Browse Forums Landscape & Garden Design 1 Nov 03, 2009 10:00 am Hi everyone! I wondered if anyone had some advice for me on this topic please. I am about to install a drip irrigation system in my small front yard in Sydney. I have several questions ..... 1. All the literature I can find says to be wary of installing drip systems on sloping ground because the pressures will vary along the drip lines, resulting in some plants being over-watered and others being under-watered. But I have found that the average mains water pressure in Sydney is 50m head, with maximum and minimum of 100m and 15m. If I use a 300 kPa (= 30m head) pressure reducer, I will end up with somewhere between 15 & 30 m head pressure. Now I have a 2m fall across the yard, so it seems to me that the likely variation of pressure along any line can be no more than 2m head in 15m, which isn't very much. Even if I use "leaky hose", with a recommended pressure of only 10m head, the pressure difference along the line because of slope will only be 20%. I don't know the plant requirements on my soil to that accuracy! So I don't think I need to worry, but can anyone offer any comment please? 2. I want to install a drip system for a small area of lawn that remains ( I don't like pop-up sprinklers), and which we are about to re-lay with turfs. I was thinking of laying "leaky hose" just under the soil surface and then laying turfs. Has anyone had experience with doing this please? Thanks for your help. Re: Drip irrigation on a slope 2Nov 03, 2009 10:23 am If you can get the water entering the system from the top of the slope, then add the disc filter and the highflo pressure reducer. A general rule of thumb with using subsurface on a slope is for closer spacings between the lines at the top and wider at the bottom. Use say a 200mm gap at the top, and a 350-400mm gap at the base. As for subsurface under turf, don't even attempt that yourself. You will need to have an RPZ valve installed by a licensed plumber and use the disc filter that has a mild herbicide impregnated into the plastic to prevent the fine hair roots of the turf from intruding on the emitters. Very high $$$ outlay for what is a very small area. The domestic bench mark for lawns is in the use of MP rotators. These use streams of water as opposed to a wasteful spray from the pop ups. They cost around $20ea and can be retrofitted to any existing popup. I would like to see the spray style pop ups banned as well as micro spray irrigation. (Those bloody fine sprays on sticks = not cool ) If you want some serious technical advice I can put you onto a NetaFim rep if you want. Or the guys over east will be happy to answer an email from you I thoroughly recommend the use of Netafim as opposed to any other brand for some significant reasons. I have never had issue with their product Ever. MPs in action... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHl3JzT45BU Re: Drip irrigation on a slope 3Nov 03, 2009 1:37 pm Thanks for a very prompt reply. Just a few follow-up comments/questions please. 1. I have located a local NetaFim retailer and will be visiting. Thanks. 2. I assume by your comments that you are agreeing with me that slopes are not necessarily the problem they are sometimes said to be, and that you are suggesting running pipes downhill? (This seems logical to me as the increased pressure head at the bottom end is partially compensated for by the head loss in the line. 3. I note your comments about underground drippers, but would Aquapore, weeping hose, leaky hose and the like suffer the same problem? I would have thought they would be less prone to root invasion, and had a much greater water release are to be clogged up by roots, and so would last much longer. (I'm not real keen on the MP rotators or the herbicide approach, though obviously have to consider everything.) Thanks again. Re: Drip irrigation on a slope 4Nov 04, 2009 3:06 pm a fool and their money are soon parted Use netafim only Re: Drip irrigation on a slope 5Nov 04, 2009 3:07 pm PM me your email and I'll send you some things to help you out with this Re: Drip irrigation on a slope 6Nov 04, 2009 3:09 pm As for under turf I can not stress the importance of using MP's. You absolutely must use the specialised filters and back flow valves (RPZ) for under turf, no matter what product and no matter how big or small the application. Anyone in irrigation who is in the know will tell you to steer clear of the other products mentioned This is the RPZ valve Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ it will protect your domestic water supply from contamination from fertilisers and herbicides. Re: Drip irrigation on a slope 7Nov 27, 2009 8:36 am Thanks for all your advice so far. I have been following up on these matters, and have a couple of extra questions please. 1. You mentioned a backflow valve if I put in an under-turf system with herbicide. I am not going to do that now. Is this the only situation where a backflow valve is required? 2. Because I have gone away from underground for the lawn, I am interested again in MP rotators. Can you tell me where in Sydney to get them please? (The Netafim dealer I found and mentioned before has actually gone out of business.) Or is getting them from "Wet Earth" online a good option? 