Use of Structural Insulated Panels

Thanks Builda
Do you know how Bondor InsulWall deals with it? Their panel appears to be a complete wall, outer cladding right through to inner plaster?

The Bondor panel can be direct acrylic rendered to the outside and as there is nothing to actually rot and grow mould the vapour barrier is a bit superfluous. If you were cladding it with timber then I would still put a barrier in behind it but the cheapest option for the bondor is to just render it. Hope this helps.

Thanks again Builda!

So does that mean that with the Bondor Insulwall panel with the Dulux Acutex or equivelant you don't need a vapour barrier? Wouldn't that mean that the inside wall is more prone to condensation than a normal cavity wall with vapour barrier?

Are they all not suitable for multiple level construction? The SIPS website has demos of houses going up that are 2-story.

The plywood SIPS are OK for multi-storey so long as you have the engineering to back it up. At this stage the insulliving panel is not really suitable but this may change as they develop the panels to include more structural components instead of just insulation.

Also, the bondor system does not seem more prone to condensation on the internal wall due to the very effective insulation between the internal and external steel cladding.

We built our 2 storey house here in the UK 4 years ago with SIPs for the walls and found them to be a great system. 2 of us assembled the whole shell including 1st floor joists and boarding in just 9 days with no prior experience.
Our SIPs are OSB face both sides with a 100mm Polyeurethane core, any supportive beams are Glulam.
Inside we battened out to create a cavity for cabling/plumbing before plasterboarding the whole lot.
Outside has a membrane then battens supporting a brick tile cladding system so looks like brickwork but isn't !
We move over to Perth later this year and would love to self build (owner build) again using SIPs but most companies in Australia seem to only do EPS cores which I am not keen on and not as good as PU in my mind - anyone know different or shall I set up a factory myself ??

You are right, there are a few systems available with various face panels eg: MgO, Steel, OSB however to my knowledge they are all EPS and this appears to be a standard not just here but in the US and Europe as well. The EPS is approved due to being non-toxic and from what I am safe for people with allergies.

We are in the process of finishing off an OSB SIPS house in Melbourne and with all the hot weather lately I am astounded at how thermally comfortable the upstairs rooms are already.

We are also looking to use a new metal clad system that has been engineered to do two storey and these are far more cost effective than all the OSB and MgO panels on the market and just as thermally effective.

What's this product you're planning to use Builda?

The product is really an integrated system that has been put together by a builder/developer colleague of mine in Qld.

I was up there 18 months ago and framed one of these houses for him to learn how it works and he has since developed the systems further to create a fully prefabricated kit that includes the windows and roof with all the cut outs pre-done in the factory. The usual way of doing the metal systems is to cut on site but I found that very time consuming and fairly dangerous in many ways as well.

He has built a few dozen homes in Qld using it and has numerous National and International contracts to supply prefabs (thousands of them) so it is still only for his own use as he has not marketed it to the general public as yet. The main reason is that he has not infrastructure of contractors etc to be able to erect the homes properly and this is a major problem for some of the panel manufacturers as the quality of the erection can often leave a lot to be desired when using untrained or unskilled site crew.

Notwithstanding, I am able to access the system through him and have 3 projects planned in Melbourne at the moment using it. If you (or anyone else that is interested) wants to PM me your details then I can send you some basic info or at least have a chat on the phone about it.

Hi Builda, sent you a PM.

Hi Chardy, sent YOU a pm

Hi all,
Wanting to build an extension to my home in Perth using SIPS but have just run the concept past my home insurer and they say a building made of SIPS is "not insurable". Amyone had any issues insuring a building built of SIPs?
Thanks.
Bronwyn

This issue goes back to a major cool room fire where it smouldered until the entire building was destroyed as it could not be put out.

For a SIPS home you would only nominate the structural frame as Timber (or steel - depending on the panel) as you are not required to nominate the insulation. Best to let sleeping dogs lie.

Also, many insurers cover the house risk themselves as opposed to under a reinsurance treaty such as a major commercial project (aka cool room above) and as such will not even hit the reinsurance radar.

My understanding is that the EPS used for homes is fire retardant and will not burn and will self extinguish however this can be easily confirmed from the testing results that your supplier should be able to supply.

Bottom line is that yes you can get insurance however I would get your manufacturer to sort this out and confirm if you need to do or specify anything else to the insurer BEFORE you pay any money for your panels!

Good question and a tricky one that has come up before!

For those that are intersted, this link has some interesting discussion of the PROS and CONS of EPS, XPS and Polyurethane cores in SIPS.

http://sipbuilding.wordpress.com/2006/12/20/foam-core-eps-xps-and-polyurethane/

Nice link there DestinationTranmere, interesting stuff.
I have to say I haven't found any off gassing issues with our OSB/PU/OSB panels, maybe due to the MHRV system (a must for any SIPs build due to airtightness) changing the air so often.
I have also checked various areas that I can access and the insulation seems to be just the same as it was 5 years ago.
The insurance thing I'm astounded by - in the UK if a construction product is tested and approved by the BBA (British Board of Agreement) then no insurer should have any problem with a property built using that system. We had the same thing here with Timber frame in the 90's until someone pointed out that there are some 400 year old timber frame homes still standing today !
The fire thing is also crazy as like others have said if your facing skin is breached (which should take some time and very high temperatures) then there is a good chance of collapse so what does it matter if the insulation melts ? The key is to ensure it is built to give at least a half hour fire resistance to allow escape from the building (UK building regs), ours has 1 hour due to the plasterboard used.
Justin.

While I agree with all the logic on insulation and fire risk, unfortunately, and regardless of our various opinions of how stupid the insurers may or may not be (BTW - I am definitely NOT a fan of the insurance industry) the facts are the facts regarding how insurance companies may deal with insulated panel systems and it stems from major commercial losses they have previously incurred in Australia.

The information and recommendations I posted earlier was straight from our main insurance broker who I raised this with early last year.

My advice, in addition to my earlier post is to also put this question firmly and squarely back on the manufacturers and get THEM to sort it out with the insurance industry once and for all. It is after all their responsibility. If you have a $50K panel order sitting in limbo then I am absolutely convinced that they will 'get on it'!

You are quite right there Builda, the SIPs producers need to be pushing the insurance companies to accept this type of construction to be treated no differently to brick/steel/timber methods.
So is there an approval board for construction materials in Australia ?

Good question and in reality every panel system must be approved by the Building Code of Australia (BCA) and the testing required is quite rigorous.

It is important to differentiate between the ability to get a building permit with BCA accreditation as opposed to what the insurers will actually accept - these are two totally different worlds!

In terms of accreditation insist on the BCA documentation and approval or you will struggle to get a building permit in any state.

It seems I have quite a bit to learn yet in the way things are done in Australia compared to the UK!
BCA approval is essential as is BBA in the UK, without it no Building Regulations approval so that is the same but it does appear insurance companies are a little slow on the uptake of new building technologies over there.
Maybe you and I can start sorting them out in 2013 !

With regards to Bondor InsulLiving not being suitable for multistorey - just had a chat with one of the guys from Bondor. They claimed no issue for single/double (apparently they already have something built/building/planing that is double storey somewhere). Got a "maybe" for three storey - the dude wasn't 100% sure, but the 1-2 storey seem good to go anyway.