Browse Forums Landscape & Garden Design 1 Jan 23, 2010 7:03 pm Hi there, well we are nearing the end of our tiresome build and the kind SS has allowed me to prep my soil ready for turf or seed so that it is down when we move in, with 2 kiddies a cat and a dog it's a MUST DO on my list. We are in Warrnambool Victoria and have (H) class soil, it has alot of clay and is EXTREMLEY hard and dry in summer and a mud pool in winter, our neighbours have said two words regarding our block as it is sloping down and that is "good luck" I'm really wanting to do this right so I don't have to do it again. I need desperate help as I know how important it is to get the soil right first I don't want to be wasting my time or money on unprepared earth. trouble is I am wanting to try and cut cost and do the work myself with kiddies in tow so it will be a fun challenge to say the least but hey kids and dirt im sure they'll have fun. Here is what I was thinking of doing any other suggestions VERY VERY WELCOME PlEASE. I have started raking the top of the soil to remove as much stone and rubbish etc then I was going to lay Gipsom down to break down the clay then add about 4inchs thick of sandalone top soil???? is this all I need to do or am I missing a few key things Here's a couple of photo's to give you idea's Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=19655 FINALLY slab down 5th SEPT Oct 16 Bricking/ plaster starting Dec 1 Painting started END OF CONTRACT IS UP SOON HURRY UP AND FINISH MY HOME..... countdown to 27th Feb. LATROBE 320 WITH DENNIS FAMILY HOMES Re: SOIL PREP help!!!! I need this ready for turf or seed in 4wk 2Jan 23, 2010 7:32 pm some things you need to know straight off. One is for gods sake don't use a seeded turf! These can be very very hungry for water in summer. best option is an instant variety and IMO Empire Zoysia is the go, Grasshopper will tell you a Buffalo. Either way you are dead right to say the soil prep is vital. The second thing is the gypsum won't really begin breaking up the clay for some years after it is applied. Again an even better reason to do better soil prep. Spend the money on the soil where ever possible rather than the plants. A certified organic soil will begin to break up that clay far quicker than gypsum will but that also doesn't mean don't use gypsum. By all means do, just don't rely on it Powerfeed, olsens green bio etc etc, have a search on my posts relating to soil prep. I can't type this stuff out every time someone does a garden Being a heavier clay, add sand to the soil. However you do it, a mixed layer of soil, sand and the existing clay is the go to 400mm. less than that means a compromise on the future strength of your lawns root system and that is going to directly effect your lawns appearance. A rotary tiller will need to be hired and even a small jack hammer The same goes for garden beds. If instant turf is out of the question, then use shredded buffalo instead, just not seed. If you do use seed well... make it a Munns one if you have too do it There are people in the industry who want those types of seeded lawns banned from Australian shelves. there is also the need for drainage at the base of your lawn area and there is a great story in this at the sbs web page for Costas Garden Odyssey I'll have to find it later or best you can have a browse of that page. It shows you step by step for an area just like yours look for "Costas water works, denuded wasteland" might be on the right of screen. Re: SOIL PREP help!!!! I need this ready for turf or seed in 4wk 3Jan 23, 2010 7:55 pm viewtopic.php?f=19&t=21938 and this search link should also help out search.php?keywords=soil+&terms=all&author=Fu+Manchu&fid[]=19&sc=1&sf=all&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search Re: SOIL PREP help!!!! I need this ready for turf or seed in 4wk 4Jan 23, 2010 8:31 pm FU, Thank you sharing your your wealth of knowledge with me I will be off tomorrow to source out Powerfeed, olsens green bio and hire equipment etc. Wish me luck I'll keep u posted. https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=19655 FINALLY slab down 5th SEPT Oct 16 Bricking/ plaster starting Dec 1 Painting started END OF CONTRACT IS UP SOON HURRY UP AND FINISH MY HOME..... countdown to 27th Feb. LATROBE 320 WITH DENNIS FAMILY HOMES Re: SOIL PREP help!!!! I need this ready for turf or seed in 4wk 5Jan 23, 2010 8:51 pm if you can get lots of zeolite and spongolite in the soil. Hydroponics shops will have those You might choose to wear a fake moustache and glasses when you go in there The more the merrier Agricultural suppliers often have zeolite for adding to cattle feed for stomach health and improved digestion for the animals. It does just the same for your soils microecology Re: SOIL PREP help!!!! I need this ready for turf or seed in 4wk 6Jan 23, 2010 9:22 