3. Just out of interest, what is the deal with Netafim? There is a water company "Neta", but I presume they are different? I also notice that some products at my local Bunnings are jointly labelled "Holman" and "Netafim" - are they sold by Holman under license to Netafim (which I presume is an overseas company)? Thanks for additional help. Re: Drip irrigation on a slope 8Nov 27, 2009 1:11 pm http://www.netafim.com.au/index.php?sectionid=15 Quote: 1. You mentioned a backflow valve if I put in an under-turf system with herbicide. I am not going to do that now. Is this the only situation where a backflow valve is required? You always must use a brass check valve or back flow valve at the very start of any irrigation system. It needs to be located after the manual shut off and before the master valve or pump valve. These are installed by the plumber when connecting the irrigation off take from the mains near the metre where water pressure is at it's best. When using subsurface irrigation under lawn, it is required that an RPZ valve be installed in addition to the check valve which insures that the herbicide from the filter and nutrients from fertilisers do not enter the domestic water supply to not only your house but the whole system. If you go with MPs which is great, you will need the filter that looks the same but is black and has no herbicide in it. This needs to be located somewhere at the start of the system where it will be easy to get to. You can't get away with using those crappy inline filters. This is what is required with the discs inside not a screen Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: Drip irrigation on a slope 9Nov 27, 2009 1:30 pm Quote: 3. Just out of interest, what is the deal with Netafim? There is a water company "Neta", but I presume they are different? Yes they are different Quote: I also notice that some products at my local Bunnings are jointly labelled "Holman" and "Netafim" - are they sold by Holman under license to Netafim (which I presume is an overseas company)? It is manufactured here in Perth at Holmans Ossie Park factory under licence from Netafim. It is advisable that the genuine Netafim product is used. Look for "Techline AS" at your local irrigation shop. Although it may look the same it isn't. Netafim were not silly in doing this because the Techline AS has a much more advanced emitter, in fact it is the difference in the long term of it either working or not working. There is more to this but not for discussion here There is also the one that looks like a snake that swallowed a mouse. I have had headaches with this type and so have many in the irrigation industry. This is why the Netafim Techline AS is the one used by the best in irrigation and landscaping. Netafim is an Israeli company. Israel is where all the best irrigation technology comes from. Being so desolate they invest seriously large sums of money into irrigation technology for crop production. There and the US. Re: Drip irrigation on a slope 10Nov 27, 2009 1:45 pm Quote: 2. Because I have gone away from underground for the lawn, I am interested again in MP rotators. Can you tell me where in Sydney to get them please? (The Netafim dealer I found and mentioned before has actually gone out of business.) Or is getting them from "Wet Earth" online a good option? For your Netafim outlets, http://www.netafim.com.au/index.php?sectionid=8 As for MP's well I exclusively use the hunter MP rotator. I find the reliability to be excellent on them. Then again many other irrigation guys will have their prefered brand. Just having a squiz at the wetearth website, http://www.wetearth.com.au/Netafim-Techline-AS-Dripline ,some good prices and I guess having it all rock up at your door is great. If you need a few bits and pieces here and there though, you need to know a near by irrigation shop. Reece over east is doing irrigation these days. I much prefer going into the irrigation shop, you will learn more from the folks there. You can interact and get advice easily and get to know them a bit so when you encounter problems they know the job sort of and can help better http://www.irrigation.org.au/index.cfm? ... panyID=453 http://www.irrigation.org.au/index.cfm?event=searchPS For those others who are interested here are other places to look. http://www.duralirrigation.com.au/onlinestore/ http://www.totaleden.com.au/ http://www.thewatershed.com.au/ http://www.irrigationwarehouse.com.au/ http://www.thewatershed.biz/ http://www.polypipetraders.com.au/ Re: Drip irrigation on a slope 11Nov 27, 2009 5:59 pm AS for the downhill slope thing, Netafim Techline is pressure compensated so that each emitter will put out amount of water (1.6 or 3.0 litres). As for lawn sprinklers i use Toro 570, just a personal preferance. Stay away from from cheap Bunnings brands. Re: Drip irrigation on a slope 12Nov 27, 2009 7:24 pm Excellent point. For those reading this, the emitters inside the pipe have a pressure regulating insert made from silicon. very clever design Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ The Toro 570 series are a great nozzle for popups and risers but the MP's are far more efficient in delivering the water to the soil with a minimum of water lost to the air even in windy areas. The older spray nozzles like the Toro 570's lose somewhere around 40% to the air and more in windy situations. I don't use the Toro 570's much anymore. They are pressure regulated as well so they emit a calibrated amount of water per minute regardless of pressure. You won't buy ones like em in that other place mentioned above that's for sure Re: Drip irrigation on a slope 13Nov 27, 2009 9:07 pm "You always must use a brass check valve or back flow valve at the very start of any irrigation system. It needs to be located after the manual shut off and before the master valve or pump valve. These are installed by the plumber when connecting the irrigation off take from the mains near the metre where water pressure is at it's best." Can I clarify here please? 