Browse Forums Landscape & Garden Design 1 Mar 15, 2011 11:49 am Hi All, I'm after some advice about what to do with my vegie patches over winter. With my summer garden coming to an end and not really having enough daylight hours for a winter a vegie patch, it usually gets overrun with weeds which I spend weeks pulling out to plant again in spring. This year I'm hoping to clean up the summer garden beds and plant some green manure crops. I'm wondering if anyone has any advice. I'm not sure what to plant or where to get the seeds and I'm not sure about how long to let it grow and then what to do with it once it has grown. I'm near Melbourne if that makes any difference to what I should grow as a green manure. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Re: Green Manure Advice 2Mar 15, 2011 12:01 pm Hi fozzy, Try the Diggers club for green manure crop seeds www.diggers.com.au There are vegies which will happily grow in the shorter days of winter-or do you have an issue with shadow lengths from buildings/trees? Deemaree Kyndylan Capers: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=46852 My blog: http://www.sufficientlysufficient.blogspot.com/ Re: Green Manure Advice 3Mar 15, 2011 1:08 pm Oooh, good plan fozzy Winter has always been seen by most veggie gardeners as a time to rest the soil, but really it's the best time to feed it and prepare it for the following years' crops. Green manure will feed the soil, provide an abundance of wonderful nutrients and can even break down disease cycles in the soil (this is of particular benefit if you are growing plants of the solanum genus e.g. potatoes, eggplants, tomatoes, capsicums, eggplant etc). Legumes (lupins, vetches, annual sub-clovers for example) are a good choice, because of the way that they fix nitrogen in the soil, which can then be later used by other plants. Good examples for Melbourne would be clovers. When this is later turned into the soil, it will offer an abundance of nitrates, humates, potassium and phospates to the benefit of the soil and your subsequent veggies. When the clover flowers, you need to mow the whole lot right down to the ground and then let them rot down. Barley is also a fast growing green manure crop, that will germinate even in Melbourne winters For preparation, the simplest method I know is to roughly dig over the bed (March and April being the best time for this), generously sprinkle with Fu's favourite soil amendments (easy to find if you do a search here, but you will want at least Zeolite - Clark's Rubber sells it for pool filters in 15kg sacks at around $25) and a heavy application of well-rotted manure. Fork this in, water the whole lot with a seasol-molasses mix (or compost tea and molasses if you prefer) then immediately sew your green manure crop. If growing barley, cut it all down once it's approximately 40cm high and turn this into the top of the soil using your fork. Don't go any deeper than 10cm, avoid disturbing the subsoil and don't worry if any of the barley remains on the surface as it rots down quickly. If using the clover, just mow it back when it starts to flower. It will likely be about early to mid September by then, but doesn't matter if it's later. Leave the soil undisturbed until ready to plant (the soil should be in great condition by mid-October, but will be even better if you can wait longer!), then simply hoe the surface and sow or plant. Barley and peas are used one after the other in Scotland, in between potato crops, to remove any nasties from the soil and prepare it for the next crop. Crop rotation doesn't have to mean leaving the soil unplanted for half the year https://secure.diggersgardenclub.com.au/search.aspx?SearchOption=SimpleSearch&SearchTerm=green+manure Re: Green Manure Advice 4Mar 15, 2011 1:39 pm Deemaree Hi fozzy, Try the Diggers club for green manure crop seeds http://www.diggers.com.au There are vegies which will happily grow in the shorter days of winter-or do you have an issue with shadow lengths from buildings/trees? Thanks Deemaree, I'll check out the Diggers site. My daylight problem is because of my work hours. Through the week its dark when I leave for work and dark when I get home so I don't have a chance to get down into the veggie garden. Then often on weekends its too cold or too wet to get out there. KerryF Oooh, good plan fozzy ... Thanks Kerry, Great info. Re: Green Manure Advice 5Mar 15, 2011 3:43 pm No problems In your situation, green manure is a great idea as your plot will remain unplanted, gathering weeds, without having something in there. However, you do need to wait a little while before planting in it again to ensure that the 'toxins' (as in toxic to your plants) from the green manure breaking down don't interfere with the iron uptake of your new plants. 3 weeks is the minimum period I think, but best to wait the 4 weeks or more. If the leaves on some seedlings start to yellow, you'll know it was a bit too quick. If you want to plant in there quickly to stop the weeds getting a hold, then you could harvest and compost the green manure instead, before later adding it back to the soil. Just use existing compost or buy some organic compost to use initially. The use of green manure is also a good way to get any problem clay soils breaking down and becoming more friable (crumbly to you and me!). You could just add a few extra steps to the process I previously mentioned: lightly dig over soil, sprinkle with soil amendments (including gysum if it will help your situation - do a search here to check whether it would be of use to you) and dry manure, leave for a couple of months for the sun and rain to break down any clods etc, then follow the process I previously mentioned. If you want this to go pretty fast, you can water once a month with seasol & molasses to help further break down the clay by getting the micro-organisms etc in the soil all happy (like the 7 dwarfs... Hi ho hi ho, it's off to work we go!) and perhaps even use Olsens Green Bio or Go Go Juice to give their