LED Downlights: to LED or not to LED, that is the question.

Hi everyone,
Seeking your collective opinion and experience with LED downlighting.
Our latest project is an 1850's bluestone terrace house in Geelong, VIC.
We have gutted the place entirely. About to run the wiring for downlights.

When I mentioned LED downlights, our electrician screwed up his nose. I'm not too sure how hard I should push the issue...

I really really want LED downlighting in this place because:
1. The ceilings are 4.2m and I hate changing lightbulbs. (LED = 50,000 hrs)
2. We don't want the extra heat from halogen lighting.
3. 50w halogen vs. 16w LED is a big saving in running costs. It's a dark house inside and the lights will run 24/7.
4. We have a small ceiling cavity and our building surveyor has expressed concerns about fire-proofing issues and compliance.

The brand we're looking at is: http://www.brightgreen.net.au
Model: D900 / D1000

They are dimmable, flicker-free (unlike compact fluorescents), UV Free, Zero Fire Risk, and produce very little heat.

The downlight kits are widely available from wholesalers like Middys, etc. for around $140.00 RRP.

An excerpt from the product brochure reads:


We'll need about 30 kits, so I'm hoping our sparkie will get a discount of sorts.

I would really love to hear about any experience you've had with any brand or model of LED downlighting.

Thanks,
ANDY and JESS

Hi, Ive been looking at LED lights and the ones I have seen at Beacon Lighting in Perth are about $180 but they have 4 LED beams to spread the light. The cheaper ones only have one beam and are very limited in light.
I still like the LED lights but Im waiting for the price to come down
Good luck with whatever you decide.

Funny we are looking to get LED but our electrician has said to wait as the technology is not there yet... I would be really interested to see some more comments here..

That is exactly what our electrician has said!!
Our architecture friend has just put them in his house
We are unsure which way to go.

FYTLED is a spammer from China.

Thanks Zeitgeber - he has been banned and his posts deleted.

Bel

Hey, everyone.
Whether the technology is there or not yet, I'm still convinced that they are the way forward, and the 5yr guarantee great for peace of mind.

Just on a side note... we're working as contractors on Hamilton Island right now. They've just converted every single halogen downlight in the Reef View Hotel to LED downlights. The globes are standard-looking, and they'd be about $40 each RRP they tell me. About 15 downlights x $40 each x 400 hotel rooms in this complex alone = $240,000 OUCH! But I am told that they'll pay for themselves in less than a year with savings in electricity, which ain't cheap to get from the mainland. Not to mention savings in maintainance, changing bulbs, and additional heat from halogens requiring additional airconditioning.

I'm not really sure that we can say the technology "isn't there yet". People are still buying those ridiculous incandescant globes. And the compact fluorescants are cheaper to run but still flicker heaps, and contain real environmental nasties.

For me, the LED's are 1. as bright 2. cheaper to run 3. cooler to run 4. dimmable They're just more expensive to buy initially. And if we don't like the way they run ie. unreliable, break down, or just don't work like they said, there's a guarantee. It's starting to feel like a no brainer to me.

Now... just about the small issue of "standing up" to our electrician... isn't that just the worst part about home renovations?

I've attached a photo of the downlight fixture here in our hotel room on island. I can't notice any difference in brightness or "quality" of light. They just aren't dimmable.

Thanks for your comments so far!

ANDY

You're the one paying the bill, customer gets what customer wants or customer goes elsewhere...

I am considering the same question for my new house, got the same FUD about LEDs, I suspect it also has something to do with the Clipsal range of products having a poor to non existent LED offering.

I did go and look at another company and the LED is really bright, and unless I totally misunderstood the sales manager he was talking $80s for the units.

http://www.superled.com.au/FWS/modules/estore/public/fes_catalog.php?id=49

We have just spoken to shaun at superlight, he was fantastic!
Gave us a similar price and sent us a quote through straight away
We will be going with these guys thanks for the heads up

Do let me know how they go in a real life situation, I don't have to finalise my selection in this area for a couple of months yet, so it would be good to hear some real experience.

Quick update, everyone.
Have ordered a single downlight kit with additional dimmer module. The model that Shaun at Super Light recommended was a 4 x 3W LED globe and kit. Apparently it is much brighter than a standard 50W halogen.
Like many downlight kits nowadays, the fixture simply plugs into a standard 240V power outlet. Easy to wire in and easy to replace if the transformer / driver fails in the future.
The dimmer unit is available at an additional cost of $15. It is connected in between the standard dimmer switch and the downlight kit. Converts what I thought was an undimmable LED downlight into a fully dimmable downlight.
Standard 90mm gimble.
Will take lots of photos of the test kit in action.
Cheers, ANDY

LED's are definitely the way of the future but they are a very different light to Halogens, they are no where near as bright so you cant light the whole room, I prefer to use them as a "spotlight"for certain areas. Also new laws are coming in that restricts new houses to 5w per square metre(in NSW anyway) so basically there will be no more mass amounts of Halogen Downlights

Dimming is one thing to be careful about and where I beleive the sparkies when they say the technology isn't quite there.

When it comes to dimmers there are 3 different ways about going about it. One way is using a trailing edge dimmer, one using a leading edge and the 3rd uses an external signal, which can be analogue or digital depending upon the system to signal the dim level. I beleive that using the external signal method dimming works well on LEDS lights, however when using leading or trailing edge dimmers on LEDS they can get a bit funny when dimmed low. Something about there not being enough current for the dimmer to run properly. Of course you guessed it is leading and trailing edge dimmers that are most commonly found in residential homes.

At least when the sales manager explained it to me that issue is when non purpose built drivers are used, he said that drivers that are built for LEDs do this fine, he did demonstrate it in the shop and it clearly worked a treat (for that matter the colour changing enabled by the RGB function was also a treat). He did send me the tech specs for the dimming solution as I wanted my electrical contractor to weigh in with an opinion. Haven't heard back from him yet.

Yeah purpose built works fine, but they are marketed as working with leading and trailing edge dimmers, which is not purpose built and are what can be brought from the local electrical supplier and pictured in their brochure. These are the ones that I hear CAN give troubles at low power, in particular flickering.

Wildewombat, just realised the product you are talking about is not the same as the OP which is what I was talking about. However looking at the website of the ones you brought proves the point I was trying to make perfectly. To dim their product range you need to use an external signal dimmer, not the standard product you get from your local electrical shop.

Which means you need another powered device and although they say it will fit a standard wall plate, a quick look at the picture in the link below shows it would have to have it's own single gang plate meaning you couldn't also have the main switch on the same plate. So IMO a bit ugly having two seperate plates for the one device.

http://www.superled.com.au/FWS/modules/ ... php?id=106


Anyway I do beleive that LED lighting is the way of the future, AND if you don't need dimming then it is good now. In fact after reading these posts I might look at getting a few to play with myself, though I am leaning to the the ones mentioned by the OP. However if dimming is what is needed, then I am afraid to say the sparkies are 100% right, the technology is not mature enough, at the moment.

We're getting our LED lights from Ascent Living in Braybrook. Not sure if you're willing to travel from Geelong to talk to them. The lights are imported from China.

http://www.ascentliving.com.au/location.htm

I'm also really keen to use LED lighting on our renovation. One of the big issues that I see from people's comments I've read is the colour temperature - apparently LED lights are a very cold white. Is this still true?

They come in two standard colours, WARM white and cool white, they also come in RGB but apparently that will not display warm white.