Appropriate turf for Melbourne

Fu,
Just stubbled across this blog. you're going to have some very disappointed people with zoysia in shade in Victoria.
Planting zoysia in melbourne in winter, forget it. Don't believe everything from Ozbreed, the next thing you'll be telling people is their new couch and kikuyu is better than buffalo or zoysia.

What I mention of Zoysia in no way is from any information provided by Ozbreed. The information I post about this turf is from my experience with it, some of what the licenced growers are learning about it and from feedback from industry people who know a whole lot about turf. It is currently being studied at Murdoch uni here in WA and the trials have been very successful. I'd recommend Palmetto and SirWalter if the ozbreed info was accurate Not many that stay nice-ish at all in winter / early spring anywhere in Southern Australia.

The temps in Melbourne are not the issue with the success of this turf. The key to it's success is soil preparation. With out that, your comments may be valid, but valid in many areas including parts of SW WA and southern WA. It has been grown in Albany and used in many SW projects with great success and the temps and conditions there are very cold.

I have found that the feedback about my use of it has been a small benefit to our WA growers. I am assured it is a performer in central and highland Victoria as well. However planting in winter over there, maybe a fair point, plant in the warmer months, however once established expect it to be very resilient in comparison to the soft leaf buffalos.

As for what I think of couch, hhmmmmmm. Is it worth using? An outdated turf in WA for use by low end landscapers doing jobs on the cheap. (IMO.)

Talking to a chap here in WA the other day who laid turf for 20 years. No longer rates couches. Is happy with Buffalo but laid some Zoysia a few times in recent years. Very impressed and it has been the only turf he saw loaded with worms in the soil around the roots as they were laying it. Best turf he has laid.

We got the turf laid last Friday. and guess what there were plenty of earthworms on the root side but I also found several live lawn beetles
Rang the turf supplier who mentioned that they were aware of the problem and that theturf has been treated.
Does this treatment last for the entire life cycle? What happens to the next generation?? ie if the beetles have laid eggs ?
Any suggestions Fu?
cheers
vp

Fu,
The comments from your mate (20 yrs experience) about zoysia;

'Very impressed and it has been the only turf he saw loaded with worms in the soil around the roots as they were laying it. Best turf he has laid.'

Does that mean the worms are attracted to Zoysia or he's been using other suppliers that grow on non-organic soils without any worms?

Looking forward to the data from UWA regarding zoysias shade tolerance, drought tolerance compared with water usage (big difference if you haven't got retic and zero irrigation) and winter colour.

You should put the data and growers experiences that comes out of WA into perspective when comparing to the eastern states.
sand vs clay
winter rain vs summer rain
shorter dormancy vs longer
etc

Comparing Albany to Melbourne is like Sydney to Canberra.

110% behind you on the biggest shortcoming of any lawn is the neglect in preparation.
110% about all warm season grasses looking poor in winter in cold climates.

'Brown is Green' for lawns in cold areas in winter, the fescues and ryes are gone forever.

But zoysia isn't the answer either, many WA growers tried them before, most southern east coast growers are pulling them out (too many warranty jobs, not the cost of production compared with other varieties). I see alot laid on highways and parks in NSW, dead if laid in winter. In domestic homes (if laid in spring), good until an extended dry spell, winter or the trees grow and shade it out.

By the way, I've been laying grass for 35yrs and have seen alot of worms on alot of turf.

Hey Grasshopper,

I'm always keen to listen to numerous opinions/experiences.

It seems you have a lot of experinces with regard to turf, given that, what is your recommendation for the best turf to lay in SE Melb?

(I was considering Sir Walter or Empire Z)

Well then we will settle on a difference of opinion and there sure is nothing wrong with that
As for worms, well they aren't as common here as they were in in Vicco.

Having lived in Melbourne and spent a heap of time in and around Albany I can very much compare the climates. Albany maybe not as hot in summer though but as for cold, well it is bloody crispy there in winter and early spring just as much as I recall Melbourne.

I have been doing a little experiment of my own with the Zoysia here. I have had two rolls laying on my front path. That means they have been walked on almost everyday. Each gets different conditions. One in a fair bit of sun and one in shade almost always. Now they have both been there and remained fantastic for nearly two months. In that time they have received no water other than rain and experienced two frosts. The edges have died back but these are not planted on soil so that is fine. I will try include photos of these that I took a few days ago. For those that say we get no frosts in Perth or on the coast, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrS7sHfswkU

Oh and I have been laying turf for 15 years however it hasn't always been a full time job for me, more something that is part of my job.

