Browse Forums Landscape & Garden Design 1 Jul 15, 2015 4:57 pm Hi All, I am a total beginner at this, so please bear with me. I would like some advice. I have been reading some of thread stickies involving soil preparation for turf/seeds and will be hiring a rotary hoe soon for the occasion. I reside in Truganina VIC 3029 and the soil is as far as I can tell, quite clay-ish. The area to be turfed is 14 metres by 8 metres which ends up being 112 square metres. Just to simplify, what would be the most inexpensive way to prepare my soil for turf? Compost can be a tad pricey, since I would need approximately 10-20% which equals 11-22 sq. m and I cannot find any good certified organic compost providers in Melbourne's West. Or just Bentonite, Perlite & Zeolite? Or a lesser mix of both? Or something different altogether? I am interested in hearing your opinions and recommendations. Thanks! Re: Turf Soil Preparation On The Cheap 2Jul 16, 2015 10:14 am Hi there Using a rotary hoe to break up the clay is by far the best way to start off. Albeit the 10cm of recommended top soil should suffice, it may cause drainage issues that you will have when the water hits the clay. I helped a mate with his sizable backyard and we dropped 10cm of clay to build up the level and another 10cm of top soil and the grass is performing very well 2 years on. I would like to think the rotary hoe would do the same to soil as you would by dumping 10cm of clay down. You could look into applying Gypsum but the jury is out on it's effectiveness as far as I know. As for the top soil, Lawn Mix is the cheapest. 10cm is all you need and if you need to build up any areas and want to avoid the cost of top soil, you could back fill with clay from someone who is throwing it out. You don't want to skimp out on anything other than lawn mix and 10cm is a minimum. Pro tip. Lightly compact the soil down by driving over it with the dingo if you are using one or other means. Also lightly compact the lawn mix. Of course don't use a compactor because that just defeats the purpose. The reason you would want to lightly compact the surfaces is to reduce the uneven compaction that will occur over the many years your lawn will be around from water and foot traffic. Re: Turf Soil Preparation On The Cheap 3Jul 16, 2015 10:50 am Adam.M Hi there Using a rotary hoe to break up the clay is by far the best way to start off. Albeit the 10cm of recommended top soil should suffice, it may cause drainage issues that you will have when the water hits the clay. I helped a mate with his sizable backyard and we dropped 10cm of clay to build up the level and another 10cm of top soil and the grass is performing very well 2 years on. I would like to think the rotary hoe would do the same to soil as you would by dumping 10cm of clay down. You could look into applying Gypsum but the jury is out on it's effectiveness as far as I know. As for the top soil, Lawn Mix is the cheapest. 10cm is all you need and if you need to build up any areas and want to avoid the cost of top soil, you could back fill with clay from someone who is throwing it out. You don't want to skimp out on anything other than lawn mix and 10cm is a minimum. Pro tip. Lightly compact the soil down by driving over it with the dingo if you are using one or other means. Also lightly compact the lawn mix. Of course don't use a compactor because that just defeats the purpose. The reason you would want to lightly compact the surfaces is to reduce the uneven compaction that will occur over the many years your lawn will be around from water and foot traffic. Hi Adam, Thanks for your reply! I appreciate the advice. Just to clarify when you said dump 10 cm of clay in your situation, you meant to add an additional 10cm of clay correct? The purpose of this is just to keep it all level and even? Thanks for the pro tip. Would a water filled roller suffice for light compacting? Re: Turf Soil Preparation On The Cheap 4Jul 16, 2015 10:57 am There is no good way to do this on the cheap. Sure people have had good results not following fu Manchus guides but his guides are for improving the soil for more than just getting nice turf. They are designed for building an excellent microbially active healthy soil so that your turf requires less maintenance in future. Overal saving you money in the long run. You can get compost delivered by buleen arts and garden. I wouldn't ad any bentonite as that is used for amending sandy soils. It's a clay. Follow fu manchus stickies for best results. You will only need about 4 cubic meters of compost and 1 cubic meter of sand. Pear lite and zeolite are easy to get. Bulleen arts and garden can deliver this too. Use seamingus and bactivate