pm Fu Manchu if you can get lots of zeolite and spongolite in the soil. Hydroponics shops will have those You might choose to wear a fake moustache and glasses when you go in there The more the merrier Agricultural suppliers often have zeolite for adding to cattle feed for stomach health and improved digestion for the animals. It does just the same for your soils microecology DONE I've just had a sqiz at that thread you sent through gosh that's some brilliant info. But now It's made me freak out at the amount of work ahead of me the area is 300m2 to do and that's not including the front. I'm a little concerned, being that we live in Warrnambool we don't have many landscaping places apart from the most common places like Bunnings etc. Turf has to be bought in from Geelong but I agree it's a much better option than seed. In our current house I put some turf down after removing a garden bed the turf I was suggested to buy was called Tall fescue (mind the spelling if it's wrong I'm going by memory ) it's been down for 3 years now and it's not to bad, summer it's a bit patchy but apart from that it's been quite good. do you think this variety would be ok? it's fairly reasonable in price $6 a metre https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=19655 FINALLY slab down 5th SEPT Oct 16 Bricking/ plaster starting Dec 1 Painting started END OF CONTRACT IS UP SOON HURRY UP AND FINISH MY HOME..... countdown to 27th Feb. LATROBE 320 WITH DENNIS FAMILY HOMES Re: SOIL PREP help!!!! I need this ready for turf or seed in 4wk 8Jan 23, 2010 9:28 pm ok have you another variety I can ask for? https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=19655 FINALLY slab down 5th SEPT Oct 16 Bricking/ plaster starting Dec 1 Painting started END OF CONTRACT IS UP SOON HURRY UP AND FINISH MY HOME..... countdown to 27th Feb. LATROBE 320 WITH DENNIS FAMILY HOMES Re: SOIL PREP help!!!! I need this ready for turf or seed in 4wk 10Jan 24, 2010 11:32 am thechlochlo Hi there, well we are nearing the end of our tiresome build and the kind SS has allowed me to prep my soil ready for turf or seed so that it is down when we move in, with 2 kiddies a cat and a dog it's a MUST DO on my list. We are in Warrnambool Victoria and have (H) class soil, it has alot of clay and is EXTREMLEY hard and dry in summer and a mud pool in winter, our neighbours have said two words regarding our block as it is sloping down and that is "good luck" I'm really wanting to do this right so I don't have to do it again. I need desperate help as I know how important it is to get the soil right first I don't want to be wasting my time or money on unprepared earth. Hi, that's a very similar story to mine. And 4 weeks yikes that's going to be very tight, unless you take time off work or drag it on a bit. Sorry about the length of this reply but I've learned in life "buy it cheap but it twice" and "all short cuts prove to be long cuts". The first and most important thing is WATER management, soil comes next. Does you yard have too much water, you can always add some if it needs more, albeit it at a cost but it can be done. If you have too much, like we did then you have a big problem. Wet feet, root rot, mold and a mushy yard. To manage excess water, we added a French drain, 400x400mm all around the yard, with a 100mm ag-line underneath, note, it's the rocks that do most of the work not the ag-line. Levels. I built the middle up, it was like a bowl, being clay based the water just sat in the hole for weeks! Irrigation. Before turf is laid must decide if underground pipes or irrigation systems will be used. NOW THE SOIL. I spoke with all the local turf sellers, they all just said "get 100mm of turf base and put that onto your current land". Well I have a big problem with that advice, that means 270m2 or 27m3 or 35 tons worth. That's one very big pile of dirt to pay for and labour with! Was it the only way? 1. I spoke with my parents, ex farmers. They never brought soil in, always cultivated what they already had. 2. I spoke with the turf farmers, the one I'm buying turf from, they said "100mm of turf base will work" but "a far better way is to hire a rotary hoe and cultivate what you already have". 