Hi grasshopper & Fu

A couple of things re warm season grasses in melb from my experience, the turf companies strongly recommend not laying any of the warm season grasses in vic during winter/early spring due to them all dying. That includes SW. A friend of mine wants san anna couch but lilydale turf won't even sell it to him till mid october. SW and kiku are good to go only now, on their recommendations. ALso we don't get much rain in summer in vic, couple of thunderstorms etc. Last year we went nearly 3 months without a drop, very perth like. Compared to East coast where it rains alot in summer. My parents live in mildura where its stinkingly hot in summer and regular frosts and minus temps in winter. They can only grow warm season up their due to the lack of rainfall & heat, eg 200mm a year. Everybody's lawn is brown as straw for winter and early spring. All the regular warm season grasses thrive in summer tho. I can't see how zoysia will be any different.

BTW its funny Kiku performs amazing in winter down here, my neighbours lawn was really green compared to the couch and sir walter lawns near by. Seems if you keep the beast of a lawn in check it performs very very well, excellent winter colour and bounces back from drought very fast. Can see why a lot of people have stuck with it, lots of maintence but nearly a true green lawn all year.

JML,
call Lillydale instant lawns, they are licenced to grow Sir Walter, Palmetto and Empire Z, also grow Santa Anna and Kikuyu. They are honest people, my son worked there part time while attending RMIT in Melbourne. I think they have stopped planting Empire, but continue with the other varieties.

Beatrixkiddo,
I think the main reason the turf farms shy away from winter warm season grass plantings is that warm season grasses are relatively new to the Vic market. Most customers/gardeners aren't educated on the difference from Fescue yet, so treat them the same and have many failures.
There is a difference between warm season (SW, kikuyu, couch etc) grasses and Zoysia which is an asian grass (related to the bamboo family). Don't get me wrong, a great grass but in the right place. It's all in the timing and preparation (see Fu's tips).
As far as winter colour is concerned, it's relative to where you live and what you're use to. I'm used to a brown lawn in winter that doesn't need any water in summer. WA want a lawn that will survive with minimal retic in summer. Vic's are slowly changing from a green lawn in winter that needs a heap of water in summer to a brown/greenish lawn in winter that only needs a bit of water in summer.
The following depends on your interpretation of; drought tolerance, winter colour, ease of maintanence, acceptable appearance and when you want to use your lawn.
Kikuyu, again it depends on where you are and what you expect from a lawn. it recovers quick when it rains, needs more water in summer than couch or SW, needs more fertiliser than SW, looks untidy if you miss a mow, very invasive into gardens and everywhere in general. (it's good cow feed and cheap to use around subdivisions for erosion control where I am and a weed in Qld)
Winter colour, no warm season grass will have winter colour down south unless it is healthy in autumn. Feed your lawn around Easter, don't mow too low and you won't get the weeds in spring that come with an unhealthy lawn.
On the subject of lawns looking good in frosted areas, it's not the frost that makes them brown, it's the morning sun. Look at any lawn (or part there of) that is protected till 8am from the sun, I'll guarantee it's still green if it was healthy going into winter.

Fu,
Hope your 2 roll Zoysia trial goes well. I've heard from friends that there has been very good rain in WA over the last 2 months, so they'll survive a bit longer now.
How much root extension have you got on the Empire? Hope to hear how the shady one goes through next winter, or are we talking 'summer shade' not 'winter shade'?
cheers,

Hey grasshopper,

Thanks for all the advice and opinions. I grew up with ol skool buffalo, couches and kik, i hadn't actually had much to do with fescues till reaching melb. After 13 years of drought i believe a lot of people in melb just want a lawn they can keep green in summer, when they can use it. Personally I don't care about brown/green lawn in winter and prefer not to have to mow a soggy fescue blend every 2 weeks in winter. What i am after is a turf that will have plenty of sun in summer, (north facing) part shade in winter, not stupidly invasive eg couch or Kik, lower fertiliser and mowing requirements and bugger all water requirement. We have no lawn watering in melb, so about 20-25ml a week through a combo of greywater/rainwater tank and actual rain is the most it would get. Zoysia up to now seemed the perfect choice, cheaper than sir walter, and from the pics a nicer looking grass (finer leaf), slower growing/less mowing. So what do think? I grew up with old buffalo and hated it, once dad put in santa anna it was heaven. The new buffalo's look exactly the same as the old stuff minus the itch factor. True you are about the sun frost thing too, i have seen it at my parents, i though it was because the lawn was sheltered from frost. Interesting.

Thanks Grasshopper,

I am not too concerned with winter brown, I enjoy my grass in the summer. I currently have Santa Anna and love it in the summer but I have had problems with winter grass and weeds invading it during winter.

I am currently building again on 1/4 acre and will have upwards of 400sqm of lawn required so it's important I get my choice right first time

If you had to choose between Empire Z and SW Buffalo what would it be?