also. It might seem all expensive now, but if you don't do it right, you'll end up with a poor result. In the worst case scenario, you'll have to start again. So doing it on the cheap is a false economy. Truganina has heavy clay soils, so don't try to cheap out on amending the soil. You may also want to wait until it starts to warm up a bit. Should give you more time to save a bit of coin for doing it right. Creator of superduperonium, expert at expert things, nobel laureate, can hold my breath for 10 minutes. Re: Turf Soil Preparation On The Cheap 5Jul 16, 2015 10:59 am Btw don't ad more clay to clay soil. That's silly. Hoe the amendments in then level it out. Adding clay to clay soil is counter productive, especially in trugganina Creator of superduperonium, expert at expert things, nobel laureate, can hold my breath for 10 minutes. Re: Turf Soil Preparation On The Cheap 6Jul 16, 2015 11:13 am Ponzu There is no good way to do this on the cheap. Sure people have had good results not following fu Manchus guides but his guides are for improving the soil for more than just getting nice turf. They are designed for building an excellent microbially active healthy soil so that your turf requires less maintenance in future. Overal saving you money in the long run. You can get compost delivered by buleen arts and garden. I wouldn't ad any bentonite as that is used for amending sandy soils. It's a clay. Follow fu manchus stickies for best results. You will only need about 4 cubic meters of compost and 1 cubic meter of sand. Pear lite and zeolite are easy to get. Bulleen arts and garden can deliver this too. Use seamingus and bactivate also. It might seem all expensive now, but if you don't do it right, you'll end up with a poor result. In the worst case scenario, you'll have to start again. So doing it on the cheap is a false economy. Truganina has heavy clay soils, so don't try to cheap out on amending the soil. You may also want to wait until it starts to warm up a bit. Should give you more time to save a bit of coin for doing it right. Ponzu Btw don't ad more clay to clay soil. That's silly. Hoe the amendments in then level it out. Adding clay to clay soil is counter productive, especially in trugganina Thanks Ponzu. Fair enough, spending more now sounds better than spending some now and more later. I will wait until closer to spring to start and will save up some cash to make sure it is done correctly. Would the 4 m3 of compost and 1 m3 of sand (sandy loam the same thing?) be sufficient for my 112 sq. m area? Re: Turf Soil Preparation On The Cheap 7Jul 16, 2015 11:40 am sKyz Ponzu There is no good way to do this on the cheap. Sure people have had good results not following fu Manchus guides but his guides are for improving the soil for more than just getting nice turf. They are designed for building an excellent microbially active healthy soil so that your turf requires less maintenance in future. Overal saving you money in the long run. You can get compost delivered by buleen arts and garden. I wouldn't ad any bentonite as that is used for amending sandy soils. It's a clay. Follow fu manchus stickies for best results. You will only need about 4 cubic meters of compost and 1 cubic meter of sand. Pear lite and zeolite are easy to get. Bulleen arts and garden can deliver this too. Use seamingus and bactivate also. It might seem all expensive now, but if you don't do it right, you'll end up with a poor result. In the worst case scenario, you'll have to start again. So doing it on the cheap is a false economy. Truganina has heavy clay soils, so don't try to cheap out on amending the soil. You may also want to wait until it starts to warm up a bit. Should give you more time to save a bit of coin for doing it right. Ponzu Btw don't ad more clay to clay soil. That's silly. Hoe the amendments in then level it out. Adding clay to clay soil is counter productive, especially in trugganina Thanks Ponzu. Fair enough, spending more now sounds better than spending some now and more later. I will wait until closer to spring to start and will save up some cash to make sure it is done correctly. Would the 4 m3 of compost and 1 m3 of sand (sandy loam the same thing?) be sufficient for my 112 sq. m area? Yes will be enough. You could probably squeeze in 5 meters of compost, You're amending the soil, not just putting it on top. hoeing in that much compost into your clay is not an easy task. If you put too much you'll be increasing the height of your soill too much. Depending on how the land sits you could end up with water flowing towards your house when it rains. Also use a plate compactor to compact the soil. a dingo wont give you the result youre after if