A bit of controversy here... and some more there

Time to weigh in

(Opps I thought this was my Weight watchers meeting)

The way I see it was when Australia was colonised by the first inhabitants over time they learnt the cycles of nature (they may have made many mistakes however without any records we would never know)
From learning by watching nature and the cycles they became masters of the landscape, able to provide the basics to survive and delevop there culture over a space on 1000's of years

When the British came to Australia they brought with them agricultral practises developed over 1000's of years from a different climate.
Applying the same practices that were used successfully in Britian failed miserably.
we have had 200 years of trying understand the climate and develop new practises however we have also have had population growth exponetially
through science we have seen advances in Wheat, and Wool and literally our country was built off the merino's back
However we have taken yet baby steps in understanding the unique climate, soil, and flora in our wide brown land compared to the first inhabitants due to time scale IMO

10's of thousands of years

Much of the problems can be the concept that Australians are just Americans in training.

It was after the end of WW2 that Australian culture changed greatly to follow that of the US. Housing, car design ( yes by Holden and ford) and of course landscape style. This is where landscapes went from being productive useful spaces to ones of decoration only. Lawn became king and it's stayed and now become so important to home ownership that some think it necessary to wean off lawn by covering large areas in ver conked plastics that decorate an area to look like lawn. At great environmental cost. I feel like yelling, "you're doing it wrong!"
To me plastic grass is like seeing a heroin addict go on methadone. We are absolutely besotted by lawn.

Hopefully we are witnessing a new change for those that do get it.

Pre WW2 most gardens had chooks, veggie gardens and a cottage garden was exactly what it should be, somewhere to grow herbs and medicinal plants.

Let's hope we see a decommercialised return to good landscape investment in productive gardens. Landscapes and gardens that bring communities together and get neighbors talking and sharing good food and produce.

Landscapes and gardens like that have proven to eliminate crime and increase community well being.

Ditto to everything you are saying Fu!!!!!! Well done

Hi Fu,at night we sit and watch t.v and see ads. for "no watering,no mowing and no weeding"plastic grass and the next morning we take the dog for a walk and see a plastic lawn that was laid a few months ago and every type of weed seed under the sun has been trapped in it and is completely covered in weeds!!!

Topiarius

Must resist commenting, must resist.....



I really hope you tweeted that

Can I ask if there are many community gardens over WA way? There seem to be a few around Melbourne, but not nearly as many as we had in the UK.

By law, councils in the UK have to set aside land for allotments, or plots, if people request them. Some of these are statutory sites, where the council cannot sell them without giving a really good reason and setting aside further land to replace them. Others are temporary, where the land would otherwise be unused, say a future development site. Does this happen here?

They are not community gardens in the same way as the ones I've seen near us, where the produce is often shared, but rather divided into small parcels of land that you can rent (for around $80 pa on average - but sometimes as little as $20pa). Most people use these for growing fruit and veg to maintain a degree of self-sufficiency, others for raising chooks as in the UK, most councils don't allow chooks in gardens.

When I was a child, I lived in a town of around 5,500 people (it's closer to 7,000 now), which had been dependant on coal mines and shipyards for employment. As the people were relatively poor, increasingly so as the mines closed in the 60s and the shipyard work moved elsewhere, allotments were always popular. There are 4 areas in the town that are set aside for allotments and are still used now - there are waiting lists. I lived right next to one and loved being woken by the cockerels in the morning, helping the plot holders dig, pick their fruit and veg or collect their eggs and watching the greyhounds on one allotment race around their mini-track. We were always being given bunches of flowers to take to our mums on mothers' day or sacks of potatoes when they had too many. I wasn't so fond of the geese that were always escaping into our back garden and chasing me when I went out to play though!

In the UK, the popularity of allotments waxes and wanes with both need and what's big on tv. They were big when you could easily starve without one, then the industrial revolution and the move to larger scale farming meant land grabbing and less land was alloted to the poor, then the the provision became important in Victorian times (the Victorians liked to keep poor people busy to stop them drinking and getting in trouble), then they were really important for feeding the nation during the world wars, before popularity dropped drastically. During the 70s, there was a tv show called 'The Good Life', which made allotments popular for a short while, then Hugh Ferny-Whittingstall (sp.) made them popular again in the late 90s with his River Cottage series.

They're still not as popular as they once were, but with rising food prices and increased desire for organic produce, they are likely to take off again in the next few years.

All the things they make claim too I have put great effort into debunking for real turf owners. Ultimately it is the turf industry itself that is its own worst enemy. They are doing all the work for the plastic grass mobs by giving advice that only serves to feed an industry. Not to ultimately give problem free turf.

Loving Homeone member, Nigel Ruck's new Sir Walter adds Great stuff

The number people I know in landscape maintenance that regularly spray weed killers on plastic grass is a laugh So Many

Laying on the crap would be like sitting in a hot car parked in a shopping centre...mmmm relaxing

We have got a park recently fitted out with synthetic, because of the unusually cool summer temps here its actually great to sit on because its so warm It's infested with kikuyu and dog/pigeon **** sits on it for days.

The only place I've seen the synthetic lawn stuff used is in Dandenong town centre - they've put some in the pedestrian area. It looks 'funny' and feels weird when you stand on it, but I guess they wanted a garden look without as much effort and I think it can get a bit rowdy down there, so it's easier to remove the beer bottles and cigarette butts I guess!