3. I discovered this site and Fu, again, similar advice, "feed the soil not the plant". I can't get "certified organic soil" as Fu talks about but I'll use the best I can get. This advice is in the minority but (in chronological order) I have my parents, the turf farmer and Fu all saying similar things so I'm totally confident it will work. I'll be hiring a rotary hoe for the weekend ($137) plus some enrichment soil versus blindly dumping 35 tons of turf base ($1200) and still paying for it in years to come. The front yard doesn't have any soil, it is just building rubbish, sand, mortar, clay, blue metal dust and whatever else was thrown there. That's a different story. DRIVE AROUND I've been driving and asking some lively people how they keep the lawn looking so great. I learned that you can pay a fortune for buffallo turf, Sir Walter, Palmetto or whatever else and if you don't love your lawn it will look like rubbish! Especially if all you did was dump some "turf base" on a building site! I've seen well loved Kikuyu lawns, again spectacular, I mean turf not crazy wild grass. The common ingredient was love and care. The best lawns had no big water problems, plenty of good soil to begin with, regular mowing, I mean once a week and always high, never low, they watered if and when required, usually not that often but kept a keen eye on it. Applied fertilizer or whatever lawn food in season. Hope that helps, Best wishes. Re: SOIL PREP help!!!! I need this ready for turf or seed in 4wk 11Jan 24, 2010 11:59 am Some excellent info and observations Good soil is also a part of the bigger picture of water management. The two go hand in hand With good soil, you get less run off. In the dryer times which forms the bigger part of the year, you get better water retention. There are still poor practices being recommended in our various hort industries but the various associations of horticulture are working very hard to change that Yes you can get a nice looking lawn from fertilisers and care and attention, but what my advice is all about is about reducing the impact suburban lawns are having on the environment. The Pros can use these things very effectively and they have to be efficient in their use as well because the costs associated with fertilisers and pesticides are huge for commercial use. Domestically is the problem, where folks get so much poor advice and urban myths abound about what is best. As organic as possible is the go. There is a huge void of information for domestic gardeners and landscapers. The info we commonly get comes from that of the commercial turf industry, but as I said, the way we interpret and apply the same ideas domestically is going pear shaped. Here in WA, being fertilserwise is just as important as being waterwise. Our rivers and wetlands are coping a hammering. Our metro area of Perth uses 30% of the entire nations fertiliser supply!!! That is disgusting and we don't have to have it that way. Frogs and the like disappearing and these factors are just one part of various causes. We need healthier soils as a priority and fertilisers don't make those. A thin layer of soil will mean you have a thin and small root system. Re: SOIL PREP help!!!! I need this ready for turf or seed in 4wk 12Jan 24, 2010 9:49 pm Fu & thechlochlo, Just saw this thread, Fu would you still recommend a warm seaon grass for Warrnambool considering it only has 3 months or so a year with average temps just over 20 degrees? I have been there a bit and it is cold & wet in aut/winter/spring with average early/mid spring temps of 16 & 17 degrees according to the bom. You don't want the case of the turf being dormant most of the year and lush for a couple of months. Or is that warm enough for EZ and SW? Might be better to have a zero retic green lawn of cool season turf 10 months of the year and browner one for a few months over summer? thechlochlo, any chance you have seen what other people's lawns are? Give you a good idea on how diff variaties will go. Cheers, B Re: SOIL PREP help!!!! I need this ready for turf or seed in 4wk 13Jan 25, 2010 7:33 am Fu Manchu Some excellent info and observations Good soil is also a part of the bigger picture of water management. The two go hand in hand With good soil, you get less run off. In the dryer times which forms the bigger part of the year, you get better water retention. That's true, soil helps manage water flow and visa versa but the type of water management I was talking about was beyond what soil alone can deal with. We live in relatively flat yards, "a builders dream", who would think there'd be any problems but there is a slope and the water flows from yard to yard by all accounts creating very mushy backyards. You'd never know it now but many decades ago the area was a swamp and I think there are some residual geographical elements that want to keep it that way. The neighbours that have French drains, open channel drains, ag-lines or whatever else have relatively normal yards, the rest wallow about in mush. I could be wrong but I don't believe soil alone can mitigate this problem. Re: SOIL PREP help!!!! I need this ready for turf or seed in 4wk 14Feb 04, 2010 9:58 pm SW/Pal would be a better option than EZ with the temperatures previously quoted. They'll stay green for much more than 2 mths of the year, don't go the seed/fescue route. in the end, you get what you pay for. talk to Anco turf supplies. Re: SOIL PREP help!!!! I need this ready for turf or seed in 4wk 15Feb 05, 