Browse Forums Landscape & Garden Design 1 Apr 11, 2011 4:04 pm First thanks for the wonderful resources on this forum. I have searched and read topics, but can't seem to find a match to my issue with my sir walters grass. Installed 200 square meters about 8 months ago in perth (coolbellup). Used organic pellets, soil wetter and water crystals as soil preparation as per instructions from my sir walters supplier. My soil is of the sandy type with a colour in between milk and dark chocolade It grew very nicely for the first part of summer, but the last part of summer it has really struggled. Here is the breakdown of how the lawn looks depending on amount of sun: full shade: mostly dead with some green leaves half shade: growing fast but very yellow (needs mowing every 2-3 weeks) full sun: green but hardly growning (hardy any growth after 3 weeks) the grass does not lift off and has roots 10cm or more deep in most places. I have a mulcer mower, to return the goodness to the lawn. I have been applying regular soil wetter and switching between organic and inorganic fertlisers every 2-3 months. I went back to my sir walters supplier a months ago and was told my fertlisers was low in iron and bought the official "sir walters fertliser", but the problem is only getting worse. Obviously there is something not right with the soil, but the products I have tried so far have not worked. Is there a specific nutrient missing when sir walters is completely yellow in part shade during summer? Mollasses and organic soil seems to be the standard trick to get things working. Is this the best solution for me or does the grass turn yellow when there is too much nitrogen? some photos: http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/16565493 ... 5308_gkdZf Thanks for your help, Marius Re: sir walters yellow where growing and green where stagnan 2Apr 11, 2011 10:56 pm Quote: Installed 200 square meters about 8 months ago in perth (coolbellup). Used organic pellets, soil wetter and water crystals as soil preparation as per instructions from my sir walters supplier. My soil is of the sandy type with a colour in between milk and dark chocolade It grew very nicely for the first part of summer, but the last part of summer it has really struggled. and there is why your Sir Walter is yellow. Re: sir walters yellow where growing and green where stagnan 3Apr 11, 2011 11:01 pm sandy soil (even dark brown) = yellow sir walter? Or where you prefering to my soil preparation? That would rule out most of perth coastal area's for installing Sir walters and is the first I heared of it (but obviously I am a noob with my walters failing ). Is there any way to fix this or is bulldozering and choosing a different grass the only option? Re: sir walters yellow where growing and green where stagnan 4Apr 11, 2011 11:13 pm In reviewing the turf threads you will notice very evidently that none of those procedures are mentioned or recommended. Here in WA it is those very practices that many organisations such as water corp, Great Gardens and Swan River Trust also UWA are seeking to change and eliminate. What you get is a great result for around 8 months to a year and then you'll push poo up a hill for gaes after that and have a problematic lawn. Soil prep is cert organic compost, bentonite clay, zeolite and even spongolite mixed through the sand to a depth of 30-40cm. Problem free or at least fewer problems are then encountered. No special lawn starters, no fertilisers, no chemical crystals that were never made for horticulure, no lawn mixes and certainly no DPM pellets. Nick Bell who used to be a Guru of turf for Sir Walter through his business the lawn doctor has now himself come round to the method I have outlined. So that isn't much for helping you now though. To over come the effects will take a long time and there is no kwik fix. Coring the turf and raking the amendments to the soil (bentonite, zeolite ect) then top dressing with certified organic compost each year. There are only selective soil places for that. After a few years the amendments will be worked through the soil a little better thanks to worms and soil movement. The long term problem will be the crystals. There is a very big line in the sand on these in Horticulture. Short term results show benefits but not benefits compared with the sort of soil prep I mention which really is the more modern bench mark. The long term results with crystals are that they are very good at locking away nutrients from the plant roots. Also microbes can't break them into different or simpler forms that then become super available to the plants. These were designed to absorb not release moisture. The nappy industry thanks them for it. That is a heap of fertiliser to be using!!!!! No matter what brand. No fertiliser is better still and by using the mulcher mower that will be all that is required. The fertilisers will harm soil microbes and they are needed to break down the lawn clippings. Using wetting agents that often is not going to be helping either. If you must use one, Saturaid. Leave it at that. They must be applied to moist soil and then hosed in rain and retic don't work and may harm the plant or lawn (plant as well ) Re: sir walters yellow where growing and green where stagnan 5Apr 11, 2011 11:15 pm For the roots to be only 10cm deep is not much good, even though SW and other buffalos are more surface orientated, they really should be sending roots deeper. In summer it would be gobbling water otherwise. Re: sir walters yellow where growing and green where stagnan 6Apr 11, 2011 11:17 pm The colours of our soils varies, but they are still more or less the most inorganic and impoverished soils found anywhere on earth. A good soil needs organic material, not a concoction of man made chemicals and the like Re: sir walters yellow where growing and green where stagnan 7Apr 11, 2011 11:47 pm Core the lawn with a corer from a hire place or stand there doging retic and aerate the lawn with a garden fork. Not anywhere as good but will kind of do the job. So you need a 9kg bag of clay cat litter from the super market. (have a look on the back in little letters it will say Ingredients: "Bentonite" ) Get some zeolite from a Mirco Bros, Landmark, elders, pond shop, backyard aquaponics, hydroponics shops. or gardeners direct, greenlife soil company. Chuck them round and rake over the area. Some 'rock minerals" from Gardeners direct. Natural trace elements released slowly at rates they should be released at. These are also far more available than the forms we get as powders which often do more harm than good. Topdress with 1m3 cert organic compost. The king would be to get a bulk bag of this stuff... http://www.dsatco.com/PiggypostBulkBag/ ... roductName or either of these soils, http://www.gardenersdirect.com.au/comme ... BGO!