youre not versed in using one. rotary hoe and a compactor will set you back about 300 bucks for 24 hour hire. Creator of superduperonium, expert at expert things, nobel laureate, can hold my breath for 10 minutes. Re: Turf Soil Preparation On The Cheap 8Jul 16, 2015 11:43 am sandy loam is a ready mixed soil containing soil and sand. I would go with compost and sand and mix yourself. That way you can actually be certain on the quality of the compost youre bringing in. you never know what soil the soil yard is mixing to make its sandy loam. I'm in melbournes west (Manor lakes) and got Buleen arts and garden to deliver all the stuff i needed. Their compost is definitely good quality. Creator of superduperonium, expert at expert things, nobel laureate, can hold my breath for 10 minutes. Re: Turf Soil Preparation On The Cheap 9Jul 16, 2015 11:59 am To put it in perspective what fu's guide helps achieve is this http://imgur.com/bwPp1L1 That's my front lawn that hasn't been watered except by weather for a month. I am in heavy clay soil. The only amendment I didn't add was spongolite. I just used more zeolite and pearlite. Creator of superduperonium, expert at expert things, nobel laureate, can hold my breath for 10 minutes. Re: Turf Soil Preparation On The Cheap 10Jul 16, 2015 12:25 pm Thanks Ponzu, I very much appreciate all the advice. So in essence, using Fu's guide I have to: Rotary Hoe, add Organic Compost, Powerfeed, Bactivate, Zeolite, Perlite then rotary hoe as deep as possible, then level and rake then compact. Sound like a good plan? Ponzu To put it in perspective what fu's guide helps achieve is this http://imgur.com/bwPp1L1 That's my front lawn that hasn't been watered except by weather for a month. I am in heavy clay soil. The only amendment I didn't add was spongolite. I just used more zeolite and pearlite. Wow, that looks amazing. May I ask what type of turf that is? Re: Turf Soil Preparation On The Cheap 11Jul 16, 2015 12:31 pm Ponzu sandy loam is a ready mixed soil containing soil and sand. I would go with compost and sand and mix yourself. That way you can actually be certain on the quality of the compost youre bringing in. you never know what soil the soil yard is mixing to make its sandy loam. I'm in melbournes west (Manor lakes) and got Buleen arts and garden to deliver all the stuff i needed. Their compost is definitely good quality. Also, what sort of sand do I need? I assume the normal fine white sand (if looking at BAAG's website)? Re: Turf Soil Preparation On The Cheap 12Jul 16, 2015 1:21 pm sKyz Thanks Ponzu, I very much appreciate all the advice. So in essence, using Fu's guide I have to: Rotary Hoe, add Organic Compost, Powerfeed, Bactivate, Zeolite, Perlite then rotary hoe as deep as possible, then level and rake then compact. Sound like a good plan? Ponzu To put it in perspective what fu's guide helps achieve is this http://imgur.com/bwPp1L1 That's my front lawn that hasn't been watered except by weather for a month. I am in heavy clay soil. The only amendment I didn't add was spongolite. I just used more zeolite and pearlite. Wow, that looks amazing. May I ask what type of turf that is? Yep. Don't forget about 2 large buckets of seamungus. And molasses. I used the stuff from Coles. Kick starts the microbes early. Then water in seasol. The turf is kikuyu. Creator of superduperonium, expert at expert things, nobel laureate, can hold my breath for 10 minutes. Re: Turf Soil Preparation On The Cheap 13Jul 16, 2015 1:23 pm sKyz Ponzu sandy loam is a ready mixed soil containing soil and sand. I would go with compost and sand and mix yourself. That way you can actually be certain on the quality of the compost youre bringing in. you never know what soil the soil yard is mixing to make its sandy loam. I'm in melbournes west (Manor lakes) and got Buleen arts and garden to deliver all the stuff i needed. Their compost is definitely good quality. Also, what sort of sand do I need? I assume the normal fine white sand (if looking at BAAG's website)? Yep. Creator of superduperonium, expert at expert things, nobel laureate, can hold my breath for 10 minutes. Re: Turf Soil Preparation On The Cheap 14Jul 16, 2015 1:34 pm Sorry just did some calcs. You're going to need 6 cubic meters of compost and 2 of sand. Sorry Creator of superduperonium, expert at expert things, nobel laureate, can hold my breath for 10 minutes. Re: Turf Soil Preparation On The Cheap 15Jul 16, 2015 2:34 pm Ponzu sKyz Thanks Ponzu, I very much appreciate all the advice. So in essence, using Fu's guide I have to: Rotary Hoe, add Organic Compost, Sand, Powerfeed, Bactivate, Zeolite, Perlite then rotary hoe as deep as possible, then level and rake then compact. Sound