numbers a boost. This method is particularly good if you are turning an area of neglected garden, or one previously covered by turf etc, into a bountiful veggie bed. With any turf you take up, just set it in a pile to the side and cover lightly with some organic compost, it will break down and give you some excellent compost to add to your garden later. Oh dear, I've gone off on one again, I need to drink less coffee I think! Lots of easy to understand info here: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=ATWaaXyA1VEC&pg=PA30&dq=%22green+manure%22&hl=en&ei=IP5-TafwJI_yvwPstMDoBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CGgQ6AEwCTgK#v=onepage&q&f=false - see chapter 4 Re: Green Manure Advice 6Mar 16, 2011 11:17 am Love your work Kerry. Always a pleasure to read your comments. This is a subject that I have thought for awhile to do over winter. What are your thoughts of having green manure around bases of fruit trees and general mulched up areas around like under my palm groves ? Will it infact take valueable nutrients away from the other plants as they grow ? Re: Green Manure Advice 7Mar 17, 2011 7:01 pm Thanks Razza Growing green manure is a perfect use of veggie beds over winter - keeping on growing crops & returning them to the soil, keeping the beds mulched, keeping up the molasses treatments... All these things will get your soil in even better condition for the next growing season. Your garden will work for you, with the minimum of intervention whilst you rest your achy bones over winter. Mine are certainly aching this year anyway! Now, as a mulch...you can use green manure as a mulch, but should let it rot (compost) down for a couple of weeks before hand for the reason given in one of my posts above ^^^. It will provide an excellent supply of nutrients, however will rot down very quickly. If you were to shred the prunings from your fruit trees and palm fronds etc, along with some (very rotted) stable manure, any leaves you have blowing around and lucerne hay (the high protein content of this breaks down providing the bacteria with nitrogen and phosphorus, reducing the nitrogen that is 'stolen' from the plants being mulched), then mix in your partly rotted green manure however, you would get a pretty fantastic mulch. Use lucerne instead of pea-straw because the high protein content provides a lot of readily available nutrients (nitrates, phosphates, potassium etc) and humus when it rots down. Similarly, clover offers this when used as a green manure crop or when used alongside lawn clippings in your compost bin or mixed with your garden shreddings for mulch. Hope this answered your question Ooh, just thought of another great use for green manure! We all know that the best way to prevent attack from pests is to ensure that the soil, therefore the root structures and our plants, are as healthy as possible. Feed the soil not the plants as Fu always says! A great way to prepare the area that will at some point have a lawn, is to grow a green manure crop there in the winter beforehand. Along with the soil amendments (see the all things turf and various other Fu threads), this will get your soil in fantastic condition. If you time it all so that you're turning in the green manure about 5 weeks or so before you lay/plant your lawn, an added benefit is that all those annoying pests (wire worms, curl grubs etc), will have something yummy to stuff themselves on beforehand, leaving your lawn roots to happily grow strong and healthy AND you can practice using your new lawn mower!! Re: Green Manure Advice 8Mar 18, 2011 11:59 am Psst... organic orchardists and vineyards in Europe will grow a mix of vetch and sub-clovers (Trifolium subteranneum in their orchard to provide a constant supply of nutrients to the fruit trees. The sub-clover grows really well over winter, copes with being mown and provides lots of protein to break down and feed the soil (remulch on the mower). However, it can become a weed in crop and vegetable beds because it will seed freely so would need to be controlled in some manner (preferably non-chemical). You can take a look at this site:http://eap.mcgill.ca/publications/EAP51.htm Info relates to agriculture obviously, but will give you some more detailed info on how green manuring works and what the pros and cons are. Re: Green Manure Advice 11Apr 05, 2011 12:53 pm He's in W.A. Kerry- a couple of hours behind our Eastern States! Deemaree Kyndylan Capers: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=46852 My blog: http://www.sufficientlysufficient.blogspot.com/ Re: Green Manure Advice 12Apr 05, 2011 3:59 pm I know, but he still only ever comes out at night. Then there's the Fu signal... His cloud of mystery... Re: Green Manure Advice 13Apr 05, 2011 8:27 pm Maybe he's a twinkling Twilighter? Deemaree Kyndylan Capers: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=46852 My blog: http://www.sufficientlysufficient.blogspot.com/ Re: Green Manure Advice 14Apr 05, 2011 9:28 pm Er...? Tries to plumb the depths of her pop culture knowledge... A vampire?! Can you be an organic vampire I wonder? Re: Green Manure Advice 15Apr 05, 2011 10:09 pm Well if I were, I know who all my targets would be. You are all safe The people who want this sort of info kept from you are not. mmmmwwwwwuuuuuhahahah Re: Green Manure Advice 16Apr 06, 2011 11:40 am Deemaree Kyndylan Capers: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=46852 My blog: http://www.sufficientlysufficient.blogspot.com/ Versaloc is a mortarless besser block system that still needs a properly engineered footing. If you just do a 400x200 footing it will fail in time. At 17m long you need it… 1 17559 Thank you so much for the effort. We will use it to talk with builder. We also had idea of building duplex instead and seeking suggest ions. viewtopic.php?f=31&t=106744 11 13833 Hi All, I engaged a tradie to install concrete retaining wall 600-800mm high over 32 meters in Victoria. Sleepers are 200*75*2000 mm installed over 17 steel posts. I… 0 6901 |