%2B%2B or Premium Organic Compost from http://www.eurekacompost.com/our-products.html or General Mix from http://www.greenlifesoil.com.au/soils.htm Overall though the headache you will face for ever more will always be the crystals. They are forever going to lock up nutrients, keep moisture close to the surface and release chemicals that inhibit soil microbe health. The affects of the Densified chook poo will eventually be over come. Yes they are organic but they have adverse affects in our soil types. The turf variety you choose is irrelevant. The best plant in the world will become the worst when grown in the worst soils in the world Get the soil right and the rest fixes itself. Never feed the plant, always feed the soil My pick is Empire Zoysia (of which there is much nonsense circulated about it but great turf when done right ) The two big gun buffalos are great SW and Palmetto. Re: sir walters yellow where growing and green where stagnan 8Apr 11, 2011 11:54 pm It is hard for you guys to know what is right and wrong or ok and better. So many conflicting bits of advice. I feel for you. I know that what is written here comes with a great deal of confidence in the results. It is also non commercial, I have no financial gain to make from any of this information. Our turf industry stands to gain a great deal if they up the standard of advice. Then maybe people won't have lawns that do their head in. No wonder people are turning to plastic grass *shudders* The turf industry and lawn mowing contractors are shooting themselves in the foot. Re: sir walters yellow where growing and green where stagnan 9Apr 11, 2011 11:56 pm Oh and you would have noticed from the other threads you read to use molasses! Check the molasses thread for more. Very critical. If in the future you choose to use a fertiliser use either Scotts Lawn Builder or the king is "shades of green" Re: sir walters yellow where growing and green where stagnan 10Apr 12, 2011 12:40 am Many many many thanks for your detailed reply. Turns out that you should not trust the instruction sheet from the supplier. Seems very short sighted from suppliers, as yes the quick-dirty setup way with pellets/granules makes it easier for the quick sale, but in the long term its damaging for the sir walters brand if turfs fail due to startup-shortcuts. Shaking my head that the advice from the actual suppliers is very poor. It would have been so much easier to do this before laying the turf. I really appreciate your detailed help and will be ordering some well needed love for my lawn this week. Who would have thoughed that catty litter is an essential element missing in my soil I guess its never too late to start loving your soil.... Thanks, Marius Re: sir walters yellow where growing and green where stagnan 11Apr 12, 2011 12:59 am I don't think its deliberate. It is a confused or misinformed (on their behalf) use of outdated methods. In the 80's we could water all day everyday and it didn't matter. Yellow sand and DPM under the turf. No body cared. Take away the water and, as we have, on two or even one day a week, we are screwed with those methods. To see a long time advocate of the old ways reassess his entire career and change says something of both the methods I have outlined and the seriousness of the water situation. Most advice is based on highly skilled turf managers looking after acres of turf. Domestic methods of turf care can no longer afford to mimic those. Re: sir walters yellow where growing and green where stagnan 12Apr 12, 2011 1:02 am In regard to cat litter, it must only be CLAY cat litter The bentonite makes the sand sticky and form little balls. It also fills the spaces between the sand so water just hangs around. When bentonite is mixed in as a soil prep you only need to do it once and you are fine forever. To get into the soil on established gardens and lawns takes time and patience. Same for the zeolite. Re: sir walters yellow where growing and green where stagnan 14Apr 15, 2011 7:24 pm Just an observation...we're about 6 weeks since our lawn was put down and doing the soil prep already looks to be worth it...it's green, lush, and the few weeds that are there are minimal and easily removed. It just looks healthy...like it's not struggling at all. There two other neighbors on the other street who had couch laid with no special prep and it's already really yellow, even though they've been watering in the afternoons with their exemptions and all... My neighbor put his SWB down on plain sand as well. I'm waiting to see how his lawn and mine look in comparison by next summer. Re: sir walters yellow where growing and green where stagnan 15Apr 15, 2011 8:00 pm That's great to hear. The real difference isn't even how it looks, it's about how much less yours needs. Whilst there are greater installation costs, the over all maintenance costs of your lawn alone will be significantly less. It will also be a far greater contributor to reducing the impact of urban landscapes on the environment. Anyone who says chucking topsoil down and DPM is joking themselves when it comes to a sustainable lawn. Further more it will be the reason why people get sick of lawns and the associated problems poor advice and info create, often from the turf people themselves Re: sir walters yellow where growing and green where stagnan 16Apr 17, 2011 10:28 pm Update: I done my first steps of the soil improvements. Bought the Bentonite from city farmers. Zeolite and rock minerals from a organic garden centre in fremantle. Together with a bag of "gods gift to garden" and "Piggypost" organic compost to see which one I liked best. The piggypost is indeed a great product and I'll be ordering a bulk bag later this week to do the whole lawn. And of course a stop at the supermarket to buy some sulhor free molasses. I was reading that low iron is a common cause of yellow foliage. But looking at the iron supplements in bunnings they have EDTA in them. We used this in laboraties as a way to bind all calcium/magnesium and stop all enzyme activity (inhibit bacteria, enzymes, blood clotting, etc). Figured this would not be good to put on the lawn. Since "blood and bone" has a lot of iron and other goodness in them, would that be worth while trying as well to correct the yellow foliage? Or are there some pitfalls with applying these to buffalo grasses? Thanks Marius Re: sir walters yellow where growing and green where stagnan 17May 04, 2011 1:22 am If nutrient deficiencies and the like were a problem, I'd mention them. What is going on is that if we focus purely on processed fertilisers as a means to make something grow then pH and it effects will be be very relevant. You will also have a very sick soil and so many problems with your lawn it will be up and down like a yo yo. Just like most lawns do. The more organic material that a soil contains, the less relevance pH has on things Everything hinges on the soils living universe, minerals are a secondary thing. 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