like a good plan? Ponzu To put it in perspective what fu's guide helps achieve is this http://imgur.com/bwPp1L1 That's my front lawn that hasn't been watered except by weather for a month. I am in heavy clay soil. The only amendment I didn't add was spongolite. I just used more zeolite and pearlite. Wow, that looks amazing. May I ask what type of turf that is? Yep. Don't forget about 2 large buckets of seamungus. And molasses. I used the stuff from Coles. Kick starts the microbes early. Then water in seasol. The turf is kikuyu. Great. Is there a particular order or way I need to add all those items or is it ok just to mix it all together? The seamungus, molasses and seasol comes in after I have laid the turf correct? Ponzu Sorry just did some calcs. You're going to need 6 cubic meters of compost and 2 of sand. Sorry No problems, thank you for that. May I ask how you calculated this? Re: Turf Soil Preparation On The Cheap 16Jul 16, 2015 2:48 pm Ok to add all the amendments and mix in. Seamungus in with the zeolite and pearlite before you till it all through. Molases and seasol after turf is laid. As to calcs - based it on how much I sued for the front at mine. You area is approx 2.1 times what mine is. I ordered 4 cubic meters of compost and 1 of sand and had About a fifth left over. If you get 6 and 2 you should have around the right amount for approx 110sqm. Creator of superduperonium, expert at expert things, nobel laureate, can hold my breath for 10 minutes. Re: Turf Soil Preparation On The Cheap 17Jul 16, 2015 3:02 pm sKyz Rotary Hoe, add Organic Compost, Powerfeed, Bactivate, Zeolite, Perlite then rotary hoe as deep as possible, then level and rake then compact. Before you do of course, talk to a few lawn suppliers and get their opinion because it sounds like you will be pumping in a sh*t load of nutrients unnecessarily. Unnecessary because once the nutrients have been used up, you won't get a chance to put it back. The lawn mix at a good depth and feed on top works more than fine in my opinion of the few that I have done. All I am saying is to be practical about it. Re: Turf Soil Preparation On The Cheap 18Jul 16, 2015 3:29 pm Adam.M sKyz Rotary Hoe, add Organic Compost, Powerfeed, Bactivate, Zeolite, Perlite then rotary hoe as deep as possible, then level and rake then compact. Before you do of course, talk to a few lawn suppliers and get their opinion because it sounds like you will be pumping in a sh*t load of nutrients unnecessarily. Unnecessary because once the nutrients have been used up, you won't get a chance to put it back. The lawn mix at a good depth and feed on top works more than fine in my opinion of the few that I have done. All I am saying is to be practical about it. Zeolite and pearlite aren't nutrients. These mineral structures basically hold nutrients and moisture that are introduced allowing for slow release as required by the roots. Compost helps amend the clay to a more favourable structure, because clay is rubbish for growing most things. Bactivate and seamungus introduces microbes beneficial to healthy soils. Most of which aren't found in clay, if they were the soil would not be poor. Power feed/seasol is used for giving the turf roots the appropriate nutrition quickly. This isn't pumping unnecessary nutrients into the soil, it's about improving overal soil structure and microbial ecology which is necessary for clay soils. If you take the time to read Fu's stickies you'll understand that each amendment has a purpose. As to not being able to put nutrients back - that's rubbish. If nutrients were depleted and none could be replaced then things would cease to grow. After creating an appropriate soil structure and ecology, you replenish nutrients via introducing the food the microbes in the soil need, such as via seasol and seamungus crumble etc Creator of superduperonium, expert at expert things, nobel laureate, can hold my breath for 10 minutes. Re: Turf Soil Preparation On The Cheap 19Jul 16, 2015 9:13 pm Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Well the attached posted picture where 10cm of clay and 10cm of lawn mix for 170m2 says otherwise. The grass was laid in a suburb close to Truganina. Recently cut otherwise nice and green. I'm purely providing sKyz with an answer to his question... sKyz ...what would be the most inexpensive way to prepare my soil for turf?... Re: Turf Soil Preparation On The Cheap 20Jul 16, 2015 9:19 pm Colour of that turf is not even consistent. But whatever. Some people just don't get it. Nice deck though Creator of superduperonium, expert at expert things, nobel laureate, can hold my breath for 10 minutes. 1. 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