent heat contained in it from the change in phase of the water. In the past most refrigerative ACs could only cool. In the last 20-30 years, the cycle can be reversed (reverse cycle) to either pull heat out of a room and dump it outside or vice versa. The heating cycle is usually a little less efficient in energy use. Re: Heating Option - Electric vs Gas 7Mar 07, 2010 1:42 pm The Brivis Ice system adds to the heater which allows you to cool.... so is this then a reverse cycle? ETA: Ignore me. Found some info Im reading through. But anyways, back to the original q - gas or electric heating considering the costs to both install and run? Custom European Cabinets - Melbourne Kitchen Specialist PM for business details as website currently being updated! Our Crazy Owner Builder Journey! Re: Heating Option - Electric vs Gas 8Mar 07, 2010 3:14 pm It appears that the Brivis unit is a refrigerative AC add-on that only cools. It is a marketing solution by a company that predominantly sells gas heaters for people who also want cooling. Ducts may not be compatible. Re: Heating Option - Electric vs Gas 9Mar 07, 2010 4:10 pm It's a new install, so Im assuming they would use ducts which would be sufficient for both heating and cooling Custom European Cabinets - Melbourne Kitchen Specialist PM for business details as website currently being updated! Our Crazy Owner Builder Journey! Re: Heating Option - Electric vs Gas 10Mar 07, 2010 6:07 pm Hi Bam, 6k sounds to cheap. Do you know the model number etc?? My guess is that the heating side can not be compared with the brivis because the brivis heater can do the whole house however the mitsibishi will only do half the house with the heating. ie i think the KW for heating will be less on the heating side of the mitsibishi. However the cooling may be similar for the two. Also who would be designing the duct work for you.?? as this will be very important to get right. Also Bam what size units did you get quoted on for the brivis. Either way if you try hard enough you should be able to have and 18kwatt 3phase cooling with 30kwatt heating (five star) installed for a little over $12k. Re: Heating Option - Electric vs Gas 11Mar 07, 2010 7:27 pm Hey borg Im not sure how the heating compares - I havent researched it, I just know what hubby has said. Apparently the price is trade price for the unit. Im not keen on electric heating, so Im doing my best to find things to persuade him its a no go lol. As for the duct work.... I guess hubby and the elctrician?? Who knows! The brivis was 20kw cooling, 30kw heating. We went to 3 places, and only ONE decided to get back to us with a quote. Its been a month. (Other than that first ridiculous quote I told you about ages ago). So Ill need to get more quotes Custom European Cabinets - Melbourne Kitchen Specialist PM for business details as website currently being updated! Our Crazy Owner Builder Journey! Re: Heating Option - Electric vs Gas 12Mar 07, 2010 7:34 pm hmm bam, dont give up keep looking. Re comparin, if you really want why dont you by the brivis in kit form also. it will probably shave to off 3-4k off the price. Also consider dropping down to 18watt if your happy zone. Remeber there is a minimum area you have open to use the bigger ones. The downside of the brivis units there are not inverter and you either have them on or off and nothin in between. Also ig you are just going to zone off then the bigger unit can opperate inefficiently if it keeps turning on and off quickly. try J and S heating in campberfield. Also just a note, 6K definately sounds to cheap even in kit form. Just check the output power before even contemplating it. Re: Heating Option - Electric vs Gas 13Mar 07, 2010 7:36 pm The best solution is air conditioning for both heating and cooling - so called reverse cycle air conditioning. It's the only way to get more heating/cooling power than the electric power you put into it. It's basically a form of solar energy. Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Heating Option - Electric vs Gas 15Mar 07, 2010 8:15 pm My MIL has ducted reverse cycle heating and cooling, all electric. Her winter bills are in excess of $600 so it's very expensive. IMO I would definitely get gas ducted heating which is a lot cheaper. We have 2 splits for a/c which cool a 35 sq house comfortably and cost $5k incl installation. Otherwise, I would suggest the gas heating with the add on cooling option. Blog: http://bluemistkids.blogspot.com "Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, and professionals built the Titanic." Re: Heating Option - Electric vs Gas 16Mar 07, 2010 9:14 pm Borg, the 20kw we got quoted on was zoned and they said we needed to have a common zone. He made our common zone the Entry/Family/Dining and Bedroom 2 (Baby room), a seperate zone for the Master bedroom and study, another zone for bedrooms 3 and 4 and a zone for the HT. Im not sure about this zoning stuff - as the common zone needs to be on for another zone to be on, it means Id have to cool/heat the Entry/Family/Dining during the night if I want them bedrooms on which seems a little pointless? Is J and S in Tullamarine? Thats all I can find Hels, $600! Whoa....! So much to think of! Custom European Cabinets - Melbourne Kitchen Specialist PM for business details as website currently being updated! Our Crazy Owner Builder Journey! Re: Heating Option - Electric vs Gas 17Mar 07, 2010 10:36 pm Have you considered gas heating + evaporative cooling? Evaporative cooling should work most of the time in a Melbourne summer. It only struggles when humidity > 80%. It is far cheaper to run - perhaps a fifth of RCAC. As regards to RCAC cooling approximate calculations required capacity is about 0.15kW/m2 of conditioned space. Re: Heating Option - Electric vs Gas 18Mar 08, 2010 6:52 am Hels We have 2 splits for a/c which cool a 35 sq house comfortably and cost $5k incl installation. Otherwise, I would suggest the gas heating with the add on cooling option. Hi Bam Have you looked at Hydronic Heating? We have spent a winter with this source of heating and it is the best thing we put in the house (even better than my kitchen which I love ) Like Hels, we just have 2 split systems for cooling and that is all with need. Mrs B Re: Heating Option - Electric vs Gas 19Mar 08, 2010 8:17 am sorry bam, yeah thats the one. If you get a smaller aircond you can have a small comman point perhaps like in my case I just have the bathrooms. Then I can have either the bedrooms or living area on. The ironany of your system is that its bigger however need to have larger area open hence it is probably not going to work as well. Re: Heating Option - Electric vs Gas 20Mar 08, 2010 11:45 am Dymonite, we currently have evap and it is alright most times but the number of humid days is increasing and I dont tolerate hot days very we at all. Mrs B, I have looked in to hydronic, but we decided not to use it... cant remember why - but there were reasons lol I understand what you're saying borg - but we wanted to make sure we could have the majority of the house zones on at the one time if needed so that limited us to a bigger unit. Ill talk to a few places though and contact J and S Custom European Cabinets - Melbourne Kitchen Specialist PM for business details as website currently being updated! Our Crazy Owner Builder Journey! Hi, I'd like some advice on the best option please on the estimate options we've been provided from our builder. 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