2010 8:55 am grasshopper SW/Pal would be a better option than EZ with the temperatures previously quoted. They'll stay green for much more than 2 mths of the year, don't go the seed/fescue route. in the end, you get what you pay for. talk to Anco turf supplies. Thanks grasshopper, I've spoken to Anco many times they were very helpful, They suggested the tall fescue turf for here but I have ended up doing something a bit different. After many days of digging and raking and putting 400kg of Gypsum through I had organic soil delivered which I had spread and then yesterday I had some Hydro seeding sprayed. It's seed which is compounded with recycled paper and has all the fertilizers needed mixed through, it is then spayed on and looks abit like someone has painted your backyard with Blue/green spray paint I've seen a house around the corner from us which has had it and so far 2 weeks into it it's looking amazing so we will wait and see, FINGERS CROSSED I found Hydro seeding very cost effective compared to turf $540 for 340sq as apposed to $3245 for Turf. the other pro to this is it's fast germination (if looked after) it will be walkable and mowable in about 3/4 weeks. Another Pro is that it does not blow away in the wind as it is firmly stuck to the dirt thus giving an even coverage. So overall I was sold on the idea, but we will wait with baited breath and hope we have some beautiful Lush soon. We will be building planter boxes around the circumference of the fence line with Hebel Blocks and planting screen plants Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ up close Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ this is what it should look like in about 7days, excuse the blurry photo. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=19655 FINALLY slab down 5th SEPT Oct 16 Bricking/ plaster starting Dec 1 Painting started END OF CONTRACT IS UP SOON HURRY UP AND FINISH MY HOME..... countdown to 27th Feb. LATROBE 320 WITH DENNIS FAMILY HOMES Re: SOIL PREP help!!!! I need this ready for turf or seed in 4wk 16Feb 06, 2010 1:03 pm good luck, just hope you don't get a hot dry summer. what you'll get is quick gemination, but not a long term lawn. Go and buy a dozen rolls of SW/Pal, cut them up and plant them randomly around your lawn. You wont regret it next year. Look at some of Fu's posts on seeded varieties. Re: SOIL PREP help!!!! I need this ready for turf or seed in 4wk 17Feb 06, 2010 10:46 pm you're not comparing apples with apples when using these types of methods. What is the germination rate? They should provide that sort of info. Also what you are ultimately paying for is just the spray on paper. As an add on they chuck in some seed. be careful not to fall into the trap of throwing water and fertilisers on this stuff to keep it going. It will quite naturally look great over coming months particularly winter months and early spring. Post the results up this time next year too Re: SOIL PREP help!!!! I need this ready for turf or seed in 4wk 18Feb 08, 2010 7:37 pm Probably not the greatest time to be seeding but as long as u keep the water up it will be right. Fescue blend (I assume you are using) will be great for your area for 10 months of the year with little input apart from mowing and fertilizing (the Fu way). It will struggle when you get a string of days over 30 though, so you will have to expect it to get crispy rather than pour crazy amounts of water into it. It will come back after browning off in autumn but if the area gets plenty of traffic when dormant you will need to patch spots. If it doesn't cut it chuck runners of your choice through it as suggested you have the prep done anyway. Re: SOIL PREP help!!!! I need this ready for turf or seed in 4wk 19Feb 09, 2010 1:24 am Keeping the water up to it is why many who live turf would like to see it removed from domestic sale. Re: SOIL PREP help!!!! I need this ready for turf or seed in 4wk 20Feb 09, 2010 8:06 am What i said was keep the water up at establishment/seeding only like any turf. With the rainfall/climate in the area the turf will not need any additional water for 10 months of the year (we are talking near tassie like weather for most of the year). Water shouldn't be pumped into it to try and keep it super lush green over jan/feb because it is a waste of resources. I see where you are coming from Fu totally, but sometimes the "dirty" grass can be used. Use a product like Equisol's Vitalise to clean the deck then coat with a penetrating timber oil. It will look 10 years younger and add value to your home. Visit for… 1 15795 They using concrete or timber sleepers? Timber or steel uprights? Any drainage behind sleeper? 3 5879 I am not sure whether Perth has its own way of doing things in regards to this. Most of Perth has class A (sandy soil), except for some areas near rivers or hills. 2 13098 |