Hi BK
I have the same thoughts re buffalo kiks and couches.
I am happy with my decision of E-Z laid last Friday.
It is still recovering from the transplantation shock. I really love the texture. narrow blade width and soft feel underfoot. we managed to do it ourselves with few helpers and cost us 1.5 K all up for 125 sqm. I think this is good value compared to landscapers quoting 3.5 K for cheaper varieties.
good luck

Hi vp,

Thanks for the input. How green is your empire now btw and has it started to root down? It only came out of dormancy recently according to HG when i spoke to them a month ago so it would be interesting to hear. Been a very cold few weeks in melb.

Cheers, BK

Hi BK
The rolls were a bit dry in one palett but the others were green and moist.
After laying it looked quite brown in many areas with curled leaves. some borders went brown too.
Rang HG turf to check whether it was effect of beetle treatment. they mentioned about transplanting shock. the last 2 days of rain and cold has actually made the turf appearing greenest since laying (day 5) and also the curled leaves have now opened up and appear normal.
so far so good!

Good to hear vp. I think i might lay down just a bit to see how it goes, if it takes well over summer then i will do the rest. Plus i have only 2000L of water atm. Sounds promising if its nice and green already.

We have had below average rainfall but a lot of rain days. It didn't start as a proper trial. I just chucked them there after a job. Then they just kept growing and got better and then a little worse and then recovered so I got a photo. Now I think after this week they'll finally be knackered.

I have a fair bit to do with turf and I'd never see that from rolls of couch or buffalo. (maybe not as much as grasshopper)

Fu,
no worries, besides laying turf , i've been growing it for 25yrs, for me it's all observation (like you). what works works, what doesn't doesn't, but as we both know there are so many variables that the average punter doesn't realise the subtle differences in varieties or causes of problems through soil, climate, weather etc.
Sometimes the turf farms rely on-'the best grass is the one that he has the most stock of', that only works in the short term. Sometimes they flog off a variety that they got a licence to grow (typically USA varieties, in NSW or HG changing from Sapphire to Kings Pride), planted heaps but found they don't perform, so it takes years to sell then replant.
I'm becoming increasingly worried how 'internet solutions' that appear on blogs and then become gospel, because they are written. The same thing happened with magazines that were published in a region but distributed nationally. eg articules on seeding lawns (written in Vic) that NSW & Qld people thought would work for them............wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!
The best thing for the turf/lawn industry is/was the drought from hell, warm season grasses are being recognised as a solution to a sustainable environment for our kids everywhere. Our enemy is pavers, not other grass varieties, the perfect grass hasn't been found/developed yet. I'm a bit biased, because at the moment soft leaf buffalos perform in most places, they can survive everywhere in Australia. SW is the only turf variety that is available everywhere in Oz, from Darwin to Hobart. Every variety has its shortcomings (including SW), and I think (nationally) zoysia (whether Empire, ZT11 or empress, more to come see IP australia PBR web site) has more problems than the buffalos.
I'm fortunate to travel every year , at least once, to around 50 turf farms from Darwin, Perth, Adelaide, melbourne, Hobart, Sydney, Brisbane and Cairns etc (OK i'm a sick individual). When I travel I go to any new subdivisions in the area and look at what is performing in a home lawn situation, noting the weather and listening to the local growers for seasonal irregularities.
My money is on Buffalo at the moment, from my experience zoysia isn't the 'shade tolerant' grass it's supposed to be and takes too long to establish.
These days, house blocks are getting smaller, homes bigger, more shade and traffic on the available lawn area available.

Makes sence? cheers,
Grasshopper

your points about growers flogging what is cheap to produce at the expense of what is best to sell or was it what they have loads of is right on the money. No doubt you will have searched many of my posts and you would see that that is a point i bring up on not just turf varieties but plants too. The public won't be aware of deals or advertising dollars paid to garden shows to promote certain plants or create a public interest in a certain plant so garden centres start ordering or buying.

I am an avid weather buff and year after year i now watch summer storms approach our metro area from the North in summer watch them just vaporise as they reach the metro area. The radar shows it really well. The force field we call it, but as you would know heat soak is a major cause of microclimate change for our cities and paving and Mc mansions contribute to that. All this synthetic turf and paving holds so much heat that it is stopping valuable summer rainfall in metro areas, of course some more than others.

As for travelling around to different growers, well I do the same for landscapes and nurseries when ever I go anywhere parks and gardens, garden centres wholesale nurseries etc The scope for learning is much greater I guess by doing that.

Righto,

I have finally got some empire on order to lay next wenesday now i have some time. I have decided to go with a small patch and see how it goes through summer to summer and then look at doing the rest next year. Plus i don't have enough tanks to do much more. Looking foward to the fun soil prep. Funnily when i was speaking to the turf guy he had never sold any zoysia, and his recommendation for Melb was kikuyu, buffalo/couch browned off/too slow out of dormancy in melb suburbs. Pretty much exactly what i see in the houses near me. He is getting a few rolls in with my order to check out how they go as well. Will update in a week.