1. I was only going to use a plumber to install a second tap from which I would run the watering system. I was going to do it myself after that, it isn't a large garden. Were you thinking it was big? 2. I understand why a backflow valve is needed if there is herbicide in the line, but why does any other watering system need the backflow valve whereas a hose with trigger nozzle does not? Or do you think all hoses should have a backfrom device? I don't really understand this, I'm sorry. Thanks again. Re: Drip irrigation on a slope 14Nov 28, 2009 11:29 am That's cool mate, it is a valid question. Now days all exterior taps do have a check valve on them. This stops water being drawn back into the domestic system. When you shut off a tap there is a moment when water is drawn back. It is a saftey device really. At sometime in the future who knows what can enter the system. Lets say someone down the road is filling a container full of pesticides. They have no check device on the garden tap. They may switch off the tap and a small amount of pesticide can potentially enter the domestic supply. On another note, lets say your irrigation develops a break you don't know about for a while. This can allow soil and bacteria into your domestic supply. Lets say you apply a pesticide to your garden beds, you have subsurface irrigation fitted and the pesticide has a path way into your domestic water supply without the check valve in place. Make sure the plumber runs his takeoff from the larger 20mm copper pipe and not the smaller 15mm copper pipe which will create headaches at some point in even the simplest systems. Even if your property is small, using a manual tap set up is not advised. The system can become wasteful of water very easily regardless of the irrigation types used if there is no automated regulation of the water. These automated set ups don't have to be complicated at all. You just need a simple power source. You can use small solenoid valves that are similar to that found in washing machines and dishwashers. You can buy cheap pre made manifolds and the whole lot will run very well. try keep your manifold and valves above the ground against a fence for easy of repair and maintance. When choosing a controller, always select one that has a function that adjusts the time each section is on with the push of a button. Often called "seasonal adjust" and is shown as a % symbol. very water wise Yes it is a small system on a small block but if you want it to work well, just automate it Re: Drip irrigation on a slope 15Nov 28, 2009 11:48 am What would be a good idea is to also get your plumber to install a 200mm copper line with a spud rather than a tap. That is just a threaded outlet. That way you have the best flow available. Pressure and flow will be different things and this is why i say not to get a little copper pipe with a normal garden tap. Re: Drip irrigation on a slope 16Nov 29, 2009 9:50 am Quote: Even if your property is small, using a manual tap set up is not advised. The system can become wasteful of water very easily regardless of the irrigation types used if there is no automated regulation of the water. ..... Yes it is a small system on a small block but if you want it to work well, just automate it It was my intention to automate it, but to run it off a second tap. (In my back yard, where I intend later to also install an automatic drip system, I already have the second tap.) So installing the tap is just a convenience. Quote: What would be a good idea is to also get your plumber to install a 200mm copper line with a spud rather than a tap. That is just a threaded outlet. That way you have the best flow available. Pressure and flow will be different things and this is why i say not to get a little copper pipe with a normal garden tap. I don't think pressure is a problem. We are in a high pressure area of Sydney where the Water Board is undertaking a pressure reduction program. I will have to install pressure reduction valves anyway. The front tap is right next to my water meter at the entry to the property. Re: Drip irrigation on a slope 17Nov 29, 2009 5:54 pm The flow will be different to the pressure. ie. how much water will be available to supply the emmiters of your system. The pressure that it is forced in there is different. So try to have a 20mm copper pipe supplying the system rather than a normal 15mm pipe that is used inside and for garden taps. Re: Drip irrigation on a slope 18Dec 07, 2009 9:20 pm I have lots of photos to upload but photo bucket isn't too flash any more This is one I had posted here before somewhere. It shows all the bits making a manifold. I had the filter mounted above ground for ease of access for cleaning. There is now a fence in that spot. http://i308.photobucket.com/albums/kk321/FuManchu5ltr/manifoldandfilter.jpg Hi all I am looking to run a water line under my concrete footpath which is directly next to my home, was seeing if this is possible without cutting the entire section… 0 20180 Hi Brainstrust, I had a go at creating my own irrigation plan, keen to get some feedback. It will be run from one 750-800W pump, off 2* 5000L rain tanks. Each zone… 0 22758 A survey must’ve completed by a certified surveyor. This form part of every DA requirement 3 223606 |