Good on you Kerry F for starting this post. It has certainly created much debate and hopefully we have all learnt something from it!

See I disagree with some of the posts about synthetic turf. We have it around the beach area in the pool - it is great for the kids rather then sitting on the hard pavers.

We are also ripping up the real turf under the clothesline and putting artificial down as it is only a small area and hard to access with the mower. The kids fort / playground area will also have a combination of softfall and artificial turf.

Ours has been down for over 6mths with no signs of any weeds.

The reason it is working for you is because you are using synthetic for it's intended purpose, an alternative to a hard surface. It's replacement for real turf/garden beds is the problem.

I was quite interested in seeing what people thought of the original statement I quoted, but turns out that we've all learnt something by this thread - I certainly have!

That's the good thing about tangents and forums where you don't get threads closed down as soon as they go mildly off topic or people display opinions that don't match that of others.

It's sometimes hard to accept that people have different points of view based on their personalities, upbringing, past experiences, current situation... a whole range of variables that cause one individual to see an event in an entirely different way to that of another. It doesn't mean that they are 'wrong' or that you're 'right' - just that their personal opinion is different to yours.

The key to acceptance, learning and advancement is being able to listen to a myriad of different opinions, no matter how controversial, investigate them of your own accord and decide independantly on their various merits or pitfalls. Never blindly accept another persons opinion as fact and never dismiss an opinion as being incorrect, just because it doesn't match what you personally believe.

This is how we will tackle the problems that our local environments, Australia, and the world as a whole, face. By listening to the array of different opinions and doing our own research, we all come to accept, to a greater or lesser degree, the problems that exist. From the experience of other people (like Fu!), we are learn new methods and techniques, or re-learn old ones, and apply these to our current and future situations - thus we advance

it is the combined effect of environmental costs and cumulative effects on urban climates that is the concern for many in sustainability. As is is right now, we have enough plastic to see us into the foreseeable future by recycling what we have. Now we are seeking to cover large areas with new plastics that have enormous thermal mass. Plastics are a very complex area due to the power plastics companies have. They can finance counter studies.

Granted this is relative to food but gives an insight into what the different types are and their effects on us.
http://green.yahoo.com/blog/care2/213/w ... -food.html
http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... isphenol-a
It is most commonly heat which causes much of the dioxins and other chemicals to leach out into the environment and this stuff has a massive ability to absorb and store it. Again it is the cumulative effects over an urban environment that are the concern.

http://www.ehhi.org/reports/turf/health_effects.shtml
http://softleafbuffalograss.com.au/buff ... ncrete.php

I sit here biting my tongue..

And, do. not. start me on America.

Republicans = elephant in the room.
Democrats = jackass.
Both = on the take.
Democracy = non existent.
Plutocracy = HAHAHA!

Why does America push Monsanto? Because if it wins it can tax the world for the act of eating food.
The same taxes are already applicable to...

Money swaps.
Credit Swaps.
Oil purchases
Oil Swaps
Mass Media and entertainment.
Majority of news publication.
Majority ownership of ....
Nylon
Dacron
Glues
Synthetic clothing
Computers
IDE
USB
and so on.

Everytime you buy these things you pay a tax, a tax regardless of stupid copyright laws and patent laws, a tax even though half had expired 3 decades ago. A tax is a tax and America is taxing us and wants to tax us more..

If you don't they will bring you freedom...

Ahhhh....

Has anybody seen the documentary "The World According to Monsanto"?

You can watch it free online here

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-worl ... -monsanto/

Well worth watching.

An excellent link



This is also occurring in NewZealand now.

My mum must have been before her time because when she planted out our garden twenty odd years ago, she used nothing but natives. We had to hand water to get them established but we haven't had to water our garden in years. No retic and no hand watering - for almost a decade. They are established gardens thriving in their natural environment on the natural water supply. Large trees have been planted to shelter the house from the summer sun yet allow light and warmth from the winter sun. The fauna is spectacular too. We have a wide variety of birds, nests, geckos, butterflies, bees, insects etc. Our garden is a haven for them away from all the neighbours endless palm trees & grass. We do not have a single blade of grass in our garden and don't miss out on anything. In the twenty years we have been in this house, we have never had an from of crime while other neighbours have. I find it amazing that mum's gardening 'style' is now taking off here in Perth.

I have a new neighbour behind me and am loving him so far. He has decked out the garden with fruit trees, vegie plot and herb garden. He has just introduced some chickens too and often we come home to find a bag over the fence full of mangoes, tomatoes, eggs, basil, mint etc because he has an over supply so is sharing it with his neighbours. Makes for a great neighbourly relationship.

I am trading Onions, basil, chives, mint, marjoram, sage, bay leaves, passion fruit, thyme and Vietnamese mint for lemons, dates, figs, limes.

Next year that list will include table grapes. So yum! Our first crop was this year, I ate them all.

(Water melon, grapes, pear, plums, orange or mandarin in natural yogurt with lemon, salt, sugar and passion fruit freshly squeezed. Condensed milk with or in place of yogurt works well).

I had been going to post something, but Redman made me feel hungry so I'm going